Poll: Mark IV vs. JCM 800
Poll Options
View poll results: Mark IV vs. JCM 800
Mark IVa compact combo
16 46%
Marshall JCM 800
19 54%
Voters: 35.
Page 1 of 2
#1
Blah blah blah, I know, two completely beasts. I got a trade offer finally on my Marshall, for a MKIVa combo, with the short head headshell also given to me. I'd technically be getting the Mesa for like $650 after shipping, while I'd be dumping $450 or so to get a cab and a O/D for my Marshall, putting me at a little over a thousand bucks.

Now, the only reason I am making this thread is I have never played a Mark IV, ever, only Mark Vs, which is kind of a different amp from what I've read. And I've only played my Marshall for a couple hours in the store, having a stupid salesman breathing down my back. I am basing my decision solely off of soundclips off of youtube. I'm hoping some of you have played my Marshall and that Mesa, and can tell me what you thought. I was thinking if I don't like the Mark, I could easily sell it for $1300 or more (saw three go on ebay for $1600 + shipping this week ), and buy the Marshall back for $900 or $1000. Or maybe buy a AXE FX

I really only play stuff like this, Mastodon dirtiness (and of course they play boosted JCMs), Jimi Hendrix (Marshall of course), maybe some Pink Floyd (I get worried about using the JCM for this), SRV maybe in the future, and probably some older rock n roll (the stones, springsteen, boston). No 0083r br00741z.

I don't really know what to do, and I really wish I could go play a Mark IV, but like I said, there is nowhere to go play one. Don't recommend anything else, this is pretty much wanted I've narrowed it down to for now. I feel like I have a pretty good grasp over the two amps and their sounds, but I can't get that side by side comparison.

Last edited by thrasher. at Oct 25, 2009,
#2
Mark Iv has a good resale value. I say do it, if not you have a bigger budget for an amp you like more. Just be forewarned dont make an assumption right away as the marks are notorious for being different to dial in.

I like both. The Rh2 on the mark doesn't get as much respect as it deserves. Measnwhile the marshall defines amp for many guitar plays.

just my two cents.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#3
Quote by mexican_shred
Mark Iv has a good resale value. I say do it, if not you have a bigger budget for an amp you like more. Just be forewarned dont make an assumption right away as the marks are notorious for being different to dial in.

I like both. The Rh2 on the mark doesn't get as much respect as it deserves. Measnwhile the marshall defines amp for many guitar plays.

just my two cents.

That's what I was thinking, it's just the hassle of having to wait for a sale and ship, it isn't that hard, but it get's time consuming.

I don't have difficulty dialing amps in, but I know the Marks definitley act different to minor tweaks.
#4
Thats always been my beef with merching stuff. Theres always CL , and if you are in desperate need for money GC(they'll give you 1000 for a mark IV that works). Just go with the one you feel more at home with with yourself.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#5
Quote by mexican_shred
Thats always been my beef with merching stuff. Theres always CL , and if you are in desperate need for money GC(they'll give you 1000 for a mark IV that works). Just go with the one you feel more at home with with yourself.

I'd never give it to GC, especially mine, they'd probably give me $500.

There's always ebay too, but I think that'd be a last resort. My issue with the Marshall is that it's bloody loud, but hey, the moar cranked the better.
#6
Honestly, they're both great amps. I don't really know which would be better for you, but if you went for the Mark IV you could always resell it.

/unhelpful post

-Gibson LP VM
-Silvertone Kentucky Blue
-MXR CC Delay
-Ibanez TS-9
-Egnater Rebel 20
-Avatar 1x12

My rig is simple
Haha. UG's Chuck just said chuck. haha
You're not truly playing guitar unless you know theory.
#7
Quote by thrasher.
I'd never give it to GC, especially mine, they'd probably give me $500.

There's always ebay too, but I think that'd be a last resort. My issue with the Marshall is that it's bloody loud, but hey, the moar cranked the better.

fyi:I gave the gc quote i got from three gc's

the mark iv is no pusher over for volume. its loud
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#9
Unless I'm not following you correctly, you have to add $650 for the Mark IV? Or is that including the price you paid for the 2203? Little confused on that.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#10
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I would say based on the bands you listed you need a JCM800. But that's just me
..



this is what i'm thinking too. financially, you might come out ahead if the MkIV deal goes smooth, seeing as how a MkIV in good shape is one of the most sought after amps ever... but it sounds like what you're going for falls more in jcm800 territory, and a good ol' jcm800 is nothing to thumb your nose at.
#11
Quote by MatrixClaw
Unless I'm not following you correctly, you have to add $650 for the Mark IV? Or is that including the price you paid for the 2203? Little confused on that.

