#1
Well hello. I am predominately a " critter " of works so I thought it's about time I actually contribute. * written in 20 minutes last morning *


No doubt


Very edited.

This torn and tattered city
run by force and fear,
young men slave for their family's food
wishing they weren't here.

These dirty dwellers of the streets
are minority no more,
priests in whites, are starting fights
and honesty's a flaw.


The sun sets behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
it's winter now and oppressively cold
yet young bodies lie still and bare.

All crits are welcome, this is in it's developing stage - I intend on adding a few more verses.
a little lost.....
Last edited by Davo Ownz at Oct 15, 2009,
#2
Quote by Davo Ownz


This beautiful city
has been torn to the ground,
searching for justice,
not an inkling to be found.

I really despised your second and fourth lines. "Has been torn to the ground" invokes an image of a city collapsed, not a city that has become corrupt. For your last line, its very obvious to me that you were trying damn hard to rhyme. Sure... it fits. I concede that; but it doesn't develop anything. We got the idea that justice wasn't abundant by the fact people were searching for it. Also, your first line... while I suppose it does its job of introducing the idea, doesn't have a whole lot of "grab" effect. It doesn't envelop me at all.

The "dirty children" of the streets
are minority no more,
pacifists are starting fights'
now honesty's a flaw.

This didn't hit well either, I'm afraid. First off, don't "" dirty children. This is poetry/music... we get that you are using symbols and metaphors. I like the idea of the first two lines... but didn't like the execution. There is a saying in poetry, "show me, don't tell me." here you are announcing everything, like an announcer to a sporting event. "Dave has the ball. Dave passes the ball. Dave picks his ass." Poetry and lyrics are 'word-art.' Use your words to sculpt images in my head. Don't tell me the bums aren't a minority anymore, tell me about closing malls, tell me about ratty clothing, tell me about your average mom dumpster diving... show me what's going on by image. Your third line is solid; and the idea of your fourth is solid too. I felt like those two didn't jive together well though.


A man has fallen from a height
but people pass him by,
oblivious to his pain
they've got money on their eyes.

This stanza is the low point to me. The fallen man... umm, ok? Where the **** did that come from? I know you are using it as an example... but that's dramatic... you better give me some info about it. To be perfectly honest, I didn't find much I did like in this stanza. Your third line completely ruins whatever mood you had going; your first two lines seem a bit "out there" and really don't deliver anything more than an underdeveloped sentiment that is much too complex for two lines. Your last line is a need way to do the "Greed" idea... but frankly doesn't deliver near enough punch to make up for the lack of development in the rest of the stanza.

The sunset set's behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
this city has it's problems yes,
but I love it, to be fair.

The rhyme here killed me. As did your last two lines. I thought the last two lines were so unfounded by the rest of this. You had just started to build this negative image in my mind... and never got it negative enough for the idea of "loving it anyway" to really settle in and make it into an almost "savior" to "sinner" relationship that I think you were trying to develop. Decent idea, I just think you need a much stronger setup for your payoff line to work. Beyond that, I wish those last two lines would have been set off in their own stanza. Being tucked under the other two really lessens their power because they don't really stand alone. Don't be afraid to break out of ABCB rhyming and 4-line stanzas. WRiting withing structure is a talent and skill that develops overtime; its often much easier to learn to express yourself through writing by learning to write free form and then once you are comfortable working back toward writing in form.


All in all, nothing stuck out as obscenely horrible, and for a first piece not bad at all... but I still feel like you didn't really develop a consistent "voice" which is a must for coherent and emotionally engaging pieces.

Hope this helps, If you could return the critique on "Soundtrack to the Swallowing of Nations" (link in sig) I'd appreciate it.

-zC
#3
lol, zanas pretty much everything that could of been said. i still liked it though, just needs to be worked on. i love what zanas said about poetry though,

"There is a saying in poetry, "show me, don't tell me." here you are announcing everything, like an announcer to a sporting event. "Dave has the ball. Dave passes the ball. Dave picks his ass."

super funny lol
There is a saying in poetry, "show me, don't tell me." here you are announcing everything, like an announcer to a sporting event. "Dave has the ball. Dave passes the ball. Dave picks his ass."

~Zanascross

XD epic win
#4
Woah, Okay zanas. That's a lot to be taken in, but I really appreciate it. I understand where you are coming from, but I am unsure of how to execute it properly. I guess that just comes with practice?

