#1
We've all been there - the drummer who just can't grasp the concept of playing "less loud." What have you all done to get the idea across to him? Did it work? And what would you have done differently?

#2
Put socks on his drums.
especially cymbals.
Quote by deadringer13
xjosheex, you have made a simple answer to it all haha


Quote by Pr0gNut
I hope he gets a blood disease and dies alone and screaming.


I mean that in the nicest way possible of course.
#3
Turn your amp up. That way, you can match his loudness with your loudness.

Mad Professor Snow White Auto Wah
TC Electronic PolyTune 2 Noir
Joyo Vintage Overdrive
ZVex Box of Rock
Chase Bliss Audio Warped Vinyl
TC Electronic Flashback
Neunaber Seraphim + EXP
Hotone Wally
#4
We stopped playing a measure into wherever we were, if he was too loud.
Then told him to count 4 and start from there (usually a verse).
If he was still too loud, we stopped again. Repeat as necessary.
Eventually most of them get it, and learn what "the pocket" is.
Sadly, a few never do.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#5
As a guitarist, yes I get annoyed when the drummer plays "too loud," and usually just shout at him to play more quietly.

However, as a drummer, I get really annoyed when other members tell me to play "less loud" and just think that they should leave me to it.
#6
Deal with it. That is part of having a real drum set in your band. Get a bigger practice space or wear earplugs.
#7
That's the thing about drum sets: they're loud. That's why you have amps, so you can be as loud as necessary.
ESP Viper 1000 Deluxe

Peavey Vypyr 120 Head
ValveKing 4x12 Cab

ISP Decimator
Boss AC-2
Ibanez TS-7
#8
a while ago i've seen a discussion like this on the internet. It was really about recording drums, but it's pretty much the same thing when doing it live i guess... (i'll post link if i find it)

however, there was this guy who claimed to me extra expirienced in these things. he said that there should be no dynaical chanes regarding drums during a song. "it's up to other instruments to add dynamics feel" he said...

And the more i thought about that, the more i agreed with this person, because the rhythm is the structure of a song, something that should be constant.

I shall give you an example of most common misunderstanding in dynamics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeWjzBHUdsI 0:15
you see, when you first hear that fill it seams to be crescendo (<
If you listen closely to the drums, their dynamics dont really change... guitars palm mute and eventually let ring which gives you the feel of <..

so, it's the guitars, not drums

But hey man, that was just my opinion, right?

Best regards, Serjem
Quote by Moggan13
Serjem is like a Bishops testicals: Swollen
ಠ_ಠ
IIIIfb * KARKOLI * ytIIII(mostly rock... a little funky, a little hard just the way you want it )
#9
Quote by Serjem
a while ago i've seen a discussion like this on the internet. It was really about recording drums, but it's pretty much the same thing when doing it live i guess... (i'll post link if i find it)

however, there was this guy who claimed to me extra expirienced in these things. he said that there should be no dynaical chanes regarding drums during a song. "it's up to other instruments to add dynamics feel" he said...

And the more i thought about that, the more i agreed with this person, because the rhythm is the structure of a song, something that should be constant.

I shall give you an example of most common misunderstanding in dynamics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeWjzBHUdsI 0:15
you see, when you first hear that fill it seams to be crescendo (<
If you listen closely to the drums, their dynamics dont really change... guitars palm mute and eventually let ring which gives you the feel of <..

so, it's the guitars, not drums

But hey man, that was just my opinion, right?

Best regards, Serjem

What, so you're saying that the drums should never change in volume and always just play at their full capacity?

Clearly that's a load of shit. Seriously, just think about that for one second...it's a ridiculous idea.

EDIT: And in Self Esteem the drums clearly do crescendo in that fill.
My name is Danny. Call me that.
Last edited by asator at Oct 28, 2009,
#10
NO never turn up your own amp, the drummer will still play horribly.
instead turn all amps down a bit, if the drummer wants to hear you he's got no choice

usually though just explaining that when the basic volume is softer you get more dynamical range is convincing enough

personally i would kick him out, you need a good drummer, and people hitting too hard are not in that category
#11
Quote by Veil Of Osiris
That's the thing about drum sets: they're loud. That's why you have amps, so you can be as loud as necessary.


stupid post is stupid.

sure, drums are loud. but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be less loud at times. that is the entire point of dynamics.
my name is matt. you can call me that if you like.
#12
Quote by Serjem
a while ago i've seen a discussion like this on the internet. It was really about recording drums, but it's pretty much the same thing when doing it live i guess... (i'll post link if i find it)

however, there was this guy who claimed to me extra expirienced in these things. he said that there should be no dynaical chanes regarding drums during a song. "it's up to other instruments to add dynamics feel" he said...