No, I don't. It's a legit straight trade for my Marshall for his Mesa Mark IV, since I bought my Marshall so cheap new, I was just adding shipping to him to figure out that number.
#12
Quote by thrasher.
No, I don't. It's a legit straight trade for my Marshall for his Mesa Mark IV, since I bought my Marshall so cheap new, I was just adding shipping to him to figure out that number.

Hmm... well in that case... Value-wise, that is a great trade. The Marshall is probably a bit more suited for what you play, but you'd have to buy the cab as well and an OD. Plus it's not nearly as versatile as the Mark IV.

Personally, I'd go with that trade in a heart beat. Ask Unsigned Records for his settings on R2 and that should get you some good tones for you mid-gain stuff you're playing. I wasn't really able to get anything I liked out of that channel, but supposedly he's found something that sounds great, and if that's the case, the Mark IV would be great for you
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#13
Yup, that seems like what I should most definitley do. If I don't like the Mark, I could easily flip it, and buy something else or buy the Marshall again, or I could keep flipping up or maybe even get another trade.

I'll definitley ask Unsigned Records about those setting when I get it, hopefully I can spend some time reading some setting and get some great tones.

The guy just sent it into Mesa and is sending me pictures tomorrow, so as long as it's in good shape, I think we'll have a trade. Plus, he's in Tuscon so shipping is only like $25.
#14
Quote by thrasher.
Yup, that seems like what I should most definitley do. If I don't like the Mark, I could easily flip it, and buy something else or buy the Marshall again, or I could keep flipping up or maybe even get another trade.

I'll definitley ask Unsigned Records about those setting when I get it, hopefully I can spend some time reading some setting and get some great tones.

The guy just sent it into Mesa and is sending me pictures tomorrow, so as long as it's in good shape, I think we'll have a trade. Plus, he's in Tuscon so shipping is only like $25.

Ah cool, I think that guy may have offered that amp to me on CL then. I've had a Mark IV before though, don't really want another one
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#15
Quote by MatrixClaw
Ah cool, I think that guy may have offered that amp to me on CL then. I've had a Mark IV before though, don't really want another one

Since you've had a Roadking too, how does it compare the Mark IV compare to a Roadking/Roadster?
#16
Quote by thrasher.
Since you've had a Roadking too, how does it compare the Mark IV compare to a Roadking/Roadster?

The Road King completely destroys the Mark IV IMO

Not that the Mark IV is bad at all, the RK just had more of the sound I like. They're two different sounds though. I've really only played a Roadster briefly, so I can't really comment on it.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#17
Quote by MatrixClaw
The Road King completely destroys the Mark IV IMO

Not that the Mark IV is bad at all, the RK just had more of the sound I like. They're two different sounds though. I've really only played a Roadster briefly, so I can't really comment on it.

Hm, maybe I'll sell the Mark and get a Roadking, I've actually played the Roadster and I liked it better than a Dual Rec, and I've heard the Road King is way better. There's one of CL right now for $1400.
#18
In my opinion, the Mark IV should be the amp you'd thrown money down on without a second thought. However, the Marshall is definitely where your tone is at.

IF you get the Mark, you'd spend more time and money tweaking and getting pedals for it.

In comparison, if you were to get the Marshall, you'd be fairly well on the way to your tones.

You could get the Mark and then resell it, but remember you'll need to factor in transportation cost as well as the risk of damage when you do trades and transportation. If you ask me, if you could come out on top through the Mark and Marshall trade, you should definitely look into an Axe-FX or even the Ultra, maybe also consider a Roadking too.

Is the Axe-FX just a preamp or does it have a power section? If its only a preamp, you'll have to fork out dosh for a poweramp in addition to a cab.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#19
Quote by ragingkitty
In my opinion, the Mark IV should be the amp you'd thrown money down on without a second thought. However, the Marshall is definitely where your tone is at.

IF you get the Mark, you'd spend more time and money tweaking and getting pedals for it.

In comparison, if you were to get the Marshall, you'd be fairly well on the way to your tones.

You could get the Mark and then resell it, but remember you'll need to factor in transportation cost as well as the risk of damage when you do trades and transportation. If you ask me, if you could come out on top through the Mark and Marshall trade, you should definitely look into an Axe-FX or even the Ultra, maybe also consider a Roadking too.

Is the Axe-FX just a preamp or does it have a power section? If its only a preamp, you'll have to fork out dosh for a poweramp in addition to a cab.

