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#1
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/science/space/13lhc.html

TLDR: Physicists suggest that nature, the future or what have you will not allow the LHC to find a "higgs particle". The entire point of the LHC recreating big bang like scenarios is to find/produce said "higgs particle".


Personally, I think that an anthropic view on this situation may be very valid.

DivinEdit: After having time to ponder this and get outside educated opinion, I say the probability of it being anthropic is the same as the moon's gravity causing a tsunami.

However it got me thinking.

What if the LHC did produce a big bang, and said big bang was unable to be controlled. The new big bang "bubble" would be expanding into our universe at the same rate that our universe is expanding into whatever is... outside of it.

What would be inside this new ever-expanding bubble? Logically, it would be a new universe. Which led me to come up with this theory: What if universes aren't arranged by multiple ever-expanding bubbles floating around in a field of who-knows-what, but as bubbles constantly expanding within each other?

Picture a balloon. Said balloon is expanding as a definite rate. The space inside the balloon is a universe. Now, picture another balloon expanding within that first balloon, and the same rate. There would essentially be a universe, within a universe. Now this could happen an infinite number of times.

And say that this theory is correct, it could put an whole new spin on wormholes. That spin being that wormholes could be things that provide you with a way to exit our universe, circumnavigate the outside, and place you at a spot on the complete opposite end of our known universe.
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Divinecrossfire...

Epic post. Wish I could say more, but I don't know much about the subconscious and other psychological stuff.
Last edited by divinecrossfire at Nov 11, 2009,
#3
It's definitely a possibility.
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#4
Quote by divinecrossfire
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/science/space/13lhc.html

TLDR: Physicists suggest that nature, the future or what have you will not allow the LHC to find a "higgs particle". The entire point of the LHC recreating big bang like scenarios is to find/produce said "higgs particle".


Personally, I think that an anthropic view on this situation may be very valid.

However it got me thinking.

What if the LHC did produce a big bang, and said big bang was unable to be controlled. The new big bang "bubble" would be expanding into our universe at the same rate that our universe is expanding into whatever is... outside of it.

What would be inside this new ever-expanding bubble? Logically, it would be a new universe. Which led me to come up with this theory: What if universes aren't arranged by multiple ever-expanding bubbles floating around in a field of who-knows-what, but as bubbles constantly expanding within each other?

Picture a balloon. Said balloon is expanding as a definite rate. The space inside the balloon is a universe. Now, picture another balloon expanding within that first balloon, and the same rate. There would essentially be a universe, within a universe. Now this could happen an infinite number of times.

And say that this theory is correct, it could put an whole new spin on wormholes. That spin being that wormholes could be things that provide you with a way to exit our universe, circumnavigate the outside, and place you at a spot on the complete opposite end of our known universe.


I've seen the balloon analogy on TV a few times. Physicists can't be sure the LHC won't create black holes, but they can't be sure me making a cup of tea won't either. At any rate the conventional theory is that what goes into a black hole pretty much stays there in hugely-compressed form. That's how black holes exist - their mass is made of the things they "eat"
#6
To be honest I don't care.


If they destroy the world we are all going with it. So what is there to worry about really? It isn't like I'm going to die and nobody else will.
#7
Jesus that's trippy.
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#8
LHC isn't capable of creating a black hole on the scale we're so familiar with via popular media. Especially with what they're using it for in the degree of tests. Any sort of "black hole" created would likely collapse in on itself in a negligible amount of time.
#9
thats an interesting post TS. i guess thats possible. theres millions of stars, im sure theres a bunch of universes
#10
i just **** myself
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#11
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It won't let me read the article, not a NYT member

Nor am I.

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In the case of the Higgs and the collider, it is as if something is going back in time to keep the universe from being hit by a bus.

God.
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#12
Quote by daytripper75
To be honest I don't care.


If they destroy the world we are all going with it. So what is there to worry about really? It isn't like I'm going to die and nobody else will.



Yes, but I do care, because I'm still a virgin.

I do not want to die a virgin.
Quote by RedDeath9
Divinecrossfire...

Epic post. Wish I could say more, but I don't know much about the subconscious and other psychological stuff.
Last edited by divinecrossfire at Oct 13, 2009,
#13
its cool but if it makes a black hole, by the time we figure out it made on, we'd all be ****ing dead.
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#14
Quote by -tempest-
thats an interesting post TS. i guess thats possible. theres millions of stars, im sure theres a bunch of universes

Universes=/=galaxies=/=solar systems
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#15
I like the idea of the cards; get a deck of cards, lay them out randomly on a table, and leave the room. Then, have a second person come in, and take the four cards closest to them when they walk into the room. If they get four aces, then there's obviously something up.

Disclaimer: This is just an example.
#16
wow i honestly read "...large hardon collider"

that sounded absolutely hilarious but i'm disappointed now. haha
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#17
Quote by herby190
I like the idea of the cards; get a deck of cards, lay them out randomly on a table, and leave the room. Then, have a second person come in, and take the four cards closest to them when they walk into the room. If they get four aces, then there's obviously something up.

Disclaimer: This is just an example.

How is something up? It's just really, really lucky or it's staged/magic trick.

That's a .0000000024% chance.

Sorry. It's a 0.000000154%
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Last edited by Weeping_Demon7 at Oct 13, 2009,
#18
A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.


Wait, what?
#19
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
How is something up? It's just really, really lucky or it's staged/magic trick.

That's a .0000000024% chance.

Sorry. It's a 0.000000154%
Yeah, but then there won't be any more doubt from the people who believe mother nature is trying to stop it or something from the future or some crazy **** like that.
#20
There can only be one universe. The universe is comprised of all matter that exists. UNI-verse. One. Maybe your bubble thing is right, but call the bubbles something other than universes.