And the more i thought about that, the more i agreed with this person, because the rhythm is the structure of a song, something that should be constant.
erm, how about ... no.

One of the lovely things about percussion sounds is that they DO come across well, even when played softly. You don't lose the rhythm by playing with dynamics on drums.

Quote by Serjem
I shall give you an example of most common misunderstanding in dynamics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeWjzBHUdsI 0:15
you see, when you first hear that fill it seams to be crescendo (<
If you listen closely to the drums, their dynamics dont really change... guitars palm mute and eventually let ring which gives you the feel of <..

so, it's the guitars, not drums

But hey man, that was just my opinion, right?

Best regards, Serjem
That's probably the worst example ever. The drums were played with dynamics, but the engineer has compressed the hell out of the final mix. As a result, the final sound picture sounds nearly as trite as the content of the song.

One anecdote where there is an open passage that has drums more present, does not prove anything.

A good drummer can play with control. He doesn't need to sledgehammer every damned note. If he spends most of his time "in the pocket", it adds a level of excitement to the performance when he takes it up a few notches. If he constantly plays LOUD he has nowhere to go from there. Sorry man, but there is no "11" on a drumkit. If you're constantly at 10, you can't go anywhere but down from there.

Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#13
Quote by Freunleven
We've all been there - the drummer who just can't grasp the concept of playing "less loud." What have you all done to get the idea across to him? Did it work? And what would you have done differently?


Multirods are good for keeping practice volume down, without the drummer having to hold back it changes the feel of a song.


A 'drummer' with no sense of dynamics is barely a drummer.
#14
of course drummers are ment to use dynamics! wtf, when you read a piece of drum music it's not all quiet or loud, it varies. stick height = loudness. theres no need for taking huge pelting swings at the drum heads but drummers are ment to play loud in a lot of scenarios. if you say drummers aren't ment to be playing dynamics that is complete and utter bullshit.
#15
i think perhaps you're confusing a live preformance with a recorded one. live, of course your drummer is going to have dynamics in his toolbox just as you'd imagine.

in the studio it is often differet, though only slightly so, and to treat a different problem (that is, other than having to eliminate dynamics). the purpose of compressing the drum bus in a studio is simply to even out the kit (when micing alone doesn't do the trick). you don't want your floor tom to be booming and your rack toms barely audiable. in this sense, sometimes you have to re-create dynamics through automation. while somewhat synthetic, the end result is usually prefferable. in the end, you still have varying degrees of volume within the kit which translates to a listener as dynamics.
#16
as a drummer myself, i can say that, your drummer shouldn't always play full volume, but it is very hard to play super quiet and sound in the pocket at the same time. for example if you have a little 5 watt SS , dont expect to be heard to well, and have the drummer play well. also, drum mutes?

but yes drummers have dynamics too
Quote by Eliyahu
Mr.Cuddles killed The Metal!!!! FUCK YES!

Quote by TheReverend724
Mr Cuddles pretty much nailed it...

Quote by thanksgiving

"Oh Mr.Cuddles, you make my pants go boom boom. I are horny. Do not disappoint I"


Viscara (my band)
#17
We're using a 100w guitar amp and a 300w bass amp, and we have to crank it to be heard over the drums. Drummer's a great guy, excellent sense of rhythm and can actually play melodically, but he's just really freaking loud.

I think I'll invest in a set of mutes - the gift that keeps on giving.
#18
wow! he must have a serious kit and a pair of friggin' sledge hammers!

are you worried about practice being too loud or gigs? because you can always mic your cabs at gigs, but there's no need for you or your bandmates to kill your eardrums at practice.
#19
Quote by Freunleven
excellent sense of rhythm and can actually play melodically, but he's just really freaking loud.
the best drummers ARE really freaking loud.


... on rare occasions. They know how to step forward at appropriate times and make themselves stand out. The rest of the time, they know how to fit in, blend, lay down a solid, secure base for the rest of the band to build on.

Quote by Freunleven
I think I'll invest in a set of mutes - the gift that keeps on giving.
Maybe a trip to a drum clinic, where they teach both the importance of dynamics and the techniques for playing softly, with control and accuracy would be money better spent. idk.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#20
The volume issue is at practice. I think the issue comes from him starting as a guitar player, where "louder is better" is a common line of thought. (Says the guitar player!)

I'm going to look for a drum clinic in the area soon - we've got a couple of smaller gigs planned for early next year, where micing the amps might not pan out (just 150-300 people). Maybe I can even get with the local high school band teacher and see if he wants to make some cash on the side by giving a few private lessons if all else fails.

