#1
The drummer of my band wants to buy some proper gear for recording drums as we are to record an EP soon and want to move away from programmed drums

His set consists of:
2 bass drums
1 snare
7-8 toms (I forget exactly how many)
cymbals
other drums/percussion (cowbell, effect-snare, 3 roto-toms, bongo, etc)

NOTE: we also need a new interface as our only one available is only 2 channel.

He wants to get everything miced (except other drums/percussion), but I have a more quality-over-quantity approach... Ideally, he wants to mic all his drums, but as we also have to buy an interface, Im thinking we might end up with a lot of problems (phase cancellation, bad/cheap mics, lots of bleeding) if we do that...?
My proposal would be something like:
4 channel interface ->
2 overheads mics to 2 channels
1 snare mic to 1 channel
2 bassdrum mics to 1 channel
Good/bad idea?
He is a bit afraid his toms won't be very punchy and cut through the mix - how bad will this be with this setup?

How do we get the best possible setup?
Recommend us mics, interfaces, recording setups, ideas, ANYTHING!


(to americans: 700£ ~ 1300-1500$ - but keep in mind that european prices are higher than us prices. Check thomann.de for european prices.)
#2
M-Audio Profire 2626 - £360

Kick: AKG d112 - roughly £80x2 from ebay

Snare: Shure sm57 - £50 ebay

Hi-Hat: JTS CX509 - £50

Overheads: Rode NT5's - £230 pair

£800

You could probably save a bit of money getting all of those second hand

Does he absolutely need to use all of those drums? if you can get him to use a double kick pedal instead of 2 kick drums you can save £80 and 1 interface channel - you could put the £80 to getting some no-brand d606 clip on tom mics for £20 each (scour ebay & google), and use them on the most important toms.
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Last edited by Sonny_sam at Oct 30, 2009,
#3
Quote by xFilth
The drummer of my band wants to buy some proper gear for recording drums as we are to record an EP soon and want to move away from programmed drums

His set consists of:
2 bass drums
1 snare
7-8 toms (I forget exactly how many)
cymbals
other drums/percussion (cowbell, effect-snare, 3 roto-toms, bongo, etc)

NOTE: we also need a new interface as our only one available is only 2 channel.

He wants to get everything miced (except other drums/percussion), but I have a more quality-over-quantity approach... Ideally, he wants to mic all his drums, but as we also have to buy an interface, Im thinking we might end up with a lot of problems (phase cancellation, bad/cheap mics, lots of bleeding) if we do that...?
My proposal would be something like:
4 channel interface ->
2 overheads mics to 2 channels
1 snare mic to 1 channel
2 bassdrum mics to 1 channel
Good/bad idea?
He is a bit afraid his toms won't be very punchy and cut through the mix - how bad will this be with this setup?

How do we get the best possible setup?
Recommend us mics, interfaces, recording setups, ideas, ANYTHING!


(to americans: 700£ ~ 1300-1500$ - but keep in mind that european prices are higher than us prices. Check thomann.de for european prices.)


Your drummer sounds like a bit of a nightmare, you're going to want to drastically simplify his kit if you want to have any hope of doing this right and doing it well. Don't let him have 8 toms - this is excessive, theres no need for them all, 3 toms is always enough for a record, 4 toms max. His toms wont punch through the mix at all unless you close mic all of them - that would use 8 channels in itself, there's no need - simplicity is king, and for what its worth I doubt the guy is Terry Bozio.

You're going to want about 8 channels ideally, 2 x Overhead, 3 x Toms 1 x Snare, 2 x Kick. Don't worry too much about the hi-hat, you'll get enough bleed through the snare mic and in conjunction with the overheads it should sound ok.

So definately get something like a Profire 2626 or a Presonus FP10, if you want to budget a bit on the mics then Red5 drum mic kits get a good write-up (http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html) maybe order the RVK7 set with an extra kick mic and maybe an shure sm57 and you'll be set. This is gonna set you back about £500-£600 so well within budget.

You can do a four channel set up, but you cant put two kick mics through one channel cos 1=/= 2. The Glyn Jones mic technique uses four mics - two overheads, 1 kick, 1 snare, but you really need a tight drummer, and usually the more bits they have on their kit the less tight they actually are.

If you're tracking metal though the Glyn Jones method really isnt an option, also make sure to record him to a click, make sure it's tight and get him to prepare before hand, this will do your tightness a lot of favours, theres nothing worse than a drummer speeding up and slowing down on record - it sounds fantastically sloppy and contrary to what some drummers state it doesnt "mess the groove" just improves the tightness of the whole band.

