#1
so i took my 6505+ to a local guitar shop today, and i was in search for an OD boost and an EQ pedal. the guy was a bassist and he was saying, you don't need an OD or EQ, just turn your bass down and crank up your mids! you need alot of mids to be heard not an OD or EQ at all wont help you. i'm looking for a pretty metalcore tone i guess you could say
Gear List:
Guitars:
Schecter C7 Hellraiser
Jackson JS20 Dinky
Ibanez MTM1 (Slipknot Signature)
Amps:
Peavey 6505+ Head (with Grill Mod)
Cab and Effects:
Orange PPC412(BLK)
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
#3
Sort of. Turning your mids up will help you cut through the mix in the band (and it'll give a bit more OD too).

But, there isn't anything wrong with an OD pedal, or an EQ.
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#4
An OD can tighten up your sound rather than boost it. An EQ is good if you want to change your tone half way through a song (like for a solo etc). The EQ on your amp is normally enough to shape your tone to how you want it to sound, but those pedals can be very helpful.
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#5
He is correct to an extent. Cranking mids allows you to be heard. Cranking the treble is often harsh and painful to the ears and the bass guitar covers most of the lower-end frequencies, which leaves only your mid-range to be heard. However this does not make an OD/EQ pedal redundant at all.
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#6
all the bands like Slipknot, I Killed The Prom Queen and Parkway they all scoop there mids heaps don't they? how do i get a tone like them?
Gear List:
Guitars:
Schecter C7 Hellraiser
Jackson JS20 Dinky
Ibanez MTM1 (Slipknot Signature)
Amps:
Peavey 6505+ Head (with Grill Mod)
Cab and Effects:
Orange PPC412(BLK)
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
#7
Quote by jamesy_pwd
all the bands like Slipknot, I Killed The Prom Queen and Parkway they all scoop there mids heaps don't they? how do i get a tone like them?

nope. ive seen an interview with mick from slipknot and he is all about the mids man. prom queen and parkway have fairly generic 5150 tones, the only real difference is that parkway can actualy play their instruments live. compare the parkway and the prom queen dvd's and you will see what i mean
#8
oh yeah ill totally agree there, but there playing doesnt take away from there tone
Gear List:
Guitars:
Schecter C7 Hellraiser
Jackson JS20 Dinky
Ibanez MTM1 (Slipknot Signature)
Amps:
Peavey 6505+ Head (with Grill Mod)
Cab and Effects:
Orange PPC412(BLK)
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
#9
he's correct but if you don't necessarily want your guitar to poke through all the time, an OD or an EQ can be very helpful in allowing you to switch between your rhythm and lead tone. most OD pedals have a mid-boost anyway.
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Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#10
the guy was just trying to give you some generic advice in order to maybe save you a few bones... and he was right for it. play with your EQ before you spend on anything.

there's and old story about the guitarist in search of the perfect tone, so he buys a pedal, then two, hen half a dozen and a couple rack processors and tries wiring them half a million different ways into different cabs with different speakers, and he swaps his pickups a few times... you see what i'm getting at.

then he goes to a show and notices the band's guitarist is playing the same kinda' guitar that he's got... and hey! that's his same amp! and he says to himself, "that's it! THAT's the tone I've been looking for!" but that dude didn't have any pedals.

am I saying it always goes down like that? no, god no. but be selective when it cmes to your gear.
#11
Yeah I think mids are what helps you cut through.

Scoopin your mids will just 'erase' you sound.

Lots of stories of dudes with Mesa Dual Rec's that don't cut through anything like a Peavey 5150 (or Bugera 6262 as they sound the same) because it is more of a mid range sound.

Don't go crazy and don't try to scoop your sound out of the mix...try to keep a decent balance with your band mates etc so you stand out...stand out just enough to keep everything sounding good.

Mastering an album can really change the tone etc...live tone is much different.
#12
sorry Axe-Man, but your post is so full of half-truths and generalizations that I have no choice but to award you a wft stack... well, half stack and a face palm







and a llama

#13
Quote by GrisKy
sorry Axe-Man, but your post is so full of half-truths and generalizations that I have no choice but to award you a wft stack... well, half stack and a face palm







and a llama



I kinda like llama's...

But I'm not so sure about the facepalm...mastered tone is hugely compressed (like 1 or 2db of dynamic range) and makes the instruments sit in the mix 'just so'.

Often, everything is scooped for metal and lots of bottom end is taken out of the guitars so the bass and guitar have room to breath...

Big bottom end heavy guitar isn't so great on an album...in reality you just don't hear it very often.

