#1
CLICK HERE to go to my new question!!!

I have a 27" scale Agile AL-2800 coming soon.

I plan to tune drop A, and certainly don't want it to get too muddy and it seems that higher output may not be the way to go? I am pretty clueless here. I keep reading contradictory information. Some people say active pickups or very hot pickups are a bad idea (turns to mush), and others say the exact opposite.

Please help! You guys are awsome.

EDIT: It's here! Check out the post starting with "EDIT!"
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
Last edited by PimpSmurf at Dec 16, 2009,
#2
I plan to tune drop A, and certainly don't want it to get too muddy

then dont tune to drop A?
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#4
Quote by TK1
then dont tune to drop A?

Standard tuning for a 27" is b or c standard. I prefer Dean Markley MED 12's over the stock 11's, so B standard (or drop A) will be my tuning.

I am talking about pickups appropriate to baritone low drops.
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
#5
EMGs sound better on down tuned guitars i think. also, the seymour duncan dimebucker sounded good on my guitar that was in C. i wouldnt reccomend that one if youre doing past palm muting as its not a super tight pup


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#6
Quote by SYLrules88
if youre doing past palm muting


What do you mean "past" palm muting?

I don't know exactly what to call the type of metal I wish to play. I want the ability to get cleanish low tones with my bad monkey (ie, tube distortion only) and do heavy rhythm and secondary lead (to an E standard) with my DDM pedal.

I was considering a hot pickup like GFS Power Rails/Crunchy Rails, but I really don't know what is appropriate for my amp. I have also considered a cleaner alcino pickup in the bridge with a heavier pickup in the neck for palm mute nastiness. *shrug*

If I can't find some more conclusive info I may just go ahead and get the hot pickups and put them in my Dean Vendetta which I plan to keep tuned to drop D.
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
#7
If you want to go active, look at the EMG 81/60, or if you want passives go with the DiMarzio D-Sonic, which is designed for drop tuned guitars.

D.L. from The Acacia Strain uses an 81 on his ESP Eclipse II, and they play Drop A.
LTD MH-250NT (With EMG 81/85)
Ibanez RGT42FXQM
Bugera 6260
Seismic Audio 212
Last edited by Mitochondria9 at Oct 23, 2009,
#8
sorry, i mean FAST palm muting. the dimebucker is great and even nastier when coil tapped.

its like a big, sloppy, juicy burger dripping with grease.


7 String+ ERG Legion!!

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#9
Duncan distortion-really tight pickup.
Um, neck, a Full Shred maybe?

Actives (either EMG's or Blackouts) are always an option.
Current Gear:
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Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
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You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#10
Man. I am going to spend more on pickups than I am on tubes... lol

I do like palm mute chugga chugga fun. Overwealming amounts of information out there, and so much B.S. Plus there are so many buzz words and such that I don't truely understand.

I guess this is why everyone experiments with so many different types of stuff. Damn it. I see why some artists don't want people checking out their gear/mods/settings. Weaksauce.
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
#11
EDIT: Here we go again!

I've been playing it quite a lot. For a while I played in B standard until I tired of a custom baritone set of d'addario Chromes (smooth flat wound strings)

I put on a set of Ernie Ball Heavy bottom (or whatever) and tuned to drop C and WOW I need to stay with bright strings. The Chromes were clear and gave a TON of bass, but they are too smooth for my metal. Great for stoner metal or jazz. *shrug*

Now I'm back to my original question, what pickups? This is my setup:

*) Agile 2800 27" 6 string baritone (probably staying at B standard tuning, maybe drop B/C)
*) Damage Control Solid Metal (2 high gain sylvania L.G.P. 12ax7's now, might try a couple 12AT7's I picked up.)
*) GFS Pro Delay Classic pedal (analog sounding digital pedal, used lightly)
*) MXR M108 EQ
*) Blackheart BH15 Handsome Devil (modded tone/bright caps, RCA 5751 in V1, RCA L.B.P. 12ax7 in V2, NOS USSR (6n14n-ev) power tubes.)
*) Blackheart 412 slant cab

I have a mullard 12ax7 and 2 Sylvania B.P. 12at7's coming soon, as well as a set of painted-tip Raytheon el84's. I really like the 5751 I have in V1, but I will play around with positions of course. Never heard a mullard IRL.