Well, here's what I am coming up with overall.
If I keep the Marshall, I paid just over $600 with tax, then I'd need a cabinet, I was looking at maybe an Avatar or Recto 212 cabinet, that's about $300-$400, then for an OD, either a OD808 or TS9, so that's another $100.
So with the Marshall, I'd be at just over a grand, and I don't know what I could get in the future as far as trades go.

For the Mark, shipping to the guy is $25, which isn't bad at all. So I'd be getting the Mark for $650, leaving me $350 if I wanted to spend $1000 for pedals and junk like that.

Now, I have another option, flip the Mark. I have a guy at TGP interested in a trade for the Mark IV, I might be able to get his Mark V combo, because he needs a head and really either wants another Mark or an Uber. So with shipping, that'd put me at over $700. I could always flip the Mark on here or HC, for probably $1500 or something, and have a nice chunk to spend on gear. I could realistically get an Axe FX with that money, and buy a power amp or a cheaper tube combo to run it through. I'd be around the same price at what I was going to put out for the Marshall, but alot more hassle.
Or even with that cash, I could buy something less for now, like an Egnater or 6505+ or MTS, maybe even a Roadking! and pocket a nice chunk of cash and buy pedals as I need them.

So theres, that's what I have on the table right now. I'm not sure.
Last edited by thrasher. at Oct 25, 2009,
#20
Quote by thrasher.
Well, here's what I am coming up with overall.
If I keep the Marshall, I paid just over $600 with tax, then I'd need a cabinet, I was looking at maybe an Avatar or Recto 212 cabinet, that's about $300-$400, then for an OD, either a OD808 or TS9, so that's another $100.
So with the Marshall, I'd be at just over a grand, and I don't know what I could get in the future as far as trades go.

For the Mark, shipping to the guy is $25, which isn't bad at all. So I'd be getting the Mark for $650, leaving me $350 if I wanted to spend $1000 for pedals and junk like that.

Now, I have another option, flip the Mark. I have a guy at TGP interested in a trade for the Mark IV, I might be able to get his Mark V combo, because he needs a head and really either wants another Mark or an Uber. So with shipping, that'd put me at over $700. I could always flip the Mark on here or HC, for probably $1500 or something, and have a nice chunk to spend on gear. I could realistically get an Axe FX with that money, and buy a power amp or a cheaper tube combo to run it through. I'd be around the same price at what I was going to put out for the Marshall, but alot more hassle.
Or even with that cash, I could buy something less for now, like an Egnater or 6505+ or MTS, maybe even a Roadster! and pocket a nice chunk of cash and buy pedals as I need them.

So theres, that's what I have on the table right now. I'm not sure.


Wah????

Could you put that in point form? I just can't follow your thread of logic.

Also, when making trades, do not trade 1 thing in hopes of using it in a later trade. Sh!t happens, you never know when someone could pull out of a trade for various reasons.

Get something you'd use, not something to trade for something else.

Also, something for you to consider, based on my Mark V, I find that it sounds better with high gain pickups. I tried a low output pickup on my Mark V over the weekend... it just sounded weak.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
Last edited by ragingkitty at Oct 25, 2009,
#21
Quote by ragingkitty
Wah????

Could you put that in point form? I just can't follow your thread of logic.

Also, when making trades, do not trade 1 thing in hopes of using it in a later trade. Sh!t happens, you never know when someone could pull out of a trade for various reasons.

Get something you'd use, not something to trade for something else.

Okay, here are the options:
-Keep the Marshall, buy cab and O/D, be content and keep it for a long time.
-Trade the Marshall, get the Mark IV, keep the Mark, have cash left over compared to Marshall.
-Get the Mark IV, sell it/trade it for something else, like a Axe FX or something.
-Trade, Sell the Mark IV, and get something less expensive, pocket cash, have cash for pedals etc.

Yeah, I definitley know that might happen, just that there is a chance. It's the last thing that I think will happen (getting the V).
#22
Quote by thrasher.
Okay, here are the options:
-Keep the Marshall, buy cab and O/D, be content and keep it for a long time.
-Trade the Marshall, get the Mark IV, keep the Mark, have cash left over compared to Marshall.
-Get the Mark IV, sell it/trade it for something else, like a Axe FX or something.
-Trade, Sell the Mark IV, and get something less expensive, pocket cash, have cash for pedals etc.

Yeah, I definitley know that might happen, just that there is a chance. It's the last thing that I think will happen (getting the V).


