Hi, im a begginer when it comes to theory and i was wondering, i learnt the natural minor scale (aeolian) and i realised that the 4th position (http://gosk.com/scales/natural-minor-scale-for-guitar.php) is the same as a dorian mode position is there a reason to this and could someone explain please.

this is the stickyest incident since stick the sticky stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun
Because they're the same scale. Just different modes.

Eg. A Aeolian and D Dorian contain all the same notes.

Edit: Yeah him down there did it better.
The UG Awards exist only to instill me with existential doubt.

For me, the 60's ended that day in 1978...

Willies. Fuck the lick and fuck you too.
Last edited by TheBurningFish at Oct 23, 2009,
The reason is that the modes are all based on the major scale with the major scale interval pattern: WWHWWWH. The natural minor also has these intervals only it starts on the 6th note in the major scale: WHWWHWW (in bold in the previous example).

This means that C major contains the same notes as the minor scale with the 6th note as the tonic, which is A minor. The same counts for other modes. A natural minor has the same notes as C major, but also D dorian, E phrygian F lydian etc, and that's why they have the same positions on the fretboard. HOWEVER, same notes and same position doesnt mean the same scale. C major wants to resolve to C while A minor wants to resolve to A, so you can't play A minor when you're in C and vice versa. For more detailed information about modes check the mode sticky: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1042392
Because the order of the modes goes in a repeating pattern as such: Ionian (Major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian (Natural Minor), Locrian (Which can be memorized using the mnemonic "I don't particularly like modes a lot").

The fourth position of the Aeolian scale would be the fourth note which would be 4 modes up from Aeolian so just count "Aeolian, Locrian (back to the beginning), Ionian aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand DORIAN!!!" Hence, when you play the fourth position of Aeolian mode, which is the Dorian mode, it looks the Dorian mode, because it is the Dorian mode. Similarly the fifth position would be the Phrygian mode, and sixth would by Lydian, etc.

Any questions?
My Gear:
G&L ASAT Classic Tribute
Ibanez RGT42
PRS Santana SE

Randall RG50TC

DOD YJM308 Preamp Overdrive
Digitech RP250

Tortex jazz picks (1.14 mm)
Thanks guys, that really helped, now i can understand how to use scales and modes better.
this is the stickyest incident since stick the sticky stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun
Remember, as the notes of C Ionian, D dorian...B locrian are the same, the thing that dictates the root (not the starting note! the root, where the music feels it should end).

Also, I'll just mention that if you're a beginner at theory then I suggest you ignore modes for a while and just focus on the major and minor scales and learning about them really well.
Quote by 12345abcd3

Also, I'll just mention that if you're a beginner at theory then I suggest you ignore modes for a while and just focus on the major and minor scales and learning about them really well.

Yup.
Can I pull out a picture I haven't used in a wile?

If you look at the top row you'll see all the box shapes are the same. You could play them in exactly the same position on the neck using exactly the same notes but achieve different "modes" because of which note is functioning as the tonic or root note.

While on the bottom you see that the same mode has lots of different box patterns up and down the neck.

The point is obvious, but hope it helps...
Si