I also want to try the 12at7's in the damage control just to see.

Settings:
Damage control has the drive as low as I can get it. I have the level at 80%. Scooped, and Treble raised.

The EQ is a cut-only setup, in a scooped mids design except for one of the mid sliders which is boosted. The Gain (input volume) is set -12db.

The amp is even, more or less, with a little boost on the presence, bass. Set to 7 Watt mode (seems to have a thicker harmonic content.) Drive at 50%, Level at 75%

I play metalish stuff, what some might call Nu Metal. I go from one extreme to the other. Clean and smooth jazzy stuff, to power chord metal rhythm riffs. I really dig classical stuff, like Fur Elise.

I have a GFS Vintage Extra Hot bridge which is actually quite nice. I feel a hotter pickup might be useful for picking up stronger harmonics. *shrug* I do not know much about pickups. haha

The neck pickup is the stock Muddy POS. Useless for me.

I was considering a setup like this:
Bridge: GFS Power Rail or GFS Crunchy Rail
Neck: GFS Loud Mouth or GFS Vintage 59

Another option would be a Loud Mouth bridge w/ Alnico Fat Pat neck.

Any opinions/recomendations? I'm going to give GFS another shot as this VEH pickup turned out to be REALLY nice. I dig it quite a lot. There aren't a lot of the hotter output videos out there, so I'm really kinda treading lightly.

If you have recommendations outside of the GFS line, I welcome that as well! I probably won't stop with my first set of new pickups! haha

Thanks again UG!
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
#12
Please?

I know it's a long read, but it's worth it!
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
#14
bridge pup - Dimarzio D-sonic
neck pup - Dimarzio PAF Pro

the D-sonic is ultimately designed for clarity at low tunings, so I think it will work out great for you.
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Tribute (Bare Knuckle Nailbombs)
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul (Seymour Duncan Pegasus and Sentinent)
-Ibanez S470 (Dimarzio D-sonic and Humbucker from Hell)
-PRS SE Custom (Guitarforce Black Diamond and Lord of the Blues)

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
EVH 5150III EL-34 50w
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Boss Super Chorus
Bogner Uberschall
Ibanez DE7 Delay
Electro-Harmonix Power Booster
Fender PT100 Pedal Tuner

Strings:
Ernie Ball Skinny Top/Heavy Bottom 10-52
#15
How about this?

Wait until you've got the guitar, then see how it sounds and decide if anything needs changing...for all you know the stock pickups could sound perfect.
Actually called Mark!

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#16
Quote by steven seagull
How about this?

Wait until you've got the guitar, then see how it sounds and decide if anything needs changing...for all you know the stock pickups could sound perfect.


Post #11 the ts has got the guitar.
#17
Quote by JLT73
bridge pup - Dimarzio D-sonic
neck pup - Dimarzio PAF Pro

the D-sonic is ultimately designed for clarity at low tunings, so I think it will work out great for you.


Yes, I've had the guitar for quite a while, although I see how you could have been confused. The stock neck is MUD. The GFS VEH Bridge is OK. I like it a ton better than the stock bridge.

As far as these go: I would be more apt to get a Full Shred or Invader over the D-Sonic for the bridge.

I have also considered The PAF Pro, GFS '59, SD '59, and the Air Norton for the neck.

Budget? I don't have a budget. I could get QTuners if I wanted, at least a Q Tuner bridge, but I'm unsure if I really want them. *shrug*

That was why I was looking at the GFS pickups. I dig the VEH I have, and I figured I would know if hotter was the way to go by trying the Power Rail or Crunchy Rail bridge. Any of the lower output necks (higher than what I have now) would be great in the neck.