Here's the list of how I'd view your options:
-Get the Mark IV, sell it/trade it for something else, like a Axe FX or something.
-Trade the Marshall, get the Mark IV, keep the Mark, have cash left over compared to Marshall.
-Trade, Sell the Mark IV, and get something less expensive, pocket cash, have cash for pedals etc.
-Keep the Marshall, buy cab and O/D, be content and keep it for a long time.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#23
Well, I guess the best option regardless of what I want to keep, getting the Mark IV is the way to go.
#24
Have you played your 800 yet? The Mesa is a good deal but these are totally different amps. It seems you are more interested in flipping gear then settling in. Don't take that the wrong way. To potentially trade up and get to own a Mark IV in the process is not a bad thing. But, as ragingkitty said, sh*t can happen too. Also, would you rather own a combo?
#25
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Have you played your 800 yet? The Mesa is a good deal but these are totally different amps. It seems you are more interested in flipping gear then settling in. Don't take that the wrong way. To potentially trade up and get to own a Mark IV in the process is not a bad thing. But, as ragingkitty said, sh*t can happen too. Also, would you rather own a combo?

I played it, but it was at GC for not more than an hour, with the salesman breathing down my neck trying to sell me a bunch more stuff than that. The dude didn't understand what I was telling him about the amp half of the time.

Well, the reason I think I should flip gear is in the end, I'll come out on top and have more options, and won't have to cringe every time I take money out of the bank.

I don't know about the combo vs. stack, I'd much rather have a combo for portability and it taking up less space, but with that I'm sacrificing some tone.
#26
Quote by thrasher.
I played it, but it was at GC for not more than an hour, with the salesman breathing down my neck trying to sell me a bunch more stuff than that. The dude didn't understand what I was telling him about the amp half of the time.

Well, the reason I think I should flip gear is in the end, I'll come out on top and have more options, and won't have to cringe every time I take money out of the bank.

I don't know about the combo vs. stack, I'd much rather have a combo for portability and it taking up less space, but with that I'm sacrificing some tone.


you do realise that no matter how many people claim it... a stack is more easily portable than a combo is, right?
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#27
Quote by ragingkitty
you do realise that no matter how many people claim it... a stack is more easily portable than a combo is, right?

I don't know about that really.

a 212 is 50-60lbs, a head is at least 50lbs. And a 412 is 100lbs. A combo is usually 75lbs, and in one package. I can't honestly fit a 412 in my car, and maybe a 212 in the trunk and the head in the backseat with the guitar if I am not driving anyone.

I don't think it's easier at all to carry around, and it just takes up more space imo.
#28
yeah, that won't be exactly a light combo.

Still, in the end it does seem to be good trade up for you. You could always buy an 800 head or combo later if you decide you want something different. Most of the stuff you mentioned in the OP will be a lot easier to pull off with a Marshall voiced amp imo. Good luck either way man.

#29
Yeah, like I said, I think I'm getting the Mark pending pictures. I'm giving another day on trade offers, and if I don't get anything better, Mark it is (or should be).
#31
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Did he mention why he wants an 800 so badly?


Hope all goes well for you man, I'll look forward to your updates.

The guy with the Mark? No. But in his signature he has his myspace and he's in a pretty big band and they had gear pictures and had a bunch of Mesas and Bogners. That might be why.

But, I just got another offer. Blackface rectifier + cash on his end, but I doubt I want that. Just realized too I got an offer for a Soldano.
Last edited by thrasher. at Oct 26, 2009,
#32
Quote by thrasher.
I don't know about that really.

a 212 is 50-60lbs, a head is at least 50lbs. And a 412 is 100lbs. A combo is usually 75lbs, and in one package. I can't honestly fit a 412 in my car, and maybe a 212 in the trunk and the head in the backseat with the guitar if I am not driving anyone.

I don't think it's easier at all to carry around, and it just takes up more space imo.


many cabs either come with or support a platform for casters, little wheel-like things that are actually...


...wheels. they roll places with flat surfaces

in other news, everytime i see a thread from you, it's always, ALWAYS about trading gear. not to be insulting, infact they're usually pretty interresting threads, but each time i see one of 'em i believe a little more that you really don't know what you want. first it was a randall modular amp (i forget which one), then an uberschall, then the jcm800, now it's a MkIV. when do you have time to actually dial these suckers in and actually make music?
#33
Quote by thrasher.
The guy with the Mark? No. But in his signature he has his myspace and he's in a pretty big band and they had gear pictures and had a bunch of Mesas and Bogners. That might be why.

But, I just got another offer. Blackface rectifier + cash on his end, but I doubt I want that. Just realized too I got an offer for a Soldano.


Do it!

Do the Soldano!
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#34
Quote by ragingkitty
Also, when making trades, do not trade 1 thing in hopes of using it in a later trade.

Disagree.

