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#1
note before you start this is not your 'which is better' type of thread but more a 'what do i need type'

some of you may remember that a couple of weeks ago i was asking question about what amp i should get (i wanted a solid state) but im starting to think i might get a tube but im not sure

my current gear include a squier standard strat and a boss ds-1 pedal used with a fender 10W amp

while i like the sound of a tube (i need sound quality and would like an amp that could last me a few years) i have a few questions (sort of VS SS amps)...note i have less than 400 euro to spend and that would be after christmas (all question are for amps in my price range)

are tubes loud enough for band practise?
would they be good to carry around?
are they difficult to maintain?
are they expensive to replace tubes?
if i were to get a cheap 5W Tube amp would a small cabinet be expensive?
would they be good for home practise?

btw i like grunge, classic and alt rock...dont need an amp for any heavier music

thanks
#2
Tubes are louder at the same wattage level. (or some people say they just SOUND louder. Meh. They seem to be louder anyhow.)

Some tube amps are built like a rock, some arnt. Much teh same as solid state really.

Maintainence. I have a tube amp, it brock within a year. I think that I am just unlucky though - my friend has never had to replace his tubes in 5.

Expensive? DEpends how many and what quality you are looking for. Costs me about 50 pounds a pop. (plus 10 for labor)

DEpends what one. - Krank - yes probably where as a blackstar - NAH.

They are good everywhere if you pick eh right one for you.

Time on earth is like butterscotch; you really want more, even though it will probably just make you ill.



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#3
if i get a small one it would only require about tubes (like the fender champion 600)
i play quite a bit (everyday for at least2 hours but in summer easily 4 or 5) so i think that i might have to change them often

a solid state is more practical but i want the big purchase after this to be a proper fender prob a jaguar HH...reallylik eit)
#4
are tubes loud enough for band practise?

Tubes are 5 times louder that SS, so any 5W Tube amp will crush your 10W SS

would they be good to carry around?

Well, Tube Amps are louder...and also heavier that SS amp. Depends on the size. And fragility I guess they more fragile than SS but anyway you don't suposse to go kickin' your freakin' amp around... don't you?

are they difficult to maintain?

No, keep it clean and treat them well. Not much more than that.

are they expensive to replace tubes?

Depends on how many tubes it has... tubes alone are not so expensive, sometimes is the handwork if you cannot do it yourself what inflate the costs. BUT, I konw people with 10+ years old amps and never changed tubes yet. In may case one of my amps is already 5+ years and still rocks like the forst day.

if i were to get a cheap 5W Tube amp would a small cabinet be expensive?

It all depends on the cabinet, brand, especifications, speaker, construction, etc. An average cabinet good for a 5W amp would be around $100 to $150 (I'm really guessing the price since I oive in Europe)

would they be good for home practise?

As you already know tubes are a lot louder than SS, so unless it a small amp or your a volume freak you won't be playing a tube amp for home practice. There is several small tbue amps that goes great for home/room practice, my fave being at the time the VOX AC4. Why? Easy it has great tone + you can regulate the watts between 4, 1 and 1/4W which makes this little beast perfect for home practice.

Hope this helps you...
#5
thtanks a lot

i meant to carry around like in a car although i might have to walk a bit (like 20-30 walking normally)
i read that you have to stay putting them on standby and stuff before you switch them off and thing...i just dont want to damage it

i was thinking about the fender champion 600...seems really nice but i might need a cabinet
are there any cabinets around 65-75 watts that wouldnt be so hard to take in a car...not some 4 speaker monster if you know what i mean

would i be able to plug it into a normal amp if im at a friend (that snt a cabinet)

would a cheap tube amp like that make so much difference in sound and would it last till say a fender lower end guitar (but american...around 750 euro so)

btw im european too so speaking in euros is just fine (but i know more or less how much dollars are)
#6
Quote by Genghis_khan
are tubes loud enough for band practise?

Tubes are 5 times louder that SS, so any 5W Tube amp will crush your 10W SS

would they be good to carry around?

