Poll: Does your school have a chaplain?
Poll Options
View poll results: Does your school have a chaplain?
Yes
5 17%
No
25 83%
Voters: 30.
#1
Today I found out that my school has a chaplain (and I found out what a chaplain is).

I'm not really sure how this works though, aren't public schools supposed to be separate from religion?

EDIT: A student is the chaplain, but the school fully backs it and holds the election.

EDIT2: I bring this up because recently at a graduation the chaplain said something along the lines of (coming close to the actual quote) "You will not be successful without god" then led a prayer for everyone.
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god



www.youtube.com/user/andrew12398
Last edited by andrew12398 at Oct 27, 2009,
#2
Not anymore, I'm afraid.
Even public schools have religion inserted into their system somehow. Like for my Greek class, my teacher tried to get everyone to pray every day.
Yep.
#3
Separation of church and state. Public schools are state run therefore the church, in any form, shouldn't be apart of it.

kick him in the shins and run.
#4
Show him a rock. Tell him there is one serious difference between his god and your rock. Your rock actually exists.
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I stick stuff in my pee hole.

Gear:

Schecter C-1 Classic
Ibanez S670PB
Stratocaster MIM Standard
Marshall MG30 (its purple )
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
#5
Is he hired by the school or does he just come and hang out?
Warmoth Strat w/ Lace Holy Grails
'07 Roadhouse Strat
Washburn WD-21 all Koa Acoustic
Marshall JCM-2000 TSL-122
Bugera V-5
#6
Quote by SSDaniel105
Separation of church and state. Public schools are state run therefore the church, in any form, shouldn't be apart of it.

kick him in the shins and run.


No no no no no! Seperation of Church And State (State literally meaning country) Was put in by the founding fathers so that there couldn't be a mandated national religion, like England at the time. it had nothing to do with Our version of the word "state" and religion in the classroom.
Quote by Teh Traineez0rz
yeah was weird cause she liked us both but she loved him and for some reason she let me know beforehand.

i just wanted her poon and she wanted me to have her poon.

so i had myself some poon.
#7
Well if it isn't mandatory there's nothing you can say about it. It's like RoTC in schools. They're not making anyone do it (PE is an alternative) so you can't really complain

My school didn't have a chaplain.

Teaching religion in school is supposedly right out but one teacher of mine taught The Secret and she hasn't been fired in her X years of teaching. They can't really fire people because Tenure/teacher shortage.

It's really bo-shiz.
My Blog
New bands you wish you knew about!

Check This Band:As Blood Runs Black
Guitarist of the month: Quorthon


Got a good band that you want to share with the world? PM me and I'll write them a review.
#9
It's illegal for your school to have a chaplain.

I voted no, and then realized that I go to a Catholic school (although I am an atheist). I don't think we actually have a chaplain or anything like that, the school is run by brothers, but that's about it.
Quote by ThinLizzyFan
I love you



Who's in a bunker?
Who's in a bunker?
Women and children first
And the children first
And the children
#10
Quote by Shirate
No no no no no! Seperation of Church And State (State literally meaning country) Was put in by the founding fathers so that there couldn't be a mandated national religion, like England at the time. it had nothing to do with Our version of the word "state" and religion in the classroom.


wouldn't having a chaplain be considered having a "state" religion? The State, or government, would be enforcing that religion, the religion of the chaplain, by employing him, if he is employed there. So therefore the government would be forming a national religion if they were in fact employing chaplains of certain religions because that could be seen as trying to raise the children in the school of that religion thus creating a national religion.


EDIT: Nevermind... having a student chaplain is different. you could complain that it makes you uncomfortable having that in your school making you feel like there are religious pressures on you. Or suck it up and ignore it.
Last edited by SSDaniel105 at Oct 27, 2009,
#11
Quote by R0CKER1220
TS you're in the Bible Belt, that's why. I don't think my high school had a chaplain. It would be quite funny if it did though since most kids there were Jewish .

You have a point.

Quote by namesroverrated
It's illegal for your school to have a chaplain.

I voted no, and then realized that I go to a Catholic school (although I am an atheist). I don't think we actually have a chaplain or anything like that, the school is run by brothers, but that's about it.