Thanks for all the advice, ya'll. I'm going to put it into practice.
#21
^^ why wouldn't you mic the amps for 300 people?
My name is Danny. Call me that.
#22
my drummer's really pretty good with dynamics, it's the other guitarist that's horrible, he's like tone deaf, except its to how loud it is. apparently he can't hear himself unless he has his amp crank to 7 while mines at 5... and I'm the lead guitarist, so my solos end up getting drowned out half the time during practice. I always turn him down before but somehow he slowly gets louder and louder.

the only thing with the drummer is when the other guitarist gets louder, he gets louder too, but when I finally mention something and get us lined out again on volume, sometimes the drummer forgets to drop back down lol.
#23
I used to have problems with my old drummer when it came to dynamics. He would only play loud. We ended up replacing him, though for different reasons, and we realized how much better the music sounded when we had a drummer who knew dynamics behind the set.

Those of you who said that drummers cannot do dynamics, have you ever been in, or heard, a power trio? Do you think Neil Peart plays nothing but loud? How about Ginger Baker? In a power trio, every instrument has to do their part well, including the drums. That includes dynamics, since there's not as many instruments to do it for them.
My guitar modification blog.
Quote by MuffinMan
Jesus was all like "To those about to rock, I salute you." then he grabbed his mighty axe and rocked the Romans out really hard. Of course they were strict classical music so....
#24
Quote by Freunleven
We're using a 100w guitar amp and a 300w bass amp, and we have to crank it to be heard over the drums. Drummer's a great guy, excellent sense of rhythm and can actually play melodically, but he's just really freaking loud.

I think I'll invest in a set of mutes - the gift that keeps on giving.


It doesn't always matter on how much power your amplifier outputs, you could very well be overlooking the way you're dialing in the tone on your amp. Usually the big culprit of this is scooped mids. It might sound okay on its own, but when put into a mix it is very hard to cut through the rest of the band.
#25
One good way to justify turning down--and I don't think anyone has mentioned this--is how much better a band works together when everyone plays quietly. Good musicians listen to one another as they play, the more quietly you play, the more you can listen to each other, and the better musicians you'll be.

Explain it to him that way and he'll have to figure out how to settle it down or feel like he's a hack.
#26
Using clock-hand positions, I've got my guitar amp's EQ set as follows: Bass at ten o'clock, mids at three o'clock and treble at two o'clock. The bass amp is set with all the channels between eleven o'clock and one o'clock. I personally hate the scooped sound, no matter how popular it might be in certain circles.

Quote by dullsilver_mike
One good way to justify turning down--and I don't think anyone has mentioned this--is how much better a band works together when everyone plays quietly.


Great idea! Next time we get together, I'm taking a 30w guitar amp and a 60w bass amp. Even if we turn it up, we till won't be nearly as loud as with the "big" amps.

Last edited by Freunleven at Nov 1, 2009,
#27
i'm a drummer, if you try play drums quietly it feels retarded, just turn everything up to match the drums
#28
Quote by JayPresto
i'm a drummer, if you try play drums quietly it feels retarded, just turn everything up to match the drums
Yeah, you probably do feel retarded cuz you're trying to do something you don't have the skills to accomplish. Playing at low levels with control and accuracy does take more skill. But this is one of things that separates a real drummer from the wannabes.

Turning up to match is just plain stupid.
Decide on the sound picture you want to present.
Make it a comfortable level so all the musicians can hear each other instead of fighting to be heard at 120dB.
Leave room to crescendo into big, powerful, in-your-face territory... on occasion.
Make the difference between taps and accents obvious.

Playing at one volume level and one level alone is dead-boring and the mark of a weak drummer.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#29
Quote by Freunleven
The volume issue is at practice. I think the issue comes from him starting as a guitar player, where "louder is better" is a common line of thought. (Says the guitar player!)

I'm going to look for a drum clinic in the area soon - we've got a couple of smaller gigs planned for early next year, where micing the amps might not pan out (just 150-300 people). Maybe I can even get with the local high school band teacher and see if he wants to make some cash on the side by giving a few private lessons if all else fails.

Thanks for all the advice, ya'll. I'm going to put it into practice.


I dont care if im playing to 20 people im micing my amps, the last thing im gonna do is bust my ass getting ready for a show and all the crowd hears is noise, in my opinion if its not miced its not worth doing but whatever floats your boat man.

On topic a drummer without dynamics is just a man with two stcks in his hand, absolutely worthless
#30
Get one of those guitar tool kits that look like a swiss army knife. Y'know, something heavy...
Drummer plays too loud?
Can't grasp 4/4?
Throw it at his head and wait for him to come round.

|_|0|_|
|_|_|0|
|0|0|0|
▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄
#31
Quote by osXtiger
Get one of those guitar tool kits that look like a swiss army knife. Y'know, something heavy...
Drummer plays too loud?
Can't grasp 4/4?
Throw it at his head and wait for him to come round.

//thread