What do you suggest, keep working on this or start another one?
a little lost.....
#5
Thanks for the nudge.
Quote by Davo Ownz

No doubt - the story of a city.(1)


This beautiful city
has been torn to the ground,
searching for justice,(2)
not an inkling to be found.

The "dirty children" of the streets
are minority no more,
pacifists are starting fights'(3)
now honesty's a flaw.

A man has fallen from a height(4)
but people pass him by,
oblivious to his pain
they've got money on their eyes.

The sunset set's behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
this city has it's problems yes,
but I love it, to be fair.(5)

1 - Don't tell me what it's the story of. I don't want to be told what's going on; I want to be shown.

2 - Who is searching for justice? Clearly the city isn't. Is it you? Some unknown Harvey Dent character? And "inkling" smelled kind of like thesaurus rape. Stop it. Inklings are ideas.

3 - I love the idea of this line, but it's a little problematic. Clearly they aren't pacifists anymore, which took me out of the verse for a moment. Also, learn the difference between -s and -'s/-s'. One makes plural and the other makes possessive. Nobody wants to give your poems a chance if there's bad proofreading; you'll help yourself greatly by fixing these mistakes.
The usage thing is tangential. The main problem here is the oxymoron of pacifists fighting, which, while potentially effective, fell short.

4 - Who is the man, is the fall metaphorical (don't tell me, give me clues to show me), and why is he important enough to include?

5 - Don't tell me. You need to work on your tone/word choice to show me that the city still is special to you.

I'm unsure whether you're describing a real city (as in potentially a fictional one as well) or using it as a metaphor for a life that's gone in entirely the wrong direction. If it's not the latter, bear in mind that the potential for this is definitely there.

I definitely don't think you should abandon something because you didn't get the response you wanted on the first draft of it. This is a work-in-progress. It's not meant to be a finished poem. Keep working with it, cut or revise what isn't working, highlight what is, and expand on anything that shows itself to you as being important now that you'll have had a second draft under your belt. Most first poem drafts are attempts at getting something you can work on. I think you've got that here.

SHEdit: Looks like ZC and I are in agreement here

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

Last edited by SteveHouse at Oct 15, 2009,
#6
If I repeat alot of Zanas...my bad...I didn't read it afraid it would affect my own crit.

Quote by Davo Ownz
Well hello. I am predominately a " critter " of works so I thought it's about time I actually contribute. * written in 20 minutes last morning *


No doubt - the story of a city.


This beautiful city
has been torn to the ground,
searching for justice,
not an inkling to be found.
Okay, firstly "has been torn to the ground". There is 0 flow here. Pretty much whenever you use a perfect tense of any kind, all flow is disrupted. Perfect tense is the songwriter's path to Hell...basically.

Second, "not an inkling to be found". This is another no flow situation. YOU FORCED THIS and it is obvious. You needed to rhyme with ground so you demolished the flow by forcing a rhyme in there. It would be better to not rhyme at all if you are going to be forceful with it. Of course this skill develops as you write more. It is something you must practice. Precise AND smooth rhymes. I still find it difficult to constantly come up with new rhymes smoothly.


The "dirty children" of the streets
are minority no more,
pacifists are starting fights'
now honesty's a flaw.
"Minority no more"...another flow problem and once again it is obviously forced.

OK now I am confused with your rhyme scheme...it is inconsistent. Your first verse is ABCB but this verse has no rhyme scheme (ABCD) or if you consider streets and fights a slant rhyme of some type (don't know if it is) you would have ABAC...either way ABCB does not equal ABCD or ABAC. And looking at your next 2 verses you use ABCB for both of them. Basically this verse does not follow your rhyme scheme.


A man has fallen from a height
but people pass him by,
oblivious to his pain
they've got money on their eyes.
This is a powerful example. "A man falls from the skies" and "They have money on their eyes" would take out the god forsaken perfect tenses and add some flow to this.


The sunset set's behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
this city has it's problems yes,
but I love it, to be fair.
I think this ending is terrible. You could have done so many things with this and you end it with ehhh, I love it anyway (How is that fair?). You could have padded up the other verses with a silent good deed that goes unnoticed after every horrible deed. For example, the man drops from a height. Say after everyone walks by him oblivious to him, A butterfly lands on him, or the blood mixes with his shirt to cause a beautiful montage. Do you see what I am getting at?


All crits are welcome, this is in it's developing stage - I intend on adding a few more verses.