Well, Tube Amps are louder...and also heavier that SS amp. Depends on the size. And fragility I guess they more fragile than SS but anyway you don't suposse to go kickin' your freakin' amp around... don't you?

are they difficult to maintain?

No, keep it clean and treat them well. Not much more than that.

are they expensive to replace tubes?

Depends on how many tubes it has... tubes alone are not so expensive, sometimes is the handwork if you cannot do it yourself what inflate the costs. BUT, I konw people with 10+ years old amps and never changed tubes yet. In may case one of my amps is already 5+ years and still rocks like the forst day.

if i were to get a cheap 5W Tube amp would a small cabinet be expensive?

It all depends on the cabinet, brand, especifications, speaker, construction, etc. An average cabinet good for a 5W amp would be around $100 to $150 (I'm really guessing the price since I oive in Europe)

would they be good for home practise?

As you already know tubes are a lot louder than SS, so unless it a small amp or your a volume freak you won't be playing a tube amp for home practice. There is several small tbue amps that goes great for home/room practice, my fave being at the time the VOX AC4. Why? Easy it has great tone + you can regulate the watts between 4, 1 and 1/4W which makes this little beast perfect for home practice.

Hope this helps you...

good post, but I'm not sure x5 louder is quite right - its still true however that a 5w (or probably even a 3w) Tube amp will crush your 10w SS. I'll put another vote in for the AC4 - great little amp!
#7
looked up the ac4
its says its a head
does that mean wouldnt be able to use it by itself (i dont think so just clearing it up) cos for pracise i wont use the cabinet
Last edited by '93 at Oct 24, 2009,
#9
they seem cool as well...so is a tube amp (the sipler ones) and a cheap cabinet (can anyone recommend one of these as well) better than an expensive solid state amp
#11
so let me get this straight

cant get just an amp and a cab...id need a head as well
and i cant not get the head and cab cos i need something to practise with

so id need an amp, a head and a cab?
wow thats expensive right?
#12
Quote by '93
so let me get this straight

cant get just an amp and a cab...id need a head as well
and i cant not get the head and cab cos i need something to practise with

so id need an amp, a head and a cab?
wow thats expensive right?


There are tube combos you know...

And DO NOT run a head without a cabinet, it'll fry the insides.
If you do get a head and a cab, you have to make sure the ohms match.
You can't run a cabinet alone either.

It's cheaper to get just a combo, but, if you get a good cab, you can buy another head later on, and you won't have to but the cab, so it'll be cheaper.
If you're not thinking about upgrading, then get a combo.

EDIT: And, I'm not sure what you mean because of your badly written question, but I think you mean you can't get a head and a cab because you need to practise with it?
The cab won't make it louder, if you have a 5watt tube amp, you can still practise with it at your own house, it'll have a volume control...
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Roger Waters - 12th May!
Last edited by LezPaulEpiphone at Oct 24, 2009,
#13
no the amp is the head, and the cabinet is the speaker. or a combo is both of those put together. And a matching head and cab are typically a hair more expensive than the combo, i think mostly because the people who buy them separately want to use another brand cabinet with that head, so the company wants more of their money or something or another.so to play you either need this

guitar>>>>head>>>>>cabinet

or

guitar>>>>combo
Last edited by kurtebirdi at Oct 24, 2009,
#15
sorry deleted message by mistake
post #15
what im trying to say is:
can i get a 5W combo and attach it to the cab withou a separatehead

eg.i get the vox ac4 tv and i get the matching cab
but i would be able to play the ac4 tv by itself becuase it is a combo

right?

would the cab increase my volume cos you confused me (i presume it does...whats the point otherwise)
#16
so if i were to get:
vox ac4 tv
Crate GT112SL (just as an example)

would i be able to use the TV by itself when i want to practise and then use the cab *the crate) when i want to jam with my friends
#18
i havent decided yet (when i get enough money ill ask again)...just wanted to figure out how it works

while the smallcombo amps are in my price range how much are the bigger ones (dont want to spend a lot) i think one speaker would be enough
#20
Quote by '93
sorry deleted message by mistake
post #15
what im trying to say is:
can i get a 5W combo and attach it to the cab withou a separatehead

eg.i get the vox ac4 tv and i get the matching cab
but i would be able to play the ac4 tv by itself becuase it is a combo

right?

would the cab increase my volume cos you confused me (i presume it does...whats the point otherwise)


If you buy a combo, you don't need a cabinet. Cabinets are only necessary if you have a head because the head itself doesn't have a speaker.