Oh and you wont get any phase issues unless you double mic something usually, like the top and the bottom of the snare at once, or the top and bottom of a tom at once - you get the idea.
#4
well since your on a budget have a look at red5 audio for drum mics . they are very good and have been compare to the seinheisers
jackson dk2 2008
hamer xt sunburst qt
epiphone g400
peavey vk212
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behringer pb1000
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behringer dc 9 comp
member of the Jackson/Charvel Owners Club

£8.50/58fund for a ROCKTRON HUSH SUPER C PEDAL
#5
Quote by Sonny_sam
M-Audio Profire 2626 - £360

Kick: AKG d112 - roughly £80x2 from ebay

Snare: Shure sm57 - £50 ebay

Hi-Hat: JTS CX509 - £50

Overheads: Rode NT5's - £230 pair

£800

You could probably save a bit of money getting all of those second hand

Does he absolutely need to use all of those drums? if you can get him to use a double kick pedal instead of 2 kick drums you can save £80 and 1 interface channel - you could put the £80 to getting some no-brand d606 clip on tom mics for £20 each (scour ebay & google), and use them on the most important toms.

+1 this is your best option. I really agree on using one bass drum and only 3-4 toms.
#6
Thanks a lot guys! Ill talk to him some more about this, propose your ideas and return if I have any new questions
#7
Quote by Beefmo
So definately get something like a Profire 2626 or a Presonus FP10, if you want to budget a bit on the mics then Red5 drum mic kits get a good write-up (http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html) maybe order the RVK7 set with an extra kick mic and maybe an shure sm57 and you'll be set. This is gonna set you back about £500-£600 so well within budget..


Is it worth it spending 90£ more on the 2626 or would be as well off with the Firepod, spending that last money on cables/stands?
#8
Quote by xFilth
Is it worth it spending 90£ more on the 2626 or would be as well off with the Firepod, spending that last money on cables/stands?

the firepod seems good, but it depends what you want in the end. i think the profire2626 is overall higher quality, but it might be worth it to save the 300$ and disperse it for other things.
#10
Quote by CatharsisStudio
2 profires.
1 aptrigga (its a program)
2 ohs
get drum triggers galore
trigger the whole ****ing kit.

find free samples

why 2 profires? if youre getting them for the triggers he could save ALOT of money by getting an alesis trigger i/o. he could then just plug it into his computer and get a drum sampler (SD2.0,slate drums,Addictive drums etc....)
#11
Quote by xFilth
Is it worth it spending 90£ more on the 2626 or would be as well off with the Firepod, spending that last money on cables/stands?


Common opinion is that the pre's on the Profire are better as well as its drivers being more stable. If you wanted to really budget on the interface though you could probably get a Firepod for about £250 second hand.
#12
I'm not too familiar with the Profire (Although I am quite interested now), but second hand firepods are cheap these days.
#13
my bad sense your triggering do this


Profire 2626
ada9000 (giving you 16 channels to mic all his ****ing toms :\ or trigger em


run the mics into the profire for overheads snare. room mics ( thats 6 mics already)

trigger using the ADA8000 connected via adat

so kick trig 1 kick trig 2 to the profire ( thats all 8 of your i/o taken)

to the ada8000
snare
tom
tom
tom
tom
tom
tom
tom

http://www.thomann.de/gb/maudio_profire_2626.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_ultragain_pro8_digital_ada8000.htm

or get 2 firepods. its all up to you


so it would look like this hooking it up
---PROFIRE--
1. - OH R
2 - OH L
3 - Snare
4 - snare bottom?
5- ROOM L
6- ROOM R
7. kick trig
8. kick trig

-ADA8000-
9(1) Snare
10(2) TOM 1
11(3) TOM 2
12(4) TOM 3
13(5) TOM 4
14(6) TOM 5
15(7) TOM 6
16(8) TOM 7
Last edited by CatharsisStudio at Nov 2, 2009,
#14
Is there any sense in micing both top and bottom of the snare if you're replacing it with a sample?
#16
I don't like triggered drums - I would always go with mics over triggers even though triggers offer more flexability afterwards. I just think sampled drums of any kind sound artificial & while I realise they can be much tighter than a real drummer - I prefer the natural feel of mic'd drums. That's just what I would do though - it's really up to you, there are pros & cons to both options.
Quote by griffRG7321
become a circumsizer, you get like £60,000 a year + tips.

Quote by Flying Couch
Because I'm not aerodynamic. All the other airborne furniture laugh at me.

LIKE PORTISHEAD?
#18
Quote by Sonny_sam
I don't like triggered drums - I would always go with mics over triggers even though triggers offer more flexability afterwards. I just think sampled drums of any kind sound artificial & while I realise they can be much tighter than a real drummer - I prefer the natural feel of mic'd drums. That's just what I would do though - it's really up to you, there are pros & cons to both options.


Only sounds artificial if its not done right.

Lots of professional productions mix in samples of the house kit to improve consistency of playing. If its done right you won't ever notice.