Overall, the city image is pretty good...I can depict what you are saying. There is a bit of a lack in poetic word technique. Instead of stating exactly how it is, use metaphors and all that jazz. For example, the song "The Sky Is Crying" ... everybody knows that means it is raining but instead of "The Sky Is Raining" he decided Crying is more powerful and more poetic. There was not much symbolism either...the sunset could be symbolic but other than that...no symbolism. Overall, I give this a C...It is good for a first time...just try to get better.

ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION FOR ZANAS: Write different songs...variety will cause new revelations to you and you will develop more overall skill as a writer. Sure, try to revise this to make it better according to our crits, but don't stick to this poem religiously for a while. Write new poems with different topics, different rhyme shemes, tones, moods, and lengths. You will see your progress and you will see it quickly. Good luck on your development.
Last edited by 21wickwing at Oct 15, 2009,
#7
Quote by 21wickwing
If I repeat alot of Zanas...my bad...I didn't read it afraid it would affect my own crit.


Overall, the city image is pretty good...I can depict what you are saying. There is a bit of a lack in poetic word technique. Instead of stating exactly how it is, use metaphors and all that jazz. For example, the song "The Sky Is Crying" ... everybody knows that means it is raining but instead of "The Sky Is Raining" he decided Crying is more powerful and more poetic. There was not much symbolism either...the sunset could be symbolic but other than that...no symbolism. Overall, I give this a C...It is good for a first time...just try to get better.


Thanks, is my edit an improvement or what?

I am always striving to get better at whatever I am doing, I am going to write 2 hours a day from now on.
a little lost.....
#8
I like this a whole lot better, good work.

This torn and tattered city
run by brutality and fear,
young men slave for their family's food
wishing they weren't here. (1)

These dirty dwellers(2) of the streets
are minority no more,
priests in whites, are starting fights(3)
and honesty's a flaw.


The sunset sets behind the smog
and illusion fills the air, (4)
it's winter now and oppressively cold
yet young bodies lie still and bare.


1 - That's a really weak line following some really stark ideas. Sounds like a forced rhyme. I still wish you would show some examples of the judgments you make, but this is a much better start.

2 - I like the alliteration, but I feel like there has to be several nouns that mean "dirty dwellers."

3 -

4 - How exactly does illusion fill the air? Does that just mean it's rampant? What is the illusion; who is deluded?

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#9
Quote by SteveHouse
I like this a whole lot better, good work.


1 - That's a really weak line following some really stark ideas. Sounds like a forced rhyme. I still wish you would show some examples of the judgments you make, but this is a much better start.

2 - I like the alliteration, but I feel like there has to be several nouns that mean "dirty dwellers."

3 -

4 - How exactly does illusion fill the air? Does that just mean it's rampant? What is the illusion; who is deluded?


I think that " The sunset sets behind the smog " sounds good.
a little lost.....
#10
It's a mite repetitive though. Which suits your style more, "The sunset sets" or "The sun sets"?

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#11
Probably the latter. I just like it a tad better. But definitely not in this context. :/

Any other ideas?
a little lost.....
#12
Quote by Davo Ownz
No doubt - the story of a city.

I'm going to agree with a few of the above and say that I like the idea of just leaving the title at 'No Doubt'. It kind of leaves the rest of the piece as somewhat of a mystery, instead of telling us exactly what it's going to be about.

This torn and tattered city
run by brutality and fear,
The use of alliteration on 'torn and tattered', and the use of the 't' in 'torn','tattered', 'city' and 'brutality' creates this hard sound when reading it, setting up an idea as to the state of this city.
young men slave for their family's food
wishing they weren't here.
I like 'young men slave for their familiy's food', but i'm not too keen on 'wishing they weren't here' becuase, to me, it sounds as though you couldn't find anything else to rhyme.

These dirty dwellers of the streets
are minority no more,
priests in whites, are starting fights
and honesty's a flaw.
I really love this verse. I love the way you have a comparison between the 'dirty dwellers' who are possibly the innocent(?), to the 'priests in whites' who're the ones causing trouble and creating conflict. I really liked this

The sunset set's behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
it's winter now and oppressively cold
yet young bodies lie still and bare.
I like this verse, not as much as the second, but it's nice. I loved how something beautiful (the sunset) is being almost erradicated by something unpleasent, and I find that the last line is quite effective as the stillness is almost peaceful (although quite sad) after the 'brutality,' the 'fear', and the 'fights'.