Quote by '93
so if i were to get:
vox ac4 tv
Crate GT112SL (just as an example)

would i be able to use the TV by itself when i want to practise and then use the cab *the crate) when i want to jam with my friends


Again, a cabinet isn't needed if you buy a combo. Granted, a cab may give you a fuller sound but it is not going to be any louder.
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Last edited by Sunshine86 at Oct 24, 2009,
#21
Quote by '93
if i get a small one it would only require about tubes (like the fender champion 600)
i play quite a bit (everyday for at least2 hours but in summer easily 4 or 5) so i think that i might have to change them often

a solid state is more practical but i want the big purchase after this to be a proper fender prob a jaguar HH...reallylik eit)


those single-ended tube amps like the fender champion are going to be the easiest/cheapest to swap tubes on, mainly because they generally only have 2 tubes, and because they're single-ended they don't have to be biased, so it's more or less just like changing a lightbulb. they won't be loud enough for a gig, though, and will still be really, really loud in a home environment.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
ok...so i would not be able to plug it into a cabinet for a louder sound?
or must i get a louder amp in order to play with my band
#23
5 watts of output is 5 watts of output regardless of what you plug it into.
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#24
ye but watts isnt equal to volume
so how can a massive speaker be the same volume as a smaller one?
whats te point then of etting a head and a cab if they are going to be the same volume as an the same combo amp
#25
Quote by '93
ok...so i would not be able to plug it into a cabinet for a louder sound?
or must i get a louder amp in order to play with my band


No, It will not become louder then...As you have just been told.

Quote by '93
ye but watts isnt equal to volume
so how can a massive speaker be the same volume as a smaller one?
whats te point then of etting a head and a cab if they are going to be the same volume as an the same combo amp


They generally won't be rated a the same wattage, if you have a 12" speaker and a 2" speaker. (although they can be).
I told you what the point was earlier, you clearly did not read my post.
Wait.



Roger Waters - 12th May!
Last edited by LezPaulEpiphone at Oct 24, 2009,
#26
no i read it...just forgot

so is it worth it to get the tube or should i get an SS...i need an amp to practise with my band
#27
Quote by '93
no i read it...just forgot

so is it worth it to get the tube or should i get an SS...i need an amp to practise with my band


I'm just going to say what other people have said...But here it goes.

Tube
Good:
  • Better sound quailty (generally).
  • Takes pedals well.
  • Better sound quality at higher volumes.

Bad:
  • Needs tube changes once every 2 years or so (depending on many factors, e.g How much it's been playing, how loud you play it etc.)
  • "More things can go wrong".
  • Less Effects.


SS
Good:
  • Don't need to change any tubes.
  • Good for practise.
  • More effects.

Bad:
  • Normally they don't take pedals well.
  • At full volume, they don't sound as good.


Tube will sound 2/3x louder than an SS amp would, so you don't need one with crazy high wattages; I can easily get over my drummer with a 15watt tube amp.
If it was me, I'd go for tube, but it depends if your willing to pay more for the better sound quality.
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Roger Waters - 12th May!
#28
Quote by '93
ok...so i would not be able to plug it into a cabinet for a louder sound?
or must i get a louder amp in order to play with my band


yeah, that'd be louder, but it still probably wouldn't be loud enough. and you normally don't have any headroom at all with those low wattage amps.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
ok i get it...
now i dont know what to do

i need an amp for practise at home and one for bandpractis...any ideas (i can afford like 300 euro after chrismas)

would the stacked version be any good?
Last edited by '93 at Oct 24, 2009,
#30
Quote by '93
ok i get it...
now i dont know what to do

i need an amp for practise at home and one for bandpractis...any ideas (i can afford like 300 euro after chrismas)

would the stacked version be any good?


