#5
Tree stump.
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#7
I'd have to go with glue.
That's right, glue.

Glue is a great vibration insulator, which is why if one had a bolt on strat and a set neck strat, the bolt on would have very slightly better sustain.

Ok, seriously, I'd have to go with cheap low grade plywood like the stuff used in the lowest of low end guitars.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#8
oak. seriously i want to try making a guitar from oak and see what happens.
#10
MDF That is seriously dead. Oak is used for acoustics sometimes and is not far off Spruce. Willow has, I'm told, a very dark tone but is a bit soft for the job.
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#11
Quote by ghiyath
oak. seriously i want to try making a guitar from oak and see what happens.

Isn't Brian Mays guitar made from oak?
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#12
glued Alder/plywood.

GLUE.
"Black gives way to more black."




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Also, I like black.


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#14
Quote by oneblackened
I'd have to go with glue.
That's right, glue.

Glue is a great vibration insulator, which is why if one had a bolt on strat and a set neck strat, the bolt on would have very slightly better sustain.

Ok, seriously, I'd have to go with cheap low grade plywood like the stuff used in the lowest of low end guitars.


That is not 100% true. I have a Esp that is bolt on, and I have a Razorback V/ and a schecter c7fr that is set, The razorback and schecter sustains a lot longer than the esp.

For the OP plywood.
#15
It depends on what you consider "tonewood". There are some brands that advertise "tonewood" bodies and they are made of plywood. These have the least resonance of any so-called "tonewood" that I've ever worked with. Coming in second place would be basswood. Please keep in mind that less resonance from the wood is not a bad thing. Part of the reason basswood is so popular is because it lets the pickups do more of the tone shaping which is exactly what artists like Steve Vai want. The problem with plywood isn't that it lacks resonance, the problem is that it dampens vibrations and kills dynamics due to the lost energy in the layers of glue.


I'm sure there are woods out there that kill resonance more than basswood, but they are not common for guitars.
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#16
Quote by DimeLvR
That is not 100% true. I have a Esp that is bolt on, and I have a Razorback V/ and a schecter c7fr that is set, The razorback and schecter sustains a lot longer than the esp.

For the OP plywood.


Errr yeah... in terms of sustain...

neck thru > set neck > bolt on

also, yes... plywood ftl
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#18
Blaming glue for plywood's non-resonance isn't entirely accurate! Plywood uses cross lamination for strength (ie grains run in opposite directions (90 Degree) on each suceeding layer. This would definitely kill vibrations more than glue. It's alos why plywod makes good speaker cabinet material.
On a side note if glue were an issue then all laminated necks would suck which they don't.
Moving on.....
#19
Quote by ragingkitty
Errr yeah... in terms of sustain...

neck thru > set neck > bolt on

also, yes... plywood ftl


Neck construction doesn't affect sustain. So I don't see why it's argued. Sustain is affected majorly by the weight of the guitar and the type of wood it is made out of. That's why you'll see Les Pauls sustain longer than SGs.
Last edited by FallsDownStairs at Oct 9, 2009,
#21
Quote by DimeLvR
That is not 100% true. I have a Esp that is bolt on, and I have a Razorback V/ and a schecter c7fr that is set, The razorback and schecter sustains a lot longer than the esp.

For the OP plywood.

There's so much more to sustain than the neck joint. Sustain is overrated anyway.
Quote by lizarday
oh yeah? well larry king the slayer guitarist owns bc rich guitars. (i think)
#22
^ +1
Ageed, poor sustain is probably much more of an issue than greater than normal sustain. With few people playing clean here on UG (majority appears to be metal) sustain is more likely to come from effects anyway.
Moving on.....
#23
Quote by KenG
Blaming glue for plywood's non-resonance isn't entirely accurate! Plywood uses cross lamination for strength (ie grains run in opposite directions (90 Degree) on each suceeding layer. This would definitely kill vibrations more than glue. It's alos why plywod makes good speaker cabinet material.
On a side note if glue were an issue then all laminated necks would suck which they don't.