Just looking for input. I've read that the D-Sonic is NOT designed for drop tunings, but understand that this is NOT a drop tuning. B# is standard on a 27". B is only 1 semitone below and only requires a set of 13-65's to be rattle free and clear tone output.
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
Last edited by PimpSmurf at Dec 17, 2009,
#18
Quote by PimpSmurf

Just looking for input. I've read that the D-Sonic is NOT designed for drop tunings, but understand that this is NOT a drop tuning. B# is standard on a 27". B is only 1 semitone below and only requires a set of 13-65's to be rattle free and clear tone output.


on a 27" scale wouldn't 13-65s be rather right for B standard? and what exactly do you mean when you say this is NOT a drop tuning? you're still tuned down to B. and whats this talk of B#?

as for pups, again ill recommend the SD dimebucker. its in my guitar thats in D std and it sounds ok, but i used to have it in a guitar that was C std and it sounded great. the lower you go, the better it will sound. id stay away from PAF pups. probably not the sound you're going for here.


7 String+ ERG Legion!!

LTD Snakebyte
Agile AL-727
ESP Horizon
Warmoth Swirled 7
Schecter C-1 Classic
Frankentele
Laney Ironheart 60w + Avatar Cab

#19
Quote by PimpSmurf


Just looking for input. I've read that the D-Sonic is NOT designed for drop tunings, but understand that this is NOT a drop tuning. B# is standard on a 27". B is only 1 semitone below and only requires a set of 13-65's to be rattle free and clear tone output.


from dimarzios site

"Our first heavy humbucker of the 21st century, the D Sonic™ is a high-output bridge humbucker designed for the extended low end and heavy chords that dropped tuning delivers; with serious treble response for single-note solos and standard tuning. The D Sonic™ is more than just a one-sound pickup, too. In addition to the standard series humbucking sound, our patented design utilizes 4-conductor wiring to access two different single-coil sounds plus parallel humbucking mode, for three additional sounds that are distinctive and versatile."
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Tribute (Bare Knuckle Nailbombs)
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul (Seymour Duncan Pegasus and Sentinent)
-Ibanez S470 (Dimarzio D-sonic and Humbucker from Hell)
-PRS SE Custom (Guitarforce Black Diamond and Lord of the Blues)

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
EVH 5150III EL-34 50w
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Boss Super Chorus
Bogner Uberschall
Ibanez DE7 Delay
Electro-Harmonix Power Booster
Fender PT100 Pedal Tuner

Strings:
Ernie Ball Skinny Top/Heavy Bottom 10-52
#20
Quote by PimpSmurf

Just looking for input. I've read that the D-Sonic is NOT designed for drop tunings, but understand that this is NOT a drop tuning. B# is standard on a 27". B is only 1 semitone below and only requires a set of 13-65's to be rattle free and clear tone output.

As far as the typical frequency range pickups operate within is concernced yes, it is.
Actually called Mark!

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#22
Quote by SYLrules88
on a 27" scale wouldn't 13-65s be rather right for B standard? and what exactly do you mean when you say this is NOT a drop tuning? you're still tuned down to B. and whats this talk of B#?


B standard is where you have to really bulk up the string sizes to keep away the fret buzz and muddy nonsense. I can go down to B# (ie, C) without going past a standard guitar set of 12-52's. That was the point I was making, not that it really helps. haha


as for pups, again ill recommend the SD dimebucker. its in my guitar thats in D std and it sounds ok, but i used to have it in a guitar that was C std and it sounded great. the lower you go, the better it will sound. id stay away from PAF pups. probably not the sound you're going for here.


I've read so much back and forth on the dime bucker which has me scared. I really don't like to drop serious cash, but maybe I will just have to. I guess I'll start hunting used stuff. I don't mind getting let down by a $30 pickup, but a $70+ pickup would bum me out big time.

Quote by JLT73
from dimarzios site:

I've read that, and just about every other site related to metal pickups. I've read repeatedly that they were not designed for lower tunings, where others were (such as the invader. Of course, AFAIK, this is all rumor and BS. *shrug*

I will say that, from what I've heard (youtube/etc) the d sonic doesn't sound like what I'm looking for. The Duncan JB sounds better to my ears. *shrug*

EDIT: I take it all back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akbaTWaogXw&feature=related

After watching that, the D-Sonic is hella impressive!

