#1
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/musicians-protest-tunes-used-in-interrogations/

Quote by The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com
This time at least, musicians Tom Morello and Trent Reznor want the music turned down.

Mr. Morello, formerly of Rage Against the Machine, and Mr. Reznor, of Nine Inch Nails, are among a group of musicians who have joined the National Campaign to Close Guantánamo and are supporting the group’s efforts to declassify records dealing with the use of music in detainee interrogations.

Previously declassified records and other reports have already documented some of the uses of loud music, including the playing of recordings by Nine Inch Nails and Rage Against the Machine. With the help of the National Security Archive, this group hopes to learn more about the use of music as an interrogation technique by filing Freedom of Information Act requests on Thursday with a host of government agencies — including the Defense Department, C.I.A. and F.B.I.

Mr. Morello, R.E.M. and The Roots said in statements that they were outraged that music had been used in interrogations and called for the closure of the detention center at Guantanamo. Other musicians backing the effort include Pearl Jam, Jackson Browne and Rosanne Cash.

“We have spent the past 30 years supporting causes related to peace and justice – to now learn that some of our friends’ music may have been used as part of the torture tactics without their consent or knowledge, is horrific,” R.E.M. said in a statement. “It’s anti-American, period.”

A White House spokesman indicated that loud music was one of the techniques tossed away during a policy shift on interrogations announced shortly after the president’s inauguration. And according to The Associated Press, a C.I.A. spokesman said, when the music was used, it was not employed “for punitive purposes — and at levels far below a live rock band.”

Aaron Harison of Keep America Safe — the recently formed group that accuses President Obama’s administration of “turning away from the policies that have kept us safe” — said the group would not comment on the new move.

Jayne Huckerby of the International Human Rights Clinic at the New York University School of Law, which represents two former detainees who faced music as an interrogation technique, said the Thursday filings could increase the understanding of the “psychological impact this had on the individuals that were subjected to it.”

“We’re far away from understanding” the extent music was used in interrogations, added Ms. Huckerby, who also pointed to a United Nations finding that the “sounding of loud music for prolonged periods” violated its Convention Against Torture.

According to Ms. Huckerby, Mohamed Bashmilah, one of the detainees represented by her group, has indicated that both “excruciatingly loud western rap and Arabic music” and “deafening music” were used while he was detained. Recordings by Metallica, Britney Spears and even from Sesame Street have also been employed as interrogation techniques, according to previous reports.

Kate Doyle, senior analyst for the National Security Archive, said that previous filings had not concentrated specifically on the use of music in interrogations.

“We expect to obtain documents that name bands and songs that were used in detainee interrogations,” she said. “The very small handful that we’ve already seen came up accidentally during requests that we’re not targeting music.”

Still, it’s hard to say how long it will take before Thursday’s filing produces any documents. Some of the petitioned agencies, Ms. Doyle said, have a history of being more responsive than others to information requests.

The filing comes two days after a group, the National Campaign to Close Guantanamo, released its first advertisement, which criticized Congress for standing in the way of efforts to close the detention center.

First of all, I think that intentionally playing music to torture fundamentalist Muslims, who don't believe in music, is a brilliant tactic, albeit an ethical nightmare, especially considering they didn't get permission from any of the artists. Second, if they really wanted to torture them, why not put more extreme music on?

Thoughts?
#3
Why didn't they just get some redneck country singers to sign an agreement, they'd probably be thrilled to know their music was being used to torture Muslims.
#4
I think its the message in the music as opposed to the music itself.

/my2cents
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#5
They should have played jingo country or something like that. That would've supported the "HEY WE'RE AMERICA AND WE'RE GONNA KICK YR ASS!" message, plus avoided legal troubles.
#6
I'd allow my music to be used to torture Muslims, **** it, why not? It's a service to our fine nation.
#7
I'm against Guantanamo bay too, but I don't see how music is going to torture them anymore. They DEFINITELY should've gotten the artists' permission though.
#8
If the CIA or whatever didn't get permission from the artists' publishers to play their music, then with sufficient evidence the artists should be taking the agencies to court for copyright infringement if nothing else.
#9
If RATM, NIN, R.E.M., The Roots, Metallica, Pearl Jam, AND Sesame Street. are used to interrogate terrorists.
Where do I sign up to be a terrorist?
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Last edited by monkeysintheday at Oct 22, 2009,
#10
How is it copyright infringement to play music for someone. They're not using it for a commercial purpose.
#11
Lars Ulrich vs Napster vs CIA?
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#12
Quote by demondown666
cannibal corpse will keep them in line.



There are muslim metalheads so I don't think that'd work, I can't see the necessity either.
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#13
By torture they mean that they play one song over and over for days, at a really loud volume. Your brain starts reacting differently and would do anything to make it stop, thus revealing whatever information needed.
As I always say: "Rawr"
#14
They should just get the rights to all that she wants by ace of base.

They'd crack.
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#15
Quote by Flipje
There are muslim metalheads so I don't think that'd work, I can't see the necessity either.


Yes, but the Muslim metalheads aren't the ones detained in Gitmo.
#16
I have to admit, if I was kidnapped and played traditional asian music constantly I'd get a bit pissed.

Nothing against the stuff, but I wouldn't like it 24/7
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#18
I'm pretty sure this is copyright infringement on the CIA's part (copyright holder's exclusive right to have their works publicly performed). RIAA should sue the CIA. I'd love to hear about that.

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#19
Quote by Holy Katana
Here's a list of what they used:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/10/22/music.list.pdf

Deicide is on the list. Apparently, they already thought of using death metal.



A hefty majority of that seems like it would be negative torture.

