#1
]I have a crate gx15. It's ok, but I need something that allows me the ability to use a wide array of effects/models. I'm looking at either a line 6, or a peavey vypyr. Haven't decided on the wattage yet, I'll be playing with other people, so it needs to be able to get pretty loud.

As for the features, I'd like to know which amp you'd reccomend out of the following: 30w spider 4, 75w spider 4, 30w vypyr, 75w vypyr, or a different amp. If
you could give the pros/cons of the amp you reccomend, that would be awesome.

Note: this is just to get an idea of what I should be looking at, and by no means is final.
The guitar makes music. The man makes the guitar.

Gear:
Epiphone Junior
Crate GX-15
Deltalab chorus pedal


Money sucks.
Last edited by virx67 at Oct 24, 2009,
#2
the only modelling amps i have ever liked was the VOX ones...and only on the clean amp models. IMO the OD channels on all modelling amps are pretty crappy
#5
Quote by IdntNedUrCvlWar


+1
Vypyr tube is definitely a candidate.

EDIT: ^^ And the vypyr tube is a better sounding amp even at lower volumes. Make a better suggestion if you have one.

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Last edited by Zoso1994 at Oct 24, 2009,
#6
Quote by JayLacelle
thats complete overkill...he wants to upgrade to a better sounding amp not one that's loud enough to play arenas.



Hey 120 watts all tube isn't THAT loud
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#7
I really like the Roland Cube 30. I also had a Bass Cube 30 that was awesome. The Vox Valvetronix have always sounded muffled to me, but maybe they'd work through a nicer cab.
#8
What you probably want is a Blues Junior coupled with a POD XT Live or above. Be everything you'd ever need and sound better then the run of the mill modeling amps out there. Plus give you the ability to add analog pedals if it strikes you.
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#9
I really like the way Line 6 Flextones sound...their models are taken straight from the Line 6 Pod X3.
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#10
I don't think I mentioned this, but my budget is kinda limited. About $300 is my limit. If there are any amp/pedal combinations that would achieve the same result as a modelling amp, please let me know.
The guitar makes music. The man makes the guitar.

Gear:
Epiphone Junior
Crate GX-15
Deltalab chorus pedal


Money sucks.
#11
Line 6 flextone, or Vypyr tube 60

search craigslist...you should be able to find a flextone for about that, maybe a bit more, but it's definitely better than the modelers you suggested in the OP
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#12
Well, I've played the Vypyr 15 and the Vyper Tube 120 in real world situations (i.e. - I admit it...I was curious about the 15, and it's cheap, so I bought one, and I used the 120 Tube for rehearsal). I thought the 120 Tube would sound different because it obviously has 6L6's in the power section. But it didn't sound much different than the 15, just louder. I didn't notice any tonal benefit at all, and I was kinda disappointed.

I think my favorites are the Vox VT's. It has a 12AX7 in the preamp. If I had to choose, I'd rather have a tube preamp and solid state power section, then vice versa. Now, I'm not sure how much plate voltage there is on that 12AX7...and this is a good time to point out that you have to be aware of that. Just because something has a tube in it doesn't mean it's actually doing much of anything. I can tell you that when you turn the new VT's on, they don't come to life like a solid state amp, they lag behind while the tube is warming up, like a tube amp. I can also tell you that the reason why I like the VT's as my favorite modeling amp (I play a Mesa Roadster, I'm not really into modeling amps, but if I had to choose...), is because they 'FEEL' better than the other one's, they seem more responsive to dynamics and the tone sounds better. My two cents.
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#13
The Vypyrs far outclass Line 6 spiders.
That being said, the Line 6 Flextones outclass the Vypyrs in most respects.
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You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#14
I'm not sure how tubes work, so if someone could link me to something that describes how tubes work/benefits over a SS, that would be great. Also, if I was to buy an amp and add pedals, what would people recommend? Ive been playing for about eight months, and I really want to start experimenting with different sounds/effects. Thanks,

Virx
The guitar makes music. The man makes the guitar.

Gear:
Epiphone Junior
Crate GX-15
Deltalab chorus pedal


Money sucks.
#15
Quote by Ludichris@Once
If I had to choose, I'd rather have a tube preamp and solid state power section, then vice versa.


The Vypyr Tubes also have one 12AX7 in the preamp.
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#16
Quote by virx67
I'm not sure how tubes work, so if someone could link me to something that describes how tubes work/benefits over a SS, that would be great.

Virx


This is a LONG discussion. I'm sure there are threads of it here on these forums. If you're starting from scratch and don't understand anything about SS vs tube...that's a lot of ground to cover. But basically, you at least (hopefully) know that almost all the models in modeling amps (if not ALL of them), are modeling tube amplifiers. Why? Well, in a solid state amp, the circuits on the PCB with transistors on them are doing the same job as what a tube does in a tube amp. Tubes will soft clip whereas solid state typically won't (although they're getting better at this). Tubes will react better to where you have your volume set on your guitar (because you're feeding the preamp stage less powerful input, so therefore it won't drive the preamp tubes as hard, so therefore it will clean up when you roll the volume down). Even at full volume on your guitar, tubes will typically react better to pick attack...if you pick harder, the amp distorts harder, if you pick softer, it sounds cleaner, etc.