Quote by steven seagull
As far as the typical frequency range pickups operate within is concernced yes, it is.

Yes, you are right, I guess I just wanted to be sure that it was understood that I wasn't tuning a 25.5" scale strat down to B and expecting anything good to come from it.

Quote by dunkintate
rockfield fatass on the bridge, dimarzio evolution neck

NEAT! Never heard of the rockfield stuff!

That Fatass sounds fantastic! I donno about an evolution neck, but that fatass is on my A list now!
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
Last edited by PimpSmurf at Dec 17, 2009,
#23
I should say output is not nearly as important as tone/character, and clarity. That was one reason I considered the Q-Tuners. This GFS is under 10k output, but it sounds really good. It just seems to have a southern rock vibe, which may be all in my head, but I just can't shake it.

My Solid Metal pedal really does most of the gain work. My amp has a RCA 5751 B.P. in V1 and a Mullard 12AX7 S.G.P. in V2 with USSR 6n14n power tubes. It's not very gain/touchy until I throw the pedal into the loop. The solid metal pedal keeps the amp saturated most of the time anyway.

-JNY
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
#24
Quote by PimpSmurf
B standard is where you have to really bulk up the string sizes to keep away the fret buzz and muddy nonsense. I can go down to B# (ie, C) without going past a standard guitar set of 12-52's. That was the point I was making, not that it really helps. haha


I've read so much back and forth on the dime bucker which has me scared. I really don't like to drop serious cash, but maybe I will just have to. I guess I'll start hunting used stuff. I don't mind getting let down by a $30 pickup, but a $70+ pickup would bum me out big time.


I've read that, and just about every other site related to metal pickups. I've read repeatedly that they were not designed for lower tunings, where others were (such as the invader. Of course, AFAIK, this is all rumor and BS. *shrug*

I will say that, from what I've heard (youtube/etc) the d sonic doesn't sound like what I'm looking for. The Duncan JB sounds better to my ears. *shrug*

EDIT: I take it all back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akbaTWaogXw&feature=related

After watching that, the D-Sonic is hella impressive!


Yes, you are right, I guess I just wanted to be sure that it was understood that I wasn't tuning a 25.5" scale strat down to B and expecting anything good to come from it.


NEAT! Never heard of the rockfield stuff!

That Fatass sounds fantastic! I donno about an evolution neck, but that fatass is on my A list now!

Invaders are crunchy and hot but very coarse sounding. Higher register chords sound like they are missing pieces of sound. They are not voiced for soloing at all. Dimebucker sounds way better especially in mahogany but everybody flames them. They remind me of an slightly smoother Invader but far superior. I have heard good sounding JB's but I have never owned a good sounding JB and I've tried one in everything I have owned. They are shrill and picky to eq. I would rather melt one down for fishing sinkers than solder one in any of my guitars. SH-5 is tight and crunchy with gobs of sustain yet still retains clarity and sweetness. Could stand some added output though. Just spring for a BK Painkiller and you will never look back.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#25
Well Invaders are off my list. haha

Looks like the rockfield fat ass bridge and air norton neck is gonna do it unless someone can steer me otherwise.
Agile 2800 Baritone (Crunchy Rail bridge/Fat Pat Neck) or Douglas WRL 590 -> MXR Super Comp -> -> MXR M108 EQ -> Peavey 5150 212 (Eminence Redcoat Gov) or Bugera V5
#26
Quote by PimpSmurf

I've read that, and just about every other site related to metal pickups. I've read repeatedly that they were not designed for lower tunings, where others were (such as the invader. Of course, AFAIK, this is all rumor and BS. *shrug*

The D-Sonic is designed with lower tunings in mind, that's a fact. The Invader couldn't be worse for them, it's a sludgy, muddy mess of a pickup in standard.

The D-Sonic is balanced, responsive and has exceptional clarity which is exactly what's needed when your strings are vibrating at lower frequencies than normal...it's so precise it's like a scalpel.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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