That's the problem, I can't prove that it's actually illegal. I'm not really hell-bent on getting rid of the chaplain but I know others have tried.

Quote by SSDaniel105
wouldn't having a chaplain be considered having a "state" religion? The State, or government, would be enforcing that religion, the religion of the chaplain, by employing him, if he is employed there. So therefore the government would be forming a national religion if they were in fact employing chaplains of certain religions because that could be seen as trying to raise the children in the school of that religion thus creating a national religion.

Read my edit at the end of the first post.
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god



www.youtube.com/user/andrew12398
Last edited by andrew12398 at Oct 27, 2009,
#12
Quote by Wulphy
Show him a rock. Tell him there is one serious difference between his god and your rock. Your rock actually exists.


You're theory is no better than christianity
Yours Sincerely,


Dr. Speakers
#15
Quote by speakers
You're theory is no better than christianity


That's why it's called a joke.
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I stick stuff in my pee hole.

Gear:

Schecter C-1 Classic
Ibanez S670PB
Stratocaster MIM Standard
Marshall MG30 (its purple )
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
#16
We had a chaplain who was a Catholic priest. I'm an atheist but to be honest it never bothered me. He was a really really nice guy, you'd never know he was a priest if it weren't for the collar. He provided a really valuable counselling service for the kids in the school and spearheaded a number of student campaigns to help new first year students settle in.
He came back early from his vacation in Cuba in order to be around when we got our Leaving Certificate results and was a rock for lots of people who hadn't got the results they needed to go on to University. He was the only teacher who I remember being present at every single state exam we sat, no matter how few students were doing it.
He really changed the way I look at priests for the better, especially given that Catholic Clergy can often get a bad rap.
Although he was a priest he never brought up the whole Catholicism thing and was usually a pretty secular guy in his professional life.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#18
you know, the 'separation of church and state' clause was intended for the government to not overrun or do any bad things to the church. It was to protect it from government, not the government or the citizens thereof from the church.

Ridiculous how people use this clause against the church when most of the founding fathers weren't even Christians, yet they protected the Church in the Constitution.

But then again, I guess the other way is implied because basically everything in the Constitution was written ambiguously on purpose.
Jackson RR5 ivory w/ EMG 81/85
Jackson DX6 w/ SD Distortion & Dimarzio Super Distortion
Fender Starcaster Sunburst
Mesa/Boogie DC-3
Johnson JT50 Mirage
Ibanez TS-9
Morley Bad Horsie 2
Boss CE-5

ISP Decimator
Boss DD-6
Korg Pitchblack
#19
Quote by blackthought
Your English sucks. Therefore, no one should ever listen to anything you ever have to say regarding anything.


sorry
Yours Sincerely,


Dr. Speakers
#21
Quote by apak
you know, the 'separation of church and state' clause was intended for the government to not overrun or do any bad things to the church. It was to protect it from government, not the government or the citizens thereof from the church.

Ridiculous how people use this clause against the church when most of the founding fathers weren't even Christians, yet they protected the Church in the Constitution.

But then again, I guess the other way is implied because basically everything in the Constitution was written ambiguously on purpose.

Textbooks and internet say otherwise
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god



www.youtube.com/user/andrew12398
Last edited by andrew12398 at Oct 27, 2009,
#24
Quote by blackthought
It's okay man.

It's all going to be okay now. Everything.


I really hope so.

ON TOPIC: In my younger years of highschool we had a chaplaIn, but then towards the end it was the same person but they called him a 'councillor' but it was the same person doing the same thing...sneaky.
Yours Sincerely,


Dr. Speakers
Last edited by speakers at Oct 27, 2009,
#25
If your education has done you any good, you will know to ignore this chaplain.
#26
Quote by andrew12398
Textbooks and internet say otherwise


no no no, church is always in the right. Government is always the evil one doing the wrong taking over and all that.
#27
Quote by andrew12398
Textsbooks and internet say otherwise

Wow. You trust textbooks and the internet to give you good info? Both are really really biased. You gotta just decide for yourself and not fall for the stupid propaganda of American textbook writers and organizations who spread messages through the internet.

