#1
So god damned immature. I looked back at most of the pieces I've posted, and there's only maybe three of them that I like. Let's say two so I'm not lying. I know I have the ability to write well, I have decent ideas(sometimes), but I can't fucking do it. Everything comes out sounding horribly amateurish. I know the answers I'm gonna get are "Just keep writing, it will develop in time" because that's what I would say to someone posting this thread if they weren't me. But damn, it's annoying to have everything you write sound extremely immature, even by your own standards. I almost feel like a dumbass when I post a piece.


And by the way, the techniques sub-forum still sucks. So I guess it's a great place to post something where I know nobody will read it just so I can get this out of my head. Thank you, Techniques Sub-forum, for being a complete waste of UGs bandwidth.
Today I feel electric grey
I hope tomorrow, neon black
#2
You do get to appear on the front page for a little while though.


My advice is find a songwriting partner. It's always great to work with another musician friend, and hopefully it will make you find new ways of looking at songwriting.
"...I cried. Just for a second. Then I thought, 'I must rock.' "
- James Iha



Rock on y'all!

#3
Well, the best thing to do IS keep writing. Sometimes I get mad at myself for using the same subject matter over and over again, or using the same old verse-chorus-verse-chorus scheme. By immature do you just mean that the wording sounds childish? Or are the songs about immature things?(think blink-182s older stuff/bonus tracks)
#4
^^ Go read a piece of mine(Please, god, don't comment) and you may or may not see what I mean.


Quote by Calvero
You do get to appear on the front page for a little while though.




What the fuck do I care if I'm on the front page on an immaterial internet forum that I gain no benefit from posting on other than constantly struggling to improve my writing?. In fact, I don't even care if anybody on this website likes what I write, I just want at least myself to be satisfied with it. All these people enjoying it would be a bonus.
Today I feel electric grey
I hope tomorrow, neon black
#5
From the two pieces in your sig I really don't see the immaturity. I got a kind of awkward feel from bits of them, but I didn't see any immaturity.
#6
It's there.
Today I feel electric grey
I hope tomorrow, neon black
#7
Well i don't seem to get it, but my advice would be to find some "serious" musicians with lyrics you find to be mature and analyze how they do it. That's how I approach new styles.
#8
Quote by sk8nalmost1394
From the two pieces in your sig I really don't see the immaturity. I got a kind of awkward feel from bits of them, but I didn't see any immaturity.


My words almost spot on. "An Outpouring" was quite nice.

Also, you might not care that you get to appear on the front page. I said that cause even though you posted on a less visited sub-forum, you got views.

Chill enough, stop putting yourself down and go write something. It's always interesting to write pissed off. Your feelings are up to your skin, take advantage of that.
"...I cried. Just for a second. Then I thought, 'I must rock.' "
- James Iha



Rock on y'all!

#9
this is something you get over with time. you get a feel for the right words and evocations. i write ots a lot now because it's almost second nature to eschew my less mature ideas but i used to reread my pieces to bits and find more eloquent ways to say anything i found stupid. another good step for this is restraint. rather than post every good idea work more on really nailing the best ones, it helps cut down on loose threads and stupid tangents. i have this problem still though, i still look back at some of my pieces and cringe at some of the stupid things i write, but in time you'll grow to the point where it's not too upsetting to look back on your writing as long as you become more conscious of how what you're saying comes across.
#10
If your pieces are considered immature, then damn i've got a hell of a long way to go in the way of songwriting.
#11
I tried to post my comment and think I deleted it. Ah. Well.
As Donald Fegan of Steeley Dan says, go back, jack, do it again...

I think your lyrics are fine. I got a giggle from the best dinner lyrics, and the outpouring lyrics are heavy. You might watch words like "reddish" and "wanna", which will make your lyrics sound a bit immature. You can substitute words of the same syllable or rhythm, like "crimson" or "scarlet" or even "blood-red", where the accent falls in the same syllable as "reddish". "Wanna" sounds a bit off since your lyric is heavy and "wanna" is casual. Paul McCartney and John Lennon "wanna" hold your hand, which works for that lyric but maybe not for yours.