Overall, I think you've got some nice ideas here.
I really liked the way you used alliteration at the start of each verse, it was enjoyable to read.
let these flat chords just break your heart...
Last edited by soph_bassist! at Oct 15, 2009,
#13
Soph, thank you very much! Anything you would like me to crit of yours? I am already working on Z'c's so I may as well do yours.
a little lost.....
#15
I think it's a pretty cool song, most of my toughts have been voiced, and they were minor. As a teenager, I guess I'm supposed to tell you my heart bleeds to your song, or that you sould turn it nu-metal or something.
#17
Quote by Rock_Rebel
I think it's a pretty cool song, most of my toughts have been voiced, and they were minor. As a teenager, I guess I'm supposed to tell you my heart bleeds to your song, or that you sould turn it nu-metal or something.



...well?
a little lost.....
#19
Quote by bassbeat77
Blackdotted. I'll get to this tomorrow.


Alright thanks, try to get some sleep
a little lost.....
#20
Well you gave me a link to a poem that looks well critiqued already :p 18 People before me

This torn and tattered city
run by brutality and fear,
young men slave for their family's food
wishing they weren't here.
When reading this stanza, the second line doesn't seem to flow too well from my mouth. The word 'Brutality' doesn't work. Try "force."
These dirty dwellers of the streets
are minority no more,
priests in whites, are starting fights
and honesty's a flaw.
I like the, "Priests in white, are starting fights," I sounds good to add rhyming words here and there to keep the reading pace up.
The sunset set's behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
it's winter now and oppressively cold
yet young bodies lie still and bare.
You don't need "sunset sets," you just need, "sun sets." Also "Oppressively," seems to be too big of a word to flow with this poem. Try, "The winter was so hard and cold."

Not too bad of a poem. I could eventually see this as a good song. It doesn't really need that much more work so I would start working on chord progressions if I was you. Good Job Keep on Writing
Comments or Suggestions
Omit or Change
Suggested Changes


I am the 24 Wild Rovers
If You Wish to Give C4C Click on the Smlileys
:
#21
Again I hope I do not repeat other crits too much but I did not read them all.

Quote by Davo Ownz
Well hello. I am predominately a " critter " of works so I thought it's about time I actually contribute. * written in 20 minutes last morning *


No doubt - the story of a city.


Very edited.

This torn and tattered city
run by brutality and fear,
young men slave for their family's food
wishing they weren't here.
Line 2 ... "brutality" has way too many syllables...try a word meaning the same thing...just shorter.

I also think Line 3 is a tad bit long but it may work...it is a good message though. Maybe replace "young men" with "kids"


These dirty dwellers of the streets
are minority no more,
priests in whites, are starting fights
and honesty's a flaw.
If you want to keep "minority no more" then that is fine but I personally don't like it. It disrupts the flow a bit and it does not roll off my tongue as easily as you think it does.

Priests in whites is definitely an upgrade from pacifists.



The sunset set's behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
it's winter now and oppressively cold
yet young bodies lie still and bare.
Sunset sets is redundant. Just sun sets is fine and there is no apostrophe needed in sets.

Illusion makes me wonder a bit but I think I know what you mean.


All crits are welcome, this is in it's developing stage - I intend on adding a few more verses.


Much better. The alliterations are nicely used. Just a few errors.
#22
Alright thanks, I changed the little mistakes. I am trying it without " The sunset sets "
a little lost.....
#23
This torn and tattered city
run by force and fear,
young men slave for their family's food
wishing they weren't here.

These dirty dwellers of the streets
are minority no more,
priests in whites, are starting fights
and honesty's a flaw.


The sun sets behind the smog
and illusion fills the air,
it's winter now and oppressively cold
yet young bodies lie still and bare.


What if you use repetition to end each section? this could establish how you oh so love your corrupt city. How bout "but at least it's mine" and varying that? Then the randomness of OH, but I LOVE YOU CITY! at the end lol.

Stanza I

Line 1: Describe a picture to me.
Line 2: Personify that fear (objects two; like nails)
Line 3: How about "kids" instead of young men so that it evens up your syllables better; more depressing
Line 4: Doesn't really fit?

Stanza II

Line 1: Describe their animalistic traits; and tattered attitude / appearance
Line 2: No Comment
Line 3: Describe this more ? Little verse vignette? the in whites isn't necessary in my opinion
Line 4: REFER TO SI L2; I've heard that you are never supposed to name a feeling in songs EVER and i solidly believe this.

Stanza III

Line 1: Good
Line 2: Describe me that illusion
Line 3: Eh. bland.
Line 4: What's that smell like?

Ill edit with a link to my poem, Nirvana.