Separation of church and state is for the church. Back then, forcing anything was bad. this was right after the revolution. They had to allow the churches to run freely instead of giving the government the right to cut out a religion just because it wanted to. It goes against the freedom of religion. In modern day, it is viewed otherwise because people and society change. The Constitution is very ambiguous because the founding fathers knew society would change.
Jackson RR5 ivory w/ EMG 81/85
Jackson DX6 w/ SD Distortion & Dimarzio Super Distortion
Fender Starcaster Sunburst
Mesa/Boogie DC-3
Johnson JT50 Mirage
Ibanez TS-9
Morley Bad Horsie 2
Boss CE-5

ISP Decimator
Boss DD-6
Korg Pitchblack
#28
"OMG I'M SO SAD AND MAD BECAUSE SOMEONE LIKES GOD AND I DON'T"


I ****ing hate ant-religious punks or atheists who try to convert everyone.

I'm not even religious but seriously it's so annoying. It's not like they can make you pray anyways. Give a little thought to those who do want to pray.
#29
Quote by Tedward
"OMG I'M SO SAD AND MAD BECAUSE SOMEONE LIKES GOD AND I DON'T"


I ****ing hate ant-religious punks or atheists who try to convert everyone.

I'm not even religious but seriously it's so annoying. It's not like they can make you pray anyways. Give a little thought to those who do want to pray.

All I did was ask a question...?

Quote by apak
Wow. You trust textbooks and the internet to give you good info? Both are really really biased. You gotta just decide for yourself and not fall for the stupid propaganda of American textbook writers and organizations who spread messages through the internet.

Separation of church and state is for the church. Back then, forcing anything was bad. this was right after the revolution. They had to allow the churches to run freely instead of giving the government the right to cut out a religion just because it wanted to. It goes against the freedom of religion. In modern day, it is viewed otherwise because people and society change. The Constitution is very ambiguous because the founding fathers knew society would change.

Yeah d00d **** da system!!!!!!!111

Considering textbooks is what schools normally use to teach (at one point or another), yeah I'm going to trust them over some random UGer.
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god



www.youtube.com/user/andrew12398
Last edited by andrew12398 at Oct 28, 2009,
#30
Quote by Tedward
"OMG I'M SO SAD AND MAD BECAUSE SOMEONE LIKES GOD AND I DON'T"


I ****ing hate ant-religious punks or atheists who try to convert everyone.

I'm not even religious but seriously it's so annoying. It's not like they can make you pray anyways. Give a little thought to those who do want to pray.

So, conversely, you surely wouldn't mind if someone was going around the school telling people that God isn't real because "They can't make you believe"
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#31
Quote by apak
Wow. You trust textbooks and the internet to give you good info? Both are really really biased. You gotta just decide for yourself and not fall for the stupid propaganda of American textbook writers and organizations who spread messages through the internet.

Separation of church and state is for the church. Back then, forcing anything was bad. this was right after the revolution. They had to allow the churches to run freely instead of giving the government the right to cut out a religion just because it wanted to. It goes against the freedom of religion. In modern day, it is viewed otherwise because people and society change. The Constitution is very ambiguous because the founding fathers knew society would change.

The Founders looked towards Europe, where religion and government were intertwined, and saw the corruptions and abuses that arose from such a system. That's why we both have the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause in the First Amendment; it keeps government from interfering in religion, but it also keeps the government from becoming a theocracy.
Hi, I'm Peter
#32
Quote by andrew12398
Yeah d00d **** da system!!!!!!!111

Considering textbooks is what schools normally use to teach (at one point or another), yeah I'm going to trust them over some random UGer.

Yeah. That's smart of you actually.

I'm just saying textbooks are full of correct info but they vilify the country's enemies.
Look at the revolutionary war. We are taught at a young age that it was heroic and crap, but the fact is, Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter whining to the king and saying his country was running away from home. The US was like a damned pre-teen kid. Seriously, I was the only one in elementary school wondering why the US did stupid shit like that (yes I was the one who always disagreed and argued with authority, so I always found something wrong with something.).
Jackson RR5 ivory w/ EMG 81/85
Jackson DX6 w/ SD Distortion & Dimarzio Super Distortion
Fender Starcaster Sunburst
Mesa/Boogie DC-3
Johnson JT50 Mirage
Ibanez TS-9
Morley Bad Horsie 2
Boss CE-5

ISP Decimator
Boss DD-6
Korg Pitchblack
#33
Quote by Ur all $h1t
So, conversely, you surely wouldn't mind if someone was going around the school telling people that God isn't real because "They can't make you believe"


I don't really care either way. It's just anti-religion is apparently the coolest thing nowadays, and it's really ****ing annoying when people do it just to be rebels.


