#1
Wall of Text. Sorry, but it's something that sort of hits close to home for me.

I'm kind of in a predicament. My band is composed of two of my closest friends, myself, and another friend of mine. My rhythm guitarist is one of my closest friends. Alas, therin lies the problem.

Fact is the kid can't sing despite him thinking so. When we started the band we both decided we'd split songs evenly, however, he sings four songs to my two and calls everything squaresies. And song choice is practically up to him, because if he doesn't know it, he has no desire to learn it. He also isn't that good at guitar, but he's pretty solid when it comes to theory, which is his only saving grace. He can't read sheet music or tabs, his song repetoir does not expand past what he already knows and can not/will not learn anything beyond that, he can't JUST back-up sing on ANY song if there's only one guitar in the song, and here's the kicker: He thinks he's none of those things and is completely content with it.

Honestly, the fact he can't read tabs OR sheet music confuses the ever-loving **** out of me.

The other three of us want him to at least stop singing. My drummer just wants him gone or to just play rhythm guitar, my bassist and I just want him to stop singing as he's a solid rhythm player.

So we've all decided to give him an ultimatum in two weeks because our bassist needs undisclosed items from him: Learn tabs, sing better, and become more open minded or not show up to our next practice.

Here's the other kicker on our part here: He knows none of this is happening yet. We're going to put our drummer now on vocals with me singing a few songs, and we've already auditioned a drummer that's practically in. My bassist and I feel kinda bad because he's our best friend. Our drummer now deems it a necessary evil.

Basically, am I in the wrong here? He's my one of my best friends, but I feel it's something that needs to be done.
#2
I think you should explain the matter to him and how you feel. Give him a chance to only play rhythm.
[img]http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3096/asilaydyingsig5ey.png[/img]
#4
I meant give him a chance to be in the band and not sing.
[img]http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3096/asilaydyingsig5ey.png[/img]
#6
Quote by Wrst_Plyr_Evr
am I in the wrong here?

No, because
Quote by Wrst_Plyr_Evr
Basically, (. . .) it's something that needs to be done.

you actually said it yourself.
Sorryz for me bad engrish.

Quote by OnlyIbanez12
I just cut myself shaving my pubes...
#7
The problem most likely stems from not giving him any feedback or communication at all. How would you know if you're good or bad unless someone gives you some pointers?

In regards to learning extra songs, that is annoying. Explain to him that if you want to be a working cover band you need at least 3-4 hours of music ready, and that everyone in the band should choose songs to cover. If he's still not open to the idea, tell him that unfortunately you'll need a rhythm guitarist who can "grow with the band".

In regards to him being a poor singer and not knowing it, this is quite simple. Videotape your set and watch it as a group. Talk about how things could be improved, constructive criticism is the key.

Now the above is what I would say if you wanted to communicate with your band mate. However you want to be all little quiet girls and dump your partner for not doing something that they know nothing about.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#8
he would be more mad that u got new members behind his back
[img]http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3096/asilaydyingsig5ey.png[/img]
#9
Quote by AlanHB
The problem most likely stems from not giving him any feedback or communication at all. How would you know if you're good or bad unless someone gives you some pointers?

In regards to learning extra songs, that is annoying. Explain to him that if you want to be a working cover band you need at least 3-4 hours of music ready, and that everyone in the band should choose songs to cover. If he's still not open to the idea, tell him that unfortunately you'll need a rhythm guitarist who can "grow with the band".

In regards to him being a poor singer and not knowing it, this is quite simple. Videotape your set and watch it as a group. Talk about how things could be improved, constructive criticism is the key.

Now the above is what I would say if you wanted to communicate with your band mate. However you want to be all little quiet girls and dump your partner for not doing something that they know nothing about.


Part of the problem is that he has this pre-concieved notion in his head that he really is a great singer and that even the slightest mention that he can't sing makes him angry. Example: We're walking to class a week or two ago and we're talking to the band and he says that our bassist can't sing if his life depended on it. I say, "Well, none of us can sing. None of us. Not me, not you, not Rico(drummer), not Sean(bassist). None of us can. We're mediocre at best."(I'm also paraphrasing. I don't remember how exactly it went since it was so long ago.) and he immediately goes on the defensive saying how he's been singing since he came out of the womb that his dad taught him and he's so great at solfege(even thought he can't read sheet music. Irony, amirite?) and he's so completely awesome, etc.

Essentially, none of us can tell him without him being a total douche*** about it and possibly storming off. Hence why we haven't.

Otherwise, pretty solid advice. I appreciate it.
#10
I had a singer/bassist who also believed he could sing better than anyone and in reality he couldn't sing to save his life. You just have to be honest with him and if he throws a fit then his place isn't in the band. If he's your friend he should be able to listen to you.
Your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion. It doesn't make you right. It doesn't make you better. It doesn't make you god. Everyone has their own view and that view is neither right or wrong.

Ignorance destroys music.
#11
Quote by scream_it
I had a singer/bassist who also believed he could sing better than anyone and in reality he couldn't sing to save his life. You just have to be honest with him and if he throws a fit then his place isn't in the band. If he's your friend he should be able to listen to you.