Some of those threw me off though.
i.e. The Bee Gees, The Barney Theme Song, The Meow Mix Jingle, Neil Diamond, and the Sesame Street theme.


Why didn't they just bring tupac in? He's probably next to them in a cell. (Well, not anymore, but now he's in a cave)
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#21
I don't think they can do anything about it. The government isn't playing the music publicly and they aren't making money off it.
#22
Quote by fattyDQ
I'd allow my music to be used to torture Muslims, **** it, why not? It's a service to our fine nation.

Is your music really that bad?

And the problem is that they are torturing people, you racist fuck. But hey, all in the name of America, right?
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#23
That's good. I know the worst thing I would have to do ever is listen to Deicide over and over :/

Also, to people saying use more extreme music, why? Why not just use loud noise? Same effect.
Last edited by icaneatcatfood at Oct 22, 2009,
#24
Pfft, they went with the wrong bands. They should have played U2. Best torture method ever. Not even the most hardcore terrorist would be able to stand their incessant god-awful sound for more than a few minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!
#25
Why not just play Stalaggh? They would probably be thrilled to hear for what cause their music is used for.
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#26
Quote by JDawg
Die mother****er die mother ****er die! DUDUN DUN DUN DUN!

I'd take musical torture over the ****ed up shit that terrorists come up with.


haha i HATE that song so much its the same thing over and over and over and over
#27
Quote by ..NEM..
Is your music really that bad?

And the problem is that they are torturing people, you racist fuck. But hey, all in the name of America, right?



+1


I can't believe anyone can condone this shit.
#28
My dream interrogation they'd just blast RATM :p
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#29
Quote by obeythepenguin
I feel that there is, and can be, absolutely no moral, ethical, or even practical justification of torture, and frankly, I find it quite disgusting that you would trivialize the issue as you do.

Trying to completely stop the practice of torture by an intelligence agency is not a realistic thing to try and accomplish.

If however, it is possible to legally forbid them from using music as a torture, then that is a realistic way of limiting the various ways in which the agency can torture people.
#30
Quote by obeythepenguin
(1) People are being tortured and all you can think about is the artists?

(2) Yes, it is an absolutely brilliant tactic, I agree. However, while I admire in one sense the creativity of the technique, if you can forgive me such word choice, I think it is absolutely sickening that anyone would ever devise this type of torture, let alone use it on human beings. I feel that there is, and can be, absolutely no moral, ethical, or even practical justification of torture, and frankly, I find it quite disgusting that you would trivialize the issue as you do.


I'm very much opposed to it, I just didn't know what else to say other than something that was tongue-in-cheek. I didn't mean to trivialize it as much as I wanted to draw attention to it. Laughing to keep myself from crying, if you will.
#31
Quote by ..NEM..

And the problem is that they are torturing people, you racist fuck. But hey, all in the name of America, right?


see, what i'm having a problem understanding is this:

are they blasting the music so loud that it overwhelms the detainees, or are they just playing music that the detainees consider "infidel music", music that goes against their religious beliefs?

the CIA says that they were using the music at levels far below the normal rock concert, and aside from the one detainee, is there any other proof that the CIA was blaring this music? now, im not saying the CIA wouldn't lie, but that detainee could have easily lied or his statement could have been taken out of context...i mean, i'm sure you've all heard adults who don't like rock music call it "loud", but really how many of them have been to a concert and seen how loud it really is?

i would just like these questions answered because they really do make all the difference.
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#33
If any band/artist should be used to torture them it should be the Jonas Brothers or Miley Cirus
#34
Quote by fattyDQ
I'd allow my music to be used to torture Muslims, **** it, why not? It's a service to our fine nation.

That's a personal insult to every person in this country. Use your brain.
#35
Quote by Waterboy799
see, what i'm having a problem understanding is this:

are they blasting the music so loud that it overwhelms the detainees, or are they just playing music that the detainees consider "infidel music", music that goes against their religious beliefs?

the CIA says that they were using the music at levels far below the normal rock concert, and aside from the one detainee, is there any other proof that the CIA was blaring this music? now, im not saying the CIA wouldn't lie, but that detainee could have easily lied or his statement could have been taken out of context...i mean, i'm sure you've all heard adults who don't like rock music call it "loud", but really how many of them have been to a concert and seen how loud it really is?

i would just like these questions answered because they really do make all the difference.


From what I've read, they're not playing it very loudly. It's just that the detainees hate music because of their particular interpretation of Islam. They view almost all music as sinful, even most Islamic music.

Or maybe I misread the article. It was probably the latter.
#36
Wow, you think they'd play music that wouldn't piss the artists way the **** off, were they to catch wind of it.

I mean, Rage Against The Machine. Come on...
#37
Quote by Holy Katana
From what I've read, they're not playing it very loudly. It's just that the detainees hate music because of their particular interpretation of Islam. They view almost all music as sinful, even most Islamic music.

Or maybe I misread the article. It was probably the latter.


right, that's what i thought.

now, here's where i'm going to disagree with the majority of the users in the this thread. interrogation techniques are used in order to get in the detainee's head, in other words, mind games. unless the music is played to the point where it gives someone a headache or causes any sort of physical pain, i can't see what the problem is.

how many people here would think it funny to be near some fundamentalist Christians blasting some Dimmu Borgir? you're not physically harming the detainee, you're just hoping their dislike of the music is stronger than their allegiance to their terrorist organizations.

by saying that music the detainees don't like is torture, then you're just one step away from saying interrogation in general is torture because it causes distress to the prisoner.

like i said, unless the music is used to cause some sort of physical distress, keeping the prisoners up from sleep or giving them headaches etc. i can't disagree with the use of this tactic, it's as far away from waterboarding as you can possibly get.
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Last edited by Waterboy799 at Oct 22, 2009,