I know they have chaplains in the army for every squad, I watched a show about it. There job isn't just about God, as most people think.
#34
Quote by Dirk Gently
The Founders looked towards Europe, where religion and government were intertwined, and saw the corruptions and abuses that arose from such a system. That's why we both have the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause in the First Amendment; it keeps government from interfering in religion, but it also keeps the government from becoming a theocracy.

Very true. Again, it's ambiguous. My stance is the former, but I do take into account that they could have meant the latter. In history, corruption came from both directions, so we can really never know I guess.
Jackson RR5 ivory w/ EMG 81/85
Jackson DX6 w/ SD Distortion & Dimarzio Super Distortion
Fender Starcaster Sunburst
Mesa/Boogie DC-3
Johnson JT50 Mirage
Ibanez TS-9
Morley Bad Horsie 2
Boss CE-5

ISP Decimator
Boss DD-6
Korg Pitchblack
#35
As to whether it's unconstitutional, you have to look at what level the administration is influencing the establishment of this "chaplain," or whether it's something they're allowing the students to do for themselves. The Supreme Court has said repeatedly that expression of religion by students cannot be stifled, but representatives of the state (the school administration) can't lead students in prayer or promote the existence of such groups.
Hi, I'm Peter
#36
Quote by apak
Yeah. That's smart of you actually.

I'm just saying textbooks are full of correct info but they vilify the country's enemies.
Look at the revolutionary war. We are taught at a young age that it was heroic and crap, but the fact is, Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter whining to the king and saying his country was running away from home. The US was like a damned pre-teen kid. Seriously, I was the only one in elementary school wondering why the US did stupid shit like that (yes I was the one who always disagreed and argued with authority, so I always found something wrong with something.).

Sort of like how parts the south teaches the civil war differently that parts of the north right? It's crazy IMO, but it's done.

Quote by Dirk Gently
As to whether it's unconstitutional, you have to look at what level the administration is influencing the establishment of this "chaplain," or whether it's something they're allowing the students to do for themselves. The Supreme Court has said repeatedly that expression of religion by students cannot be stifled, but representatives of the state (the school administration) can't lead students in prayer or promote the existence of such groups.

I've heard of cases for that reason before but I wasn't really sure how it applied. I'll have to look it up.
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god



www.youtube.com/user/andrew12398
Last edited by andrew12398 at Oct 28, 2009,
#37
Quote by andrew12398
Sort of like how parts the south teaches the civil war differently that parts of the north right? It's crazy IMO, but it's done.

I didn't know about that, but yeah I guess. Maybe they do do that because I heard in Texas, you say the pledge of allegiance, and then you say the texan one. XD too much pride.
Jackson RR5 ivory w/ EMG 81/85
Jackson DX6 w/ SD Distortion & Dimarzio Super Distortion
Fender Starcaster Sunburst
Mesa/Boogie DC-3
Johnson JT50 Mirage
Ibanez TS-9
Morley Bad Horsie 2
Boss CE-5

ISP Decimator
Boss DD-6
Korg Pitchblack
#38
i think some people are confused in this thread. separation of church and state doesnt mean no religion, it means no official religion. a public school can absolutely have a chaplain but if they do, they must allow chaplains of all faiths. they cant have teachers be the chaplains, but as long as its a student its 100% legal.
Remember through sounds
Remember through smells
Remember through colors
Remember through towns
-Modest Mouse, "Novocaine Stain"
#39
We don't have one of them, but we have a bunch of knobs who put on an "exo day" every year, in which we get to see people vomit after drinking a lot of milk, among other things. Apparently, this is entertaining.

And then we get preached at by some ****wit who knows about four words, can't come up with a legitimate point, tries to say atheists are all drug addicts and unable to come to their own non-religious conclusions, and seems to think "real" is a noun.

/bitterness
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
Last edited by whalepudding at Oct 28, 2009,