I rarely hear a 'real' live guitar sound on a mainstream album...probably only early Chris Isaac (?) with his 'real' recorded Fender tones.

It's always a mastered guitar tone that doesn't actually sound like a live guitar rig does.

Mesa's have a bad rep for being swamped by mid heavy guitar amps...hey I don't own one but I've read dozens of posts about it...seems like a national problem for the scooped mid brigade!

Heavily scooped mids sound ok at home but live...I'm not sure.

Like anything you want to balance with your outfit? Whether it's with EQ, pedals, amps whatever. Get a decent sound you are happy with and sounds good FOH.

Is it this that deserved the regal sacred llama award?
#14
it's more that these kinda' specific examples needed to be there the first time, not so much that they were wrong, because I thought I knew where you were going with your earlier post, but you can never assume (here, anyways) that TS will be keeping up.

also, about mastering and dropping a couple db's of dynamic range in favor of levels that "keep up with the jones," the sad truth is that you're right (should give you a little hint as to which ide I take on the compression war).

when you say "everything" is scooped for metal, I hope (and think) you're talking about the master channel, which is true for much more than just metal. it's what gives your mixes the "polished" hi-fi sound (well... when used with gentle hands along with other outboard - or ITB - gear). a nice "slight smile" is usually just right on a master. and while I agree that scooping mids on a guitar will sink it into the mix rather than giving it it's own range to be distinct, there are many instances when that's exactly what you want in order to create space in the freq spectrum to allow another instrument to sit in the same position in the sound field (same pan). this is what I mean by "half-truths," that it's by no means an across-the-board kinda' thing.

also, i'm trying to get where you're coming from regarding the dual rec sound... yes, being a "modern/american" voiced amp most often loaded with 6L6's, it does have a rounder tone than say a jcm800, but I've never had any trouble making it cut through with some slight (and sometimes not so slight) EQ cutting and a little nudge in the presence range... not so sure on the 5150 being the best comparrison for an opposite sound though. one other thng about mesas, their cabs and HIGHLY resonant and carry entirely too much low end. often people make the mistake of blaming the head, when a less resonant cab does the trick just fine. mic choice and placement also makes a world of difference.

hope you caught the light-heartedness in my previos post, here's a llama head with matched laugh cab...



#15
Quote by GrisKy
hope you caught the light-heartedness in my previos post, here's a llama head with matched laugh cab...



Are you on drugs?

If you want more of a percussive, tight tone, tyr out some overdrives. If you want to boost gain or level in specific frequencies, an EQ would work fine. Now don't just go out and buy a bunch of pedals and waste a bunch of money, try some out, and play more with the amp too; if you think you need to boost for more gain, then your not EQing very well.

What exactly is it that you want to do with these pedals? Figure out a goal, something you might want to change. Just for the hell of it is an alright reason too, but it isn't very cost-efficient.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#16
you clearly take this place way too seriously... and no, but i sometimes wish i were.
#17
I will wear my sacred llama with pride.

I find frequently a quest goes as follows:

Q: I want to play Metallica, what do I do?

A: scoop mids...

I want to play Paradise Lost...scoop mids...

My dog has fleas...scoop his mids...

;o)

I guess I am guilty of passing on half truths...

I love Mesa's but on the HCAF (Harmony Central Amp Forum), they are always going on about Mesa's and their lack of cutting through...I'm just repeating it ad nauseum as it seems like a pass time for them over there.

As for the 'Are you on drugs?' guy...the OP was talking about a 6505+...IMHO I really don't think it needs an OD as it has if anything, already plenty of gain on tap.

An EQ maybe but the post was originally about whether he could get his amp to cut through without extraneous pedals.

If you want more of a percussive, tight tone, tyr out some overdrives.

It's not like a 6L6 equipped 6505 isn't without a tonne of low end thump already...it's like a swarm of angry bees with tiny chainsaws...

I find my 6262 (basically a 6505+) is already pretty percussive and feral without any pedals into the gain channel...and I've got the swiss army knife of pedals in the M13...I've tried quite a few and I don't think it needs any...just a little tweaking of the EQ.

hmm OD anyone?

OD works nicely on the clean channel though for just a little bit of grit for blues etc.
#18
If you're going to be using an OD on your 6505+ for more gain, then there should be something wrong with your EQ.
You can use an OD to tighten up your sound though, turn the level way up (zero drive on the pedal) and turn the gain down on your amp a little to compensate. The OD will boost your sound while adding some mids to it and taking away some bottom end (which you can turn up on your amp if it bothers you). This will result in what people call a 'tighter sound'.
Try it out and see if it is worth the money to you.