Stacked version of which amp?
And I hope your not talking about buying two separate amps; you don't need to.

EDIT: Bare in mind what I said about the advantages and disadvantages of combos and stacks...I'd go with a combo in your position.
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Roger Waters - 12th May!
Last edited by LezPaulEpiphone at Oct 24, 2009,
#31
Quote by LezPaulEpiphone
Stacked version of which amp?
And I hope your not talking about buying two separate amps; you don't need to.


no there is a stacked version of the vox ac4
i was wondering if i could get the normal combo and just combine it with the amp

the head alone costs as much as the combo so i didnt really see anypoint in getting the head...i though maybe i could get the combo and just attach it to a ab if i needed to

but i was not going to get 2 amps
#32
Quote by '93
no there is a stacked version of the vox ac4
i was wondering if i could get the normal combo and just combine it with the amp

the head alone costs as much as the combo so i didnt really see anypoint in getting the head...i though maybe i could get the combo and just attach it to a ab if i needed to

but i was not going to get 2 amps


Okay, you don't need to get a cab to go with the combo, it won't make it much louder at all.
You probably could combine the two, but you might need to mod it to give it a speaker out, and unless you know what you're doing, I wouldn't advise in trying.
Wait.



Roger Waters - 12th May!
Last edited by LezPaulEpiphone at Oct 24, 2009,
#33
ok...can i ask why the 5 watt head costs as much as the combo?
is there a big difference?
#34
Quote by '93
ok...can i ask why the 5 watt head costs as much as the combo?
is there a big difference?


No, it'll sound exactly the same if you put the same speaker through it.
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Roger Waters - 12th May!
#35
no what i meant is what is the point of buying the head and cab when the combo costs less

is there something else that im missing?
#36
Quote by '93
no what i meant is what is the point of buying the head and cab when the combo costs less

is there something else that im missing?


People that get heads are usually going to be using a different cab with it. With the head, you can hook it up to any cab with the correct wattage and ohms rating, which offers a lot more customization since you can replace the cab constantly. You'll just want to go with the combo.
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#37
Quote by '93
no what i meant is what is the point of buying the head and cab when the combo costs less

is there something else that im missing?


Dude, you don't listen! I've told you twice.
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#38
Quote by LezPaulEpiphone
Dude, you don't listen! I've told you twice.


you saidthat they will sound exactly the same...since they are 5 watss they will be a the same volume...what i asked was why is there such a big price difference which no one answers

i know that you can chane the cab and the head but it still doesnt make sense that the combo costs LESS thanthe head as it is the head + a speaker (not litterally but it is basicaly a combo version of the head and cab)

so...if you can get it combo wat is the point of getting it head and cab when the head and cab is moce expensive

(the only difference that i was told was that if i need to change the head i wouldnt need to get another cab...but if originally the combo costed as much as the head then i wouldnt have spent the money on a cab so if i do get a new head i would be able to bu they cab then
Last edited by '93 at Oct 25, 2009,
#39
generally, for some reason, a head version of an amp on its own will be a bit a bit cheaper than the combo because the combo has a speaker built into it. so you're paying a bit more for the speaker as well.

The big difference is obviously that you can't play the head on it's own - you need to get a cab. Combos don't require a separate cab. A head plus a cab might cost you a bit more than a combo.

But the point of getting the head and not the combo, is that maybe you want a different cab than the one the manufacturer offers. With the head, there's always the possibility of customizing and upgrading. with a combo, unless you want to go through the trouble of changing the speaker, you're pretty much stuck with what they give you. But most combos come with extension speaker jacks so, if you want, you could spend extra money on a cab and use that.
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#40
thank you

the main reason i was asking this was becase on some shops the head is like $200 and the combo is like $180

so would i be able to use that extension speaker jack to plug into a cab and play with my band? cos if no then i dont really see a point of it being included
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