That's worse case scenario. I'd really like to keep him as a rhythm player. It's just that he's going to take his singing comment with a shaker of salt
#12
Quote by Wrst_Plyr_Evr
That's worse case scenario. I'd really like to keep him as a rhythm player. It's just that he's going to take his singing comment with a shaker of salt


My point about the videotape is that you won't have to say anything. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to hear his faults as a result of watching it.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#13
the problem i see is that you've already laid the ground work for a course of action that leads t him not being in the band, while you still harbor the notion of him staying on in a rythm capacity (unless you mean to add a vocalist - your current drummer - who will not be playing an instrument besides vocals).

not telling someone in your band what you really think = passive aggressive bullshit. you might think you're sparing him or yourselves because most likely he'll get butt-hurt and react poorly, but you're only delaying the inevitable.

if you tell him he can't sing (if this is true, which, probability-wise, it is), and he says "f u! if i'm not singing i'm not playing period," you simply say "i'm sorry you feel that way. well, see ya around !" guitarists are a dime a dozen. go out and find someone who'll work with the band to make it better... not to mention one who will bother to learn the damn songs!

on a side note, your link in your sig, is that of your current band w/ douche singer? i haven't checked them out yet, but i plan on taking a look... see if i can offer any specific advice.

oh, and how is he good at theory and yet can't read standard OR tab??? i don't understand this as it's not impossible, but highly impractical. does anyone else in your band know theory? if not, (1) he probably just read a "music theory for dummies" book and is feeding you bullshit that he himself doesn't truely understand, and (2) the rest of you should start hitting the books in this area. when is the last time you saw a journalist who didn't know how to read? kinda' the same thing.
#14
Quote by GrisKy
the problem i see is that you've already laid the ground work for a course of action that leads t him not being in the band, while you still harbor the notion of him staying on in a rythm capacity (unless you mean to add a vocalist - your current drummer - who will not be playing an instrument besides vocals).

not telling someone in your band what you really think = passive aggressive bullshit. you might think you're sparing him or yourselves because most likely he'll get butt-hurt and react poorly, but you're only delaying the inevitable.

if you tell him he can't sing (if this is true, which, probability-wise, it is), and he says "f u! if i'm not singing i'm not playing period," you simply say "i'm sorry you feel that way. well, see ya around !" guitarists are a dime a dozen. go out and find someone who'll work with the band to make it better... not to mention one who will bother to learn the damn songs!

on a side note, your link in your sig, is that of your current band w/ douche singer? i haven't checked them out yet, but i plan on taking a look... see if i can offer any specific advice.

oh, and how is he good at theory and yet can't read standard OR tab??? i don't understand this as it's not impossible, but highly impractical. does anyone else in your band know theory? if not, (1) he probably just read a "music theory for dummies" book and is feeding you bullshit that he himself doesn't truely understand, and (2) the rest of you should start hitting the books in this area. when is the last time you saw a journalist who didn't know how to read? kinda' the same thing.


Youtube link in my sig is JUST me and nobody else. Feel free to check it out, though . I currently am lead guitar AND part-time lead vocalist and the other guitarist is the other part-time lead vocalist.

The thing about finding a new guitarist, yes they ARE a dime a dozen, but finding one who plays ska and NOT -core or metal is extremely difficult.

To give you an idea of how good his theory is, my bassist has been playing piano almost since he was expelled from the womb, I've got my basics down and some chord work, and he's somewhere in the middle. So we're ok on that. How and why he can't read sheet or tab is beyond me. I don't know either, man.

But the plan so far is that my drummer now and I would be splitting vocals since he's a theatre major and CAN sing (quite well, actually) and then I'd slowly fade away except for maybe a song or two.
#15
i checked out your youtube page dude. i listened to "i can be sexy too" or whatever it's called (no offense, just don't remember exact phrasing). overall it sounded good, but there were a couple things that you might want to focus on (and yes, i saw the blurb on the vid saying you learned the song at like 1am the day before): vocals were a little pitchy, slightly flat in most cases. timbre was not good, but i'm 100% sure the micing was to blame, so take that wit a grain of salt. i tried to listen "through" the mic/poor room acoustics to get a better idea of your vocal timbre, and for the most part i failed, but i think it works well for your style judging by your inflections. like i said, overall not too bad, and perfectly acceptable for your average coffe house type gig. good work.
#16
Quote by GrisKy
i checked out your youtube page dude. i listened to "i can be sexy too" or whatever it's called (no offense, just don't remember exact phrasing). overall it sounded good, but there were a couple things that you might want to focus on (and yes, i saw the blurb on the vid saying you learned the song at like 1am the day before): vocals were a little pitchy, slightly flat in most cases. timbre was not good, but i'm 100% sure the micing was to blame, so take that wit a grain of salt. i tried to listen "through" the mic/poor room acoustics to get a better idea of your vocal timbre, and for the most part i failed, but i think it works well for your style judging by your inflections. like i said, overall not too bad, and perfectly acceptable for your average coffe house type gig. good work.


Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Some of it is the mic, but most of it is me. That was also done a few months ago and I'd like to think that I've improved since then. Then again, that's not really my place to say. I get quite a bit of praise in my music theory class full of chamber choir kids and I've never had anything even remotely resembling lessons. But oh well,
#17
How about this.... record your band and post it in the appropriate thread here and get feedback from people who don't know you - or him. Don't ask specifically about the vocals - just for feedback in general. If he's not a good singer, that will usually be the most picked-upon element.

Then show him the thread, and the fact it was posted without baiting or coaching to elicit certain types of responses. If he takes the "I'm not crazy, it's the whole rest of the world" defense then he's not cut out for being in a band.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#20
Quote by Wrst_Plyr_Evr
Could you explain this to me? I just woke up and it's not really making any sense atm


He means that if he takes those who critique poorly as if have no idea what they're talking about, instead of finally manning up to what his abilities really are, he deserves the boot.
#21
Yes.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.