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Last edited by grind at Oct 13, 2009,
#21
Quote by grind
There can only be one universe. The universe is comprised of all matter that exists. UNI-verse. One. Maybe your bubble thing is right, but call the bubbles something other than universes.


Entomology won't help you here, mate.

Universe came from 17th century England before we even knew about the theory of relativity.
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#22
Quote by grind
There can only be one universe. The universe is comprised of all matter that exists. UNI-verse. One. Maybe your bubble thing is right, but call the bubbles something other than universes.


See, I like to look at it like this. Uni means One. Verse means version. One Version.
Our universe is just one version of the many different universes that could be out there.

And to the guy above me, the etymology works out perfectly if you look at the entire word rather than just the prefix.

Disclaimer: I really have no idea what the "verse" part was actually supposed to mean, but having it mean "version" makes my point.


This video will explain what I mean better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ca4miMMaCE
Quote by RedDeath9
Divinecrossfire...

Epic post. Wish I could say more, but I don't know much about the subconscious and other psychological stuff.
Last edited by divinecrossfire at Oct 13, 2009,
#23
Quote by grind
There can only be one universe. The universe is comprised of all matter that exists. UNI-verse. One. Maybe your bubble thing is right, but call the bubbles something other than universes.
Never actually realized that.... both you and your sig win.


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#24
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
Entomology won't help you here, mate.

Universe came from 17th century England before we even knew about the theory of relativity.

I don't see why the study of insects would have helped his case there at all.
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#26
Quote by AzureNight
I love when people who know next to nothing about astrophysics argue about it.



do you know anything about astrophysics?
Quote by RedDeath9
Divinecrossfire...

Epic post. Wish I could say more, but I don't know much about the subconscious and other psychological stuff.
#28
Quote by Avedas
LHC isn't capable of creating a black hole on the scale we're so familiar with via popular media. Especially with what they're using it for in the degree of tests. Any sort of "black hole" created would likely collapse in on itself in a negligible amount of time.



A black hole is simply something INCREDIBLY massive, squished into a tiny space. For example, if the mass of, say, 2 million of our suns was shoved into something the size of a pea, you'd have a black hole. So, collapsing in on itself really isn't a possibility, we're screwed if it does anyway.
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#29
ever think about the universe being like a cell?
there are theories that we are one of infineite universes out there because of the lack of even distribution of natural forces like gravity v magnetism.
back to my point. Imagine the universe being a cell in a collosal organism. by making a cell within a cell what porbably be like cancer so this cell would be killed off somehow
#30
Quote by AzureNight
I love when people who know next to nothing about astrophysics argue about it.


you mean cosmology?
#31
this discussion does not belong in the pit
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#33
IMO: don't **** with big, super powerful magnets that are basically scaring the hell out of most of nature at the moment.
#34
Would you like some more sensationalist-cheese with your propaganda-wine?


#35
I personally dont see any kind of evidence supporting the fact that a particle has enough sentience to go back in time and prevent itself from being made.

That just reeks of bs to me.

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#36
Quote by valennic
I personally dont see any kind of evidence supporting the fact that a particle has enough sentience to go back in time and prevent itself from being made.

That just reeks of bs to me.



most of the article does. the article is bull****, but i still wouldn't mess around with something so massively powerful. when you play with fire, you could get burned.
#37
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
most of the article does. the article is bull****, but i still wouldn't mess around with something so massively powerful. when you play with fire, you could get burned.


Or in this case they could just blow themselves to hell, either way works for me

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VHT Deliverance

#38
Quote by divinecrossfire
TLDR: Physicists suggest that nature, the future or what have you will not allow the LHC to find a "higgs particle".

A completely foolish idea. If mother nature was censoring our discoveries, I think she would've put a stop to the Manhattan Project before we came up with something that could completely restructure her face.

And say that this theory is correct, it could put an whole new spin on wormholes. That spin being that wormholes could be things that provide you with a way to exit our universe, circumnavigate the outside, and place you at a spot on the complete opposite end of our known universe.

This, however, is not foolish. In fact, it makes me excited in all kinds of ways wishing I knew what kinds of long-distance travel the future holds.
#39
or they could blow us all up.
it makes sense, i gues i read a few more articles related to it and it sounds like its having a lot of problems.
and that guy who was suspected of being afiliated with Al Aqaeda
#40
Quote by valennic
Or in this case they could just blow themselves to hell, either way works for me



exactly. messing around with this thing just sounds like a really bad idea. and not only do they want to do it, they want to INCREASE the power later. it just seems to go against common sense.
essentially, this is all i've been hearing from the scientists working on it:

-"so, what's this thing actually going to do?"
-"well, we can't really answer that yet, so lets turn it on and find out "
-"that just sounds like a bad idea"
-"nah, fuck it, this shit happens all the time man lets just give it a quick little test and later we'll turn it up to 11 if all goes well"
-"well, what if it doesn't go well?"
-"it'll go well don't worry"
-"yeah, but what if it DOESN'T? then what?"
-"... don't worry, it'll be fine, come on lets go play with it"
"i don't know man, this thing sounds like it could have some negative consequences"
"well we wont know till we turn it on will we? "


Quote by archangels666



This, however, is not foolish. In fact, it makes me excited in all kinds of ways wishing I knew what kinds of long-distance travel the future holds.



also, this.

has anyone actually looked at how much money it cost to build this thing? it cost BILLIONS. this is money that could have developed us a ****ing warp drive or something by now, so we actually COULD be out exploring.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Oct 13, 2009,
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