#1
Can a chord be a chord without it being its root note?

Like in 2 minutes to midnight by Maiden, It has this chord:

-------
---6---
---5---
---7---
---0
-------


It has the exact same notes as F major, but its root note is A... Wtf? Can it be an F without F being its root?

Also, bit nooby, but is this classed as achord? If not, what is it?
-----
-----
--5--
--5--
-----
-----

Not just that one, but ones like that in general, like
7
7 etc.
Last edited by Lollage123 at Oct 11, 2009,
#3
that would be a chord inversion,
as long as it has at least three notes, its a chord

edit: thats a first inversion if the third is the root
#4
Yes, it's still an F. It's called a chord inversion.

The second thing is a power chord, but, once again, the notes are inverted. In your example, it's a C power chord. You might hear people calling that kind of shape a "double stop".
#5
That would be a F chord in first inversion, because the third is in the bass. Chords with bass notes other than the root are usually notated as Chord name/bass note. In this example as F/A.

The second would be an inverted C5 diad.
Quote by thsrayas
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You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
Last edited by 7even at Oct 11, 2009,
#6
The lowest note is not always the root note. The root note is the note that the chord is built off of, the bass note is the lowest note in the chord. When then bass note isn't the root note (relatively common) it's called an inversion.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#8
How would you know that its a chord inversion? Or would it be enharmonic if I called that a Amin+w/e a major 6th is from root
#9
You would know the same way you knew that was an F major chord over an A bass. (Even if you didn't know the term for it - you still recognized that it was an F major chord over a different bass note )

You would write it F/A (F major over an A bass). Sometimes you have a choice of names. Just do your best to describe what is happening in the music and what the chord is trying to achieve in context. (And remember simplicity is often the best way to go).

One interesting inversion is an add 6 chord and a m7 with a root a minor third below (major sixth above). One is an inversion of the other.
For example...
C6 = C E G A
Am7 = A C E G

Sorry it's not much help.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Oct 11, 2009,
#10
Quote by Thepredster
How would you know that its a chord inversion? Or would it be enharmonic if I called that a Amin+w/e a major 6th is from root


If the root of the chord isn't in the bass.
For example:
FMaj7 :F A C E
But an inverted chord wouldn't have the F in the bass
So you could have A C E F, it's still an FMaj7 but the F isn't in the bass. That would be written as FMaj7/A by the way.
#11
Quote by NoOne0507
If the root of the chord isn't in the bass.
For example:
FMaj7 :F A C E


What?
Quote by NoOne0507

But an inverted chord wouldn't have the F in the bass
So you could have A C E F, it's still an FMaj7 but the F isn't in the bass. That would be written as FMaj7/A by the way.

Yeah...so how would you know if its inverted? Or is it done for the sake of simplicity. Even tho I guess what 20tigers posted makes the most sense-Context.
#12
You know it's an inversion because of maj,min,min,maj,maj,min,dim.
Boncing off of open A, E or drop D tuning is pretty standard or basic for metal.

The root note dosn't always have to be the lowest pitch.
The example you showed use the octive as the root.

Yes, for simplicity or tone.
Songs such as Tuss by ZZtop or Cat Scratch fever (bending the chord).
Running with the devil or Let me put my love into you. (other then the 5th)

Sometimes you'll also see chores such as these.... Amin/G
You play the alternative root note

FACEGBDFACE..it's just every other note.

ACE= Amin....lol
CEG= Cmaj
DFA=Dmin
EGB=Emin
Last edited by 12notes at Oct 12, 2009,
#13
Quote by 7even
That would be a F chord in first inversion, because the third is in the bass. Chords with bass notes other than the root are usually notated as Chord name/bass note. In this example as F/A.

The second would be an inverted C5 diad.


This.
#14
When asking how do you know if it's inverted, are you asking how would you know when reading a chord chart if you should play it in root position or first inversion or second inversion etc? If so then you would assume it is in root position (the root is also the bass) unless it is noted with a / as in F/A (F major over an A bass).

Another way it might be notated by using what's called "figured bass" where the bass note is on a staff and numbers are written underneath to indicate the intervals to be played above the root. Or the numbers will be written next to a letter the letter indicating the bass note and the numbers indicate the intervals to be played over the bass note.

So a first inversion of a chord the third will be the bass note the fifth will be a third above the bass and the root of the chord will be a sixth above the bass note. So the bass note will be written with a subscript 3 and superscript 6 next to it. Often though the third and fifth are assumed so just the sixth will be written.

In second inversion the fifth of the chord will be the bass note. The root will be a fourth above the bass note and the third of the chord is a sixth above the bass so the bass will be given with a subscript 4 and a superscript 6.

Here's a couple examples. The first is simply how inversions work... (you can also invert seventh chords to get a "third" inversion but this picture just shows triads to keep it simple...



In this example we see figured bass, the numbers in parenthesis are often not notated as they are simply assumed (that's why they're in parenthesis).


For more on inversions I stole those pictures from this site (I haven't read the site just did a google search for images, but it seems fairly comprehensive).

If instead you're asking how do you know by looking at TAB or sheet music that it's an inversion. In that case the answer from my last post stands, the same way you recognized that initial chord was an F major chord but with an A bass note.

Hope that helps.

Peace
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Oct 12, 2009,
#15
I understand, but what is this? Itsn ot an inverted Power chord because the note on the G string would be on the sixth fret..
-----
--7--
--7--
-----
-----
-----
#16
Quote by Lollage123
I understand, but what is this? Itsn ot an inverted Power chord because the note on the G string would be on the sixth fret..
-----
--7--
--7--
-----
-----
-----

That's an inverted D5 dyad.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#17
Quote by 7even
That's an inverted D5 dyad.

But the notes are D and F#, can you explain more, it doesnt add up in my brain
#18
Quote by Lollage123
But the notes are D and F#, can you explain more, it doesnt add up in my brain

Oh i read the chart wrong. That's a D major dyad. My apologies.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#19
Quote by 7even
Oh i read the chart wrong. That's a D major dyad. My apologies.
to add to that: It's also notated D(no5) indicating that it's a D major except without the 5.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#20
Quote by food1010
to add to that: It's also notated D(no5) indicating that it's a D major except without the 5.

Although that is implied when talking about dyads.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#22
Quote by Lollage123
Anyone??

Yes?
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#23
Quote by food1010
to add to that: It's also notated D(no5) indicating that it's a D major except without the 5.


The omission of the fifth is so common, that its hardly worth writing, unless its absolutely imperative that it not be there. Usually if you see just D written, you can choose how you want to play it. The root and third have to be in some instrument, but the fifth does not. The guitarist is usually free to invert chords as they wish, as the bassist will be playing the bass note.
#24
Quote by Lollage123
I understand, but what is this? Itsn ot an inverted Power chord because the note on the G string would be on the sixth fret..
-----
--7-- = F♯
--7-- = D
-----
-----
-----

It's a Major third.

A double stop.

Could be part of, or suggesting, a D major, or a Bm, or a GMaj7, (or a bunch of other possibilities) depending on the context you use it in.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Oct 12, 2009,