#1
Hi. I just got a new guitar teacher and he taught me how to play the Cm scale. And he told me to learn how to improvise between the Cm scale and C scale while playing over a song in the key of C. The problem is, is that when I switch to the Cm scale, all the notes don't sound like they belong and it ends up sounding awful. Is the Cm scale suppoased to be used alongside the C scale while improvising on songs in the key of C? or should I just stay on the C scale while improvising during a song in the key of C? Please help.
#3
Cm is supposed to be used in the key of Cm.
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#4
Your teacher is a bit of a nooblet. C and C minor are two completely different keys. C minor is the sixth mode of Eb Major. The relative minor of C major is A minor. Unless you're working in the pentatonic scales, playing in C minor over a C major chord progression will just sound awful. Ask your teacher to explain the theory behind it and post it back on here
#5
So Blinkfan would I be able to switch between the C scale and the Am scale while improvising in the key of C?
#6
Well, if you want to use more than one different key in a song, you can switch from Cm to C and vice versa but you have to do it in a way that is going to fit. Most modern music just sticks it out in one key but you can switch for effect. You just have to figure out a good way to do it. As for the scale, I have known people to switch the key in the scale they are playing but they do it in a way that it works for what they play. C to Cm or Cm to C just doesn't seem like it will fit together well, doesn't mean someone has tried it.
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#7
Quote by Conway317
So Blinkfan would I be able to switch between the C scale and the Am scale while improvising in the key of C?


Well see thats the thing, both scales have exactly the same notes. C major is C D E F G A B C and A minor is A B C D E F G. Thats what a mode is, the same scale based off a different not. Another name for the minor scale is the Aeolian mode. If you were to play an a minor scale, and base it around the A as your root, it still wouldnt work very well. If you want to make a different sound, try experimenting with different modes. D dorian is D E F G A B C D for example
#8
Quote by blink_fan
Well see thats the thing, both scales have exactly the same notes. C major is C D E F G A B C and A minor is A B C D E F G. Thats what a mode is, the same scale based off a different not. Another name for the minor scale is the Aeolian mode. If you were to play an a minor scale, and base it around the A as your root, it still wouldnt work very well. If you want to make a different sound, try experimenting with different modes. D dorian is D E F G A B C D for example

Did you mean would?

TS: To play in Cm whilst playing against a C progression, you'd have to omit all the notes that didn't fit into C Major. Which would mean you're just playing C Major anyway. Your tutor sounds like a noob. Get a different tutor!

You might get away with using the outside notes, but 'technically' it's not correct. And even if it did sound correct, you'd probably be said to be using Cmajor with passing notes.
#9
Quote by Ikonoklast
Did you mean would?

TS: To play in Cm whilst playing against a C progression, you'd have to omit all the notes that didn't fit into C Major. Which would mean you're just playing C Major anyway. Your tutor sounds like a noob. Get a different tutor!

You might get away with using the outside notes, but 'technically' it's not correct. And even if it did sound correct, you'd probably be said to be using Cmajor with passing notes.


No I meant wouldn't. It'd be the musically correct notes, but since A is the 6th of the C basing it around that wouldnt sound that great. Then again, it still is the major 6th so I guess if you like being able to sit on that note in a guitar solo then sure. Not my personal favourite IMO but it works, my bad.
#10
Quote by blink_fan
No I meant wouldn't. It'd be the musically correct notes, but since A is the 6th of the C basing it around that wouldnt sound that great. Then again, it still is the major 6th so I guess if you like being able to sit on that note in a guitar solo then sure. Not my personal favourite IMO but it works, my bad.

Oh hang on i read your post properly, you mean playing A minor over C major wouldn't work?

Because it would...because if you were playing over a C Maj progression and kept emphasising the A, it does what it says on the tin.

Without the context the minor will be minor, but over the context of C Maj you're just playing C Major, whatever notes you emphasise.

EDIT: Again, didn't properly read your last post where you said it works. My bad, this time!
Last edited by Ikonoklast at Oct 18, 2009,
#11
Cm over a C major progression doesn't work. Plain and simple. You have some choices of what to use, but Cm is not one of them.
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#12
dont listen to all these retards that try to sound smart and go into irrelevent points.
C minor and C major both have different notes. There you go.
#13
Quote by brianmayrocks!
dont listen to all these retards that try to sound smart and go into irrelevent points.
C minor and C major both have different notes. There you go.


You are a douche, I told him that in my first reply.
#14
Quote by blink_fan
You are a douche, I told him that in my first reply.


Lol you cheesy yank bastard thinking your all clever chattin shit about nothing any one cares about . Why cant you just put it in a simple sentance rather than talking about dorian ? But since your american and think your amazing i suppose thats impossible
#15
Quote by Conway317
Hi. I just got a new guitar teacher and he taught me how to play the Cm scale. And he told me to learn how to improvise between the Cm scale and C scale while playing over a song in the key of C. The problem is, is that when I switch to the Cm scale, all the notes don't sound like they belong and it ends up sounding awful. Is the Cm scale suppoased to be used alongside the C scale while improvising on songs in the key of C? or should I just stay on the C scale while improvising during a song in the key of C? Please help.
Was he talking about any song, or blues? Cos if you've got say a 12 bar blues you can use the major or minor pentatonic scales over it, and it sounds quite cool. The easiest way to change between them is probably to use the major note to change from minor to major, and the blues note to change back to minor
#16
Quote by brianmayrocks!
Lol you cheesy yank bastard thinking your all clever chattin shit about nothing any one cares about . Why cant you just put it in a simple sentance rather than talking about dorian ? But since your american and think your amazing i suppose thats impossible


I agree with you dude. **** YEAH !!!!!
#17
Quote by zhilla
Was he talking about any song, or blues? Cos if you've got say a 12 bar blues you can use the major or minor pentatonic scales over it, and it sounds quite cool. The easiest way to change between them is probably to use the major note to change from minor to major, and the blues note to change back to minor


Thats what I thought he meant originally- there is no other way that it would work...and since the blues is what most people learn to improvise with...

If you're playing the blues, especially over dominant chords you can swap between the two (the dominant chord suggesting the 5th degree of the scale, therefore if you play a minor scale it kinda implies the harmonic minor- the major scale implies Ionian).

Maybe you didn't mean over C major chords, but over C7? That would work.
#18
Cm over C in simple terms will not work. I've heard a bunch of things about pitch axis and whatever but i doin't know about that, and i think it's modal too.

Playing Cm in C means you're playing C with some 'wrong' or 'outside' notes in it.

It's all about context. If you're playing in the key of C you're playing in the key of C.
#19
i think the TS mis-understood what his teacher was asking, maybe it`s just a excercise in modal differences, trying to get the TS to think modally instead of just another scale approach...
#20
Quote by chainsawguitar
Thats what I thought he meant originally- there is no other way that it would work...and since the blues is what most people learn to improvise with...

If you're playing the blues, especially over dominant chords you can swap between the two (the dominant chord suggesting the 5th degree of the scale, therefore if you play a minor scale it kinda implies the harmonic minor- the major scale implies Ionian).

Maybe you didn't mean over C major chords, but over C7? That would work.
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