Do this all the time and look where that's brought me

You just need to be active in finding a good trade. With an amp like a Mark IV, there's tons of people out there who would kill for one, you could get some sick deals with it.


Value-wise, the Mark IV is clearly worth more, getting it for a total price of $650 is RIDICULOUS, you could get a HUGE return on it if you sold it. Selling that Marshall won't be nearly as easy and finding trades (as I'm sure you've found), aren't either.

Trade man, seriously. There's no sense in wasting $500 on a cab and an OD, when you could get the Mark IV, which works without all that, and if you decide you don't like it, you can sell it, but an 800 again and a cab, and still have money left over.

Seems like a very clear choice to me


*edit* The guy with the Blackface is a ****ing idiot if he's going to add cash (hell even the guy with the Mark IV is an idiot), but I would cry if you got that amp, I want one lol
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#35
Quote by GrisKy
many cabs either come with or support a platform for casters, little wheel-like things that are actually...


...wheels. they roll places with flat surfaces

in other news, everytime i see a thread from you, it's always, ALWAYS about trading gear. not to be insulting, infact they're usually pretty interresting threads, but each time i see one of 'em i believe a little more that you really don't know what you want. first it was a randall modular amp (i forget which one), then an uberschall, then the jcm800, now it's a MkIV. when do you have time to actually dial these suckers in and actually make music?

I've never dialed in those suckers because I never got them, I never got the Randall because the guy decided to keep it, the Uber, the guy turned out to be a joke.

I actually have the JCM in my hands now, and I never thought ever of buying it before. I've only really been serious about getting an amp for the past month or two. I played an MG, Vox VT for over a year and a half not caring what they really were.
So in retrospect, I've never really seriously considered trading as I am now, because I have the amp in my hands ready to go if I need to. Plus, I don't have a cab.
I've been on UG for what, 3 months, I have like 4 posts per day. Trust me, I play for hours a day usually. If I never even was worried about buying an amp, I doubt I would of even found this place.


True, I don't know what I really want, because honestly, it's hard for me to put out $1500 + on an amp. I don't want to be hit with a big loss and a wrong decision. I'd get all these amps and try them, but I am not willing to throw money around and take losses and spend time trying to get rid of the stuff I don't want. I'd rather hassle right now for a month or two and figure this out, without buying 5 different amps.

ragingkitty: the soldano i'd still have to get a cab, and it's the cheapest one there is, I think.
Last edited by thrasher. at Oct 26, 2009,
#36
is the mark IV trade still an option? there's a lot of words here.
Gibson SG Standard + 18volt EMG-81 & 85
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV + Recto 2x12
Keeley Modded BD-2
Vox V847a
Quote by one vision
Bureaucrats gonna crat.

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2008
#37
Quote by UnsignedRecords
is the mark IV trade still an option? there's a lot of words here.

Yes.
#38
Quote by thrasher.
the soldano i'd still have to get a cab, and it's the cheapest one there is, I think.


DO IT!

DO THE SOLDANO!

MC: I disagree with your disagreement, you're in a position where you are familiar with the market and the market value of the various amps. Our friend .thrasher here isn't in the same position.

I'd recommend that thrasher get something he likes before he starts the whole MC amp trading bit.

I agree that trading amps over a long term can lead to profitz, but not at the current stage for the TS, where if he trades his one amp for something else, he could end up amp-less for a period of time.

Quote by MatrixClaw
The guy with the Blackface is a ****ing idiot if he's going to add cash (hell even the guy with the Mark IV is an idiot), but I would cry if you got that amp, I want one lol

This part I strongly agree as well. I'd go for the Blackface above the MkIV if you really were out for a trade instead of settling for an amp.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
Last edited by ragingkitty at Oct 26, 2009,
#39
oh... well what're you waiting for!
Gibson SG Standard + 18volt EMG-81 & 85
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV + Recto 2x12
Keeley Modded BD-2
Vox V847a
Quote by one vision
Bureaucrats gonna crat.

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2008
#40
Quote by ragingkitty
This part I strongly agree as well. I'd go for the Blackface above the MkIV if you really were out for a trade instead of settling for an amp.

Really depends on how much cash he's giving.

I'd LOVE to have a blackface, but trades on them are hard to come by. However, they are not worth as much as the Mark IV and not nearly as versatile, for metal, they are amazing sounding amps, but I'm not sure they'd really fit the bill for trasher

The Mark IV is the best trade offer he's gotten and is the one IMO he should definitely take. If not because of the fact that it's worth quite a bit more, then because of the fact that he won't have to shell out $500 of his own money to get the current amp usable
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
Page 1 of 2