The cross lamination is true for some plywood but not all. I've had 2 guitars, 1 epi and 1 bc rich, that used plywood bodies that was not cross laminated. It's actually quite common for laminated acoustic bodies too. I've heard acoustic luthiers refer to it as wacky wood and BC rich used to have their own name for it too but can't remember what it was.

The problem with laminated bodies is to do with just out much glue is in there. When you are laminating the body like it's a sandwich the surface area for the glue joints is HUGE while the gluing surface in laminated necks is relatively small. There are other things to consider too but it's hard to explain them without drawing pics and I don't have time for that.

Quote by FallsDownStairs
Neck construction doesn't affect sustain. So I don't see why it's argued. Sustain is affected majorly by the weight of the guitar and the type of wood it is made out of. That's why you'll see Les Pauls sustain longer than SGs.



Put a C clamp on the headstock of your guitar and you will quickly change your mind about neck construction and tone. More weight and placement of weight in a headstock changes the way the neck vibrates and not only does that change sustain but it also changes tone.

The whole which neck joint is best thing is over rated but there is a lot more to neck construction than that. I've done tests with different neck joint that required me to build a guitar specifically for the test and the results said there were no audible differences between set and bolt on necks even if there was a measurable difference. It's very small and I agree that THAT doesn't matter.
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Last edited by CorduroyEW at Oct 9, 2009,
#24
People say agathis is a pretty dead tonewood, but i dont think it is...
Well... its better than plywood, its like a lower grade mahogany (sometimes its even better than mahogany)
#25
Quote by ragingkitty
Errr yeah... in terms of sustain...

neck thru > set neck > bolt on

also, yes... plywood ftl

...Nope.
The difference, if all other things are equal, is negligible. Also known as, you can't hear it. The construction quality of the joint matters a whole lot more than the type of joint.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#26
Quote by tomislav12

I think that it's basswood, however i havent tried a basswod guitar.
Why are you asking, I wonder...



You haven't tried it but you think it's basswood ... So why are you saying it's basswood if you HAVEN'T tried it?? Because you've heard people here on UG say they don't like basswood. Do you know why they say that? Might it be because it's fairly soft and gets dented and beat up easily? Would it be because it's not very pretty looking so it's always painted. It's cheap and Lord knows cheap stuff can't sound good? If you do decide to try a basswood guitar before you start posting opinions you may find it sounds pretty good.
#27
basswood for a tonewood it's quite neutral for resonance but it makes pups speak for themselves.
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#28
Quote by BobDetroit
You haven't tried it but you think it's basswood ... So why are you saying it's basswood if you HAVEN'T tried it?? Because you've heard people here on UG say they don't like basswood. Do you know why they say that? Might it be because it's fairly soft and gets dented and beat up easily? Would it be because it's not very pretty looking so it's always painted. It's cheap and Lord knows cheap stuff can't sound good? If you do decide to try a basswood guitar before you start posting opinions you may find it sounds pretty good.


+1

I have a Schecter Omen-6 with a basswood body and it sounds spectacular, clean or distorted. (it's also because of the SD Invader in the bridge XD)
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#29
Quote by CorduroyEW
"The cross lamination is true for some plywood but not all. ................"
"
The very definition of plywood is that it's layers of cross laminated wood.
Wood that is not cross laminated is just "laminated" wood not plywood. It might be more correct to just stop mis-naming laminated bodies as plywood.
I too once was foolish enough to own a real plywood body (Taro Les Paul mid 70's).
Gibson Les Paul (known good sustainer, Maple cap suface glued onto mahogany body) with glued set neck. Ebony or Rosewood fingerboard, surface glued onto neck. Neck Thru body construction - laminated body wings (Sometimes multiple species eg Old Ibanez, Alembics etc). All glued and all work well. Violins , Cellos etc - all Glued.