I suggest that you read, read, read all sorts of things. Listen to how writers (poets and just really good writers) use language, how they alliterate, how they structure meter. Even some fiction writers use rather poetical form for their books. "Snow Falls on Cedars", which I didn't like the story, but liked the language, does this.

You can read poetry, both modern and classical, and see how the rhyme schemes/meter and poetical structure work. I sometimes take my lyric that I am working on, and classify the "A" rhyme, the "B" rhyme, and so on, and see how I have interspersed them, and where I need to modify them so that the structure is a bit more interesting than AABB or ABAB. Sometimes the lyric lends itself to a different structure, sometimes not. Does it say what you want to say and how you want it to be said? If not, change it.

A master of lyrics is Bob Dylan. Mood and feeling in few words.

I also recommend you to go to Peter Sinfield's website

songsouponsea.com

He has a whole series of (I think) lecture notes that discuss how he writes lyrics. I think he's a genius, even though I am no Cher or Celine fan. But lyrically, he's marvellous. But his Crimson lyrics are the sh*t. Look at the lyrics for the whole first King Crimson album (way back in 1969--they are releasing a new remaster in 5.1 surround, which should blow the paint of your walls--Anyway, the lyrics are really amazing, and on Schizoid Man, and I Talk to the Wind, simple (on their surface, but his lyrics are layered with meaning, even in Cher and Celine songs). One thing he did for a long time with Greg Lake was what I call "incompletion". They would write the song/lyric, and for instance, write/sing only a portion of the chorus, the first time, and only somewhat later in the song (sometimes two or three choruses later) the whole chorus statement is made. An example is Closer to Believing and Hallowed be thy Name (ELP Works I album). You can probably find this on playlist.com or last.fm

I also suggest listening to your favorite bands, that you like their lyrics. Figure out their rhyme schemes, their meter (poetic, not necessarily musical, like how many syllables in each line, which lines rhyme or go with others metrically), that sort of thing. Find out what are throw away lyrics or easy rhymes that don't do much for the progression of the lyrical idea. You might even listen to the (dreaded) pop song. Rhianna sings some interesting lyrics. Lady Gaga's lyrics are stupid. Madonna sometimes has surprisingly good lyrics, but does she write them? We may never know.

I find that many alternative bands now have a LOT of lyrics, way too many to really get the idea across. They need to edit. It feels a little like words are being shoved into a melody line because of the quantity of words. Relient K, not a terrible band (not my fav, see Crimson above for that) but they do this regularly.


With your own lyrics you might ask yourself if you are saying what you want to say and is it being said in the best way possible. Lyrics don't need to be complex to have a complex idea. Or a simple idea. And definitely have a musical friend read your lyrics and give you honest face to face feedback, and you do the same for them.

Nothing gets more embarrassing than all those hit songs out there with a great riff, a great beat, a great melody and great musicianship, but a real letdown lyrically.

anyhoo, my overly-expansive thoughts on lyrics.
#12
I read like you have no idea. I've been reading like you have no idea since third grade, I was always the kid that used to read in Gym while he ran the mile. I learned to read and walk at the same time without bumping into anything, I read so much. Of course I don't do that anymore, but I am still a huge reader. Poetry, prose, lyrics, anything. Reading other peoples stuff isn't my problem at all.


NGD, thank you^35.
Today I feel electric grey
I hope tomorrow, neon black
#13
Pick a set form and write in it to death, you'll naturally start to understand how form and content interact with one another. Most awkward writing comes from trying to fit something into a mold that doesn't fit there, heavy repitition of of one form is a great way to mature quickly. It's also helpful because you begin by following the rules to a T, and only gradually understand where you can make exceptions and push boundries, and understand exactly what effect making those exceptions has on the work--another mark of mature writers.

The same thing works for content. Try out a few topics and write them to death. You spend enough time with them and get to know them well enough and you're bound to 1) move beyond the cliche ways of talking about them and 2)intimately understand how they interact with various styles of writing.

Can't stress enough to all the people that think it should just flow out on the page: if you take the time and really internalize some specific forms to the point of understanding how their mechanics affect the meaning of a work, you're going to be ten times the writer you would be otherwise.