It's basically about tone and feel - those two things. With tubes, you can get a 'sponginess' or a 'sag' that you will have a hard time getting with a solid state, if at all (not that you would always want this. Sometimes you definitely DON'T want this, but many tube amps you can adjust the power rating, etc., which will adjust the feel/sponginess). Also, tubes are known to produce more even order harmonics, which are perceived by the ear as being more 'pleasing', more 'musical', etc. I'm sure there's got to be a thread around here somewhere, but I'm new here so I'm not sure where it would be. And please people, don't pick apart this post 'too' hard, I'm just rattling stuff off the top of my head, and I 'should' be sleeping! If anyone cares to get more technical, or mention which thread the tube vs. solid state debate/info is, feel free.
Mesa/Boogie Roadster Head (custom finished)
Mesa 2 X 12 Rectifier cab (matches head)
Ibanez Prestige S 1625 Bubinga
MXR Carbon Copy
Boss NS 2
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#17
So if I'm getting this right, tubes produce more of a classic rock/warmer tone than SS, which just amplify the signal? If so, then couldn't there be a tube pedal to compensate for this?
The guitar makes music. The man makes the guitar.

Gear:
Epiphone Junior
Crate GX-15
Deltalab chorus pedal


Money sucks.
#18
Quote by Raijouta
The Vypyr Tubes also have one 12AX7 in the preamp.


Hm. Didn't know that. Makes no difference though, it still sounds like a Vypyr 15 only louder.
Mesa/Boogie Roadster Head (custom finished)
Mesa 2 X 12 Rectifier cab (matches head)
Ibanez Prestige S 1625 Bubinga
MXR Carbon Copy
Boss NS 2
Boss TU 2
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
#19
vox vt30/50
peavey vypyr 75
laney prism 35/65
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#21
Quote by virx67
So if I'm getting this right, tubes produce more of a classic rock/warmer tone than SS, which just amplify the signal? If so, then couldn't there be a tube pedal to compensate for this?

in esscence, yes. Most people will tell you that tubes are better.
Tubes are better sounding, but modelling amps are more versitile.
It's up to you to decide which one you want.

If you go for modelling-
-Fender Vibrochamp XD
-used Line 6 Flextone

if you go for tube-
used Classic 30
used Blues Junior
Bugera V22

-Gibson LP VM
-Silvertone Kentucky Blue
-MXR CC Delay
-Ibanez TS-9
-Egnater Rebel 20
-Avatar 1x12

My rig is simple
Haha. UG's Chuck just said chuck. haha
You're not truly playing guitar unless you know theory.
#22
Quote by virx67
So if I'm getting this right, tubes produce more of a classic rock/warmer tone than SS, which just amplify the signal? If so, then couldn't there be a tube pedal to compensate for this?


Well, you absorbed some of what I wrote. Yes, you are sort of correct in a very general way - tube amps are thought of as being 'warmer', but they are used for all sorts of music from chicken pickin' country, to classic rock, to hard rock, to metal, pop, blues, emo, rock/rap, etc. etc. etc. The only genre that solid state is a very split decision is jazz, because jazz players typically want NO breakup - they want it to stay clean, period (ala Roland Jazz Chorus JC 120 solid state amp - it's perhaps the Champion of all solid state amps, in my opinion). If you take a look at just a few of the tube amps over the years - Fender Champ (like the original Champs, like the '57 reissue that's out now), the Fender Twin Reverb, the Vox AC 30, Marshall JTM 45's, Plexi's, JCM's, Mesa Mark series, Rectifier series, etc. etc. - they all had one thing in common - they set groundbreaking new tones. I challenge anyone to assemble a list of solid state amps that are "renowned", or that were benchmarks for tone. I'm not talking about a list of "This artist used this SS amp on this album...". As you begin to research this further, I believe you will find that for most genres and most purposes, tubes are preferred because of their inherent characteristics.

Onto your second question - there are pedals that will warm things up, sure, but there's a thing called 'native tone', and it has to do with the basics of your rig - your guitar's main sound, and the overall character of your amp. Sure, you can spice up the signal and add effects, or even subtract things from the signal with an EQ, but the native tone is what you're building on, like building blocks or building a house - the native tone will remain pretty much constant, so whatever you stack on top of it is going to be derived from that. In other words, if you have a crappy amp - you can stick thousands of $$$ worth of gear in front of that amp, and even with a great guitar, it's still going to have the characteristic of that crappy amp tone. The amp is more important than the guitar, IN MY OPINION. I mean, you can plug a cheap guitar with garbage pickups in it, into an amp that has a good tone, and chances are it's still going to sound pretty good. The amp is vital, and amp choice is vital.

Don't go with a cheap amp and a bunch of pedals to try to 'fix' things, save your money and go with a decent amp. I have to replace a bunch of stuff that I sold from my recording studio to purchase my Mesa/Boogie rig, but it was WELL worth it. Now I have to replace mics, DI's, I have to buy an electric bass, etc. etc., and that's going to take awhile to do, but in the meantime I am back in the saddle again after not having a guitar rig for about three years (my last rig was also a Mesa, but a Dual Rectifier instead of the Roadster I have now), and it was WORTH IT! I hope this helps rather than causing confusion.
Mesa/Boogie Roadster Head (custom finished)
Mesa 2 X 12 Rectifier cab (matches head)
Ibanez Prestige S 1625 Bubinga
MXR Carbon Copy
Boss NS 2
Boss TU 2
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
#23
The low voltage tube in the Vox is a power tube emulation circuit. They use the tube to shape the waveform with tube characteristics. I'm sure it does something. But I'm not sure that the same thing couldn't modeled in a DSP.

Oh yeah $300 = Vypyr 30 with the lower end Sampera floorboard. That's my vote. I'd say a Super Champ XD, but you said "lots of FX".
Last edited by fly135 at Oct 25, 2009,
#25
The only modelling amps I like are Line 6 Flextones, Vettas and the Peavey Vypyr.
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