Quote by CorduroyEW
"The problem with laminated bodies is to do with just out much glue is in there......
"
This may be a factor but again you're not looking deep enough..... Laminated bodies are often from totally different pieces of raw stock so density and therefore resonance can vary greatly between the individual peices. Glueing them together could never make a good resonator because changes in density can cause reflection or absorbsion of the wave(s). I believe this is demonstrated in physics quite well with other materials.
Moving on.....
Last edited by KenG at Oct 10, 2009,
#30
Quote by tomislav12

I think that it's basswood, however i havent tried a basswod guitar.
Why are you asking, I wonder...

I guess that's why Vai, Satch, Petrucci, Gilbert, and EVH play basswood guitars. Vai, Satch, Gilbert, and Petrucci all used PAF Pros at some point and got completely different results so I wouldn't say that it let's the pickups create most of the tone. Especially since PAF Pros are very transparent. I find that its character is defined by the player instead of the guitar. No matter how/what you play on a strat or Les Paul, it sounds like a strat or Les Paul. Basswood doesn't have that trait. How you play makes a bigger impact in tone. That creates a few problems in basswood's reputation. The first is that there are two very different levels. There's cheap basswood and expensive basswood, no in-between. You'll either spend around less than $400 or more than $1000 and there's a big difference between them. The second is that they usually make the cheaper guitars out of them. But the qualities of basswood are not good for a beginner because they're not skilled enough to make it sound good. I think it's more musical than other woods. It lacks the grind of mahogany and the bite of alder which leaves a very smooth tone. It's very neutral with a strong fundamental tone that cuts through the mix very well. It resonates just fine.
#31
Quote by KenG
"
The very definition of plywood is that it's layers of cross laminated wood.
Wood that is not cross laminated is just "laminated" wood not plywood. It might be more correct to just stop mis-naming laminated bodies as plywood.
I too once was foolish enough to own a real plywood body (Taro Les Paul mid 70's).
Gibson Les Paul (known good sustainer, Maple cap suface glued onto mahogany body) with glued set neck. Ebony or Rosewood fingerboard, surface glued onto neck. Neck Thru body construction - laminated body wings (Sometimes multiple species eg Old Ibanez, Alembics etc). All glued and all work well. Violins , Cellos etc - all Glued.


"
This may be a factor but again you're not looking deep enough..... Laminated bodies are often from totally different pieces of raw stock so density and therefore resonance can vary greatly between the individual peices. Glueing them together could never make a good resonator because changes in density can cause reflection or absorbsion of the wave(s). I believe this is demonstrated in physics quite well with other materials.

Different dictionaries define plywood in different ways

A structural material made of layers of wood glued together, usually with the grains of adjoining layers at right angles to each other.


The word "usually" would indicate that it isn't always made in layers adjacent to each other.

Other dictionaries use a definition more like this

a structural material consisting of sheets of wood glued or cemented together with the grains of adjacent layers arranged at right angles or at a wide angle


So one indicates that it has to be glued with adjacent layers while the other says it doesn't. I don't know the "proper" definition of plywood because I'm not one of the linguists that make up definitions of this kind of stuff but dictionaries do support my idea of plywood. It's become a generic term now days so even if I were technically wrong, and some dictionaries say I'm not, people still know what I mean.

I have a comeback for your second argument as well. What works on paper doesn't work in the real world. If it did people would not be using valve amps, we would not be using alnico magnets in our pickups, and guitars would not even be made out of wood!

Making pickups and amps for a living I record the frequency response of my products and I can guarantee you that what people hear is not what the products are producing. On top of that, there are measurable differences in laminate birch and pine (two wood I use for cabinets) and the solid veriaties. The laminates have fewer overtones, the opposite of what you insinuated, and do not ring out as loud. They also ecay much quicker. It thuds and goes out rather than echoing. This is something that has been done in labs and in the music rooms of musicians.

To some it all up. You are talking out your ass.
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Last edited by CorduroyEW at Oct 10, 2009,
#33
MDF is probably the worst.

Or even LDF.

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#34
I have an old basswood japanese Jackson that is more resonant than all of my guitars with the exception of my Tele. It all depends on the piece of wood, finish, construction, etc. I have guitars made of mahogany, walnut, ash, alder and basswood.
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