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#1
so, tomorrow I was going to go into a guitar shop to buy my first tube amp - then my guitar teacher came. I mentioned to him the amps I was looking at, and he has now successfully convinced my dad that my Vov modelling amp is better than a small hand-wired tube amp would be. How should I attempt to convince him this is not the case? I will be paying in full for the amp - so I'm not spending his money!
#2
Go out, buy the amp, tell him it is the modelling amp. How would he know?
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#3
get a new guitar teacher....


tell you dad to allow to make your own decisions, and if you make a mistake let you fix it!
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#4
i think your teacher should butt out. You're paying him to teach you guitar, not tell you what gear to buy. And considering what an awful lot of music teachers have suggested regarding gear, judging by the threads on here, they should stick to the music...

which tube amp were you looking at? you could beat them at their own game by getting something with power scaling or something like that.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#5
Erm....
how can a guitar teacher thing that modeling amps are better than handwired tube amps?
He think that because he likes technology?
1. You're surfing the internet.
2. You're browsing through the UG forums.
3. You're reading now.
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#7
Go out and get it anyway. It's your money, therefore there's nothing either can do about you purchasing it, unless your dad flips out and says you can't live in his house and not live by his rules or something like that.
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#8
well what amp were you looking at? He might've been right
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#10
assuming you're after vintage marshall tones, and not after a range of tones, I'd agree with you. Assuming you don't think the cornell is too dear.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
Quote by ILiKePiNeAppLeS
Go out, buy the amp, tell him it is the modelling amp. How would he know?
I wouldn't suggest lying to your parents. That may aggravate things more when he finds out you've bought a better amp.

Quote by SwampAshSpecial
http://www.dc-developments.com/cornell_plexi7_combo.htm
that is the amp

this guy isn't a tech buff or anything - he owns 2 vintage AC30s!
He may genuinely believe the Vox Valvetronix is better than any amp YOU may show him, possibly demonstrating a lack of trust and respect for your decisions and opinions. Which doesn't sound like a nice person to me.
Or he may simply need educating. Maybe he doesn't realise that Cornell are a renouned British boutique amp maker.
#12
Take your dad and your amp to the store or perhaps the maker of the amp and get the amp maker's side of the story.
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#14
The Cornell is a great amp. However, it might leave you feeling very exposed if you're not a very advanced player. It's entirely your decision though. I'm a big Cornell fan as it is.
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#16
Quote by SwampAshSpecial
what do you mean 'exposed'?
It means it's a very responsive amp. If you make a mistake, it will tell you. We're not talking about Mesa Boogie, Peavey 6505 bullshit saturation, this is an amplifier that amplifies your guitar. If you f*ck up, you'll know.

It makes you a better player, but you have to have the patience.

Have you looked into Matamp. They are cheaper than Cornell.
#17
Quote by AngryGoldfish
It means it's a very responsive amp. If you make a mistake, it will tell you. We're not talking about Mesa Boogie, Peavey 6505 bullshit saturation, this is an amplifier that amplifies your guitar. If you f*ck up, you'll know.

It makes you a better player, but you have to have the patience.

tbh that is a good thing
#18
Quote by AngryGoldfish
I wouldn't suggest lying to your parents. That may aggravate things more when he finds out you've bought a better amp.


+1... don't do the teenage kid thing

Quote by AngryGoldfish
He may genuinely believe the Vox Valvetronix is better than any amp YOU may show him, possibly demonstrating a lack of trust and respect for your decisions and opinions.


Not his decision to make.

I'd just quit the classes right now. You're paying him to teach you, not make comments or judgement about your gear, TS.

I'd just not buy any amp, if your parents care enough to ask why, then share with them the reason.

Quote by AngryGoldfish
We're not talking about Mesa Boogie, Peavey 6505 bullshit saturation


Dude, have you had any experience with a Mark amp, its heavily generalising to say that Mesa Boogies sound like 6505s?
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#19
As far as I'm concerned, Boogies descended from heaven on a heavenly A Major soundwave played over a choir of angels singing America/God Save The Queen and giving out free candy.

I don't believe that a plexi sounds better than a boogie.
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#21
Quote by SwampAshSpecial
http://www.dc-developments.com/cornell_plexi7_combo.htm
that is the amp

this guy isn't a tech buff or anything - he owns 2 vintage AC30s!

That is a pretty sexy amp

I think your guitar teacher is smoking crack.
#22
As your all of 13 yo, have a music teacher and have only been a member of UG for a short time, can we assume you have not been playing guitar for very long. That your teacher may not have actually told your dad the vox is BETTER than the tube amp, but more of a case he informed your dad at your skill level you dont need a 1400$ tube amp. That you need to spend less time buying new gear and more time playing guitar. Just a thought.

Second as your 13 Im pretty sure your gonna have to listen to dad on this. I can almost picture this situation when I was a kid if I had basically said screw you dad I will buy what I want "Its my money". He would have said "fine" walked out of the room then my room would have went dark, then told me "you have the money for a new amp you have the money to pay for the electric to power it".
#23
Quote by Tackleberry
but more of a case he informed your dad at your skill level you dont need a 1400$ tube amp. That you need to spend less time buying new gear and more time playing guitar. Just a thought.


Logical fallacy here. You're implying that the OP will continue to purchase gear after this amp instead of focusing on guitar, which is not necessarily a pertinent correlation. A new amp, particularly one as articulate as a Cornell, will either encourage the OP to get better or discourage him enough to quit. These sorts of amps make or break players. These are also not mutually exclusive events, either, in that you can continue to purchase gear while also expanding your skills.

Spending a couple hours at the store playing guitars into different amps also does no harm to one's playing ability.

If I was dissatisfied with the quality of sound I had, I would certainly be less encouraged to play as I wouldn't be as close to the ideal sound in my head. If I feel my tone is bad I actually play worse than I normally do.
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#24
Quote by Tackleberry
As your all of 13 yo, have a music teacher and have only been a member of UG for a short time, can we assume you have not been playing guitar for very long. That your teacher may not have actually told your dad the vox is BETTER than the tube amp, but more of a case he informed your dad at your skill level you dont need a 1400$ tube amp. That you need to spend less time buying new gear and more time playing guitar. Just a thought.

Second as your 13 Im pretty sure your gonna have to listen to dad on this. I can almost picture this situation when I was a kid if I had basically said screw you dad I will buy what I want "Its my money". He would have said "fine" walked out of the room then my room would have went dark, then told me "you have the money for a new amp you have the money to pay for the electric to power it".

well, I'd call 7 years pretty much long enough to know what I'm doing....
#25
Quote by woodenbandman
As far as I'm concerned, Boogies descended from heaven on a heavenly A Major soundwave played over a choir of angels singing America/God Save The Queen and giving out free candy.

I don't believe that a plexi sounds better than a boogie.


+1
this = awesome!

so maybe next time you have a lesson you ask your teach why he uses ac30's but insists that your amp is better? then maybe he says something to the effect of, "yeah, but i play GOOD tube amps," at which point you educate him on the one you're looking at... at which point he says, "uh, umm, yeah, but [bullshit]..." at which point you call him on his bs and fire his ass?
#26
Quote by Raijouta
If I feel my tone is bad I actually play worse than I normally do.


couldn't agree more (and sorry for 2x post).

also, TS, yes, 7 years is long enough if you've spent a lot of that time digging through what's out there, and from the looks of the amp you have your eyes on, i'd say it's fair to assume you've done your homework.

...tha is quite a lot of money to spend on an amp you can only use on stage when mic'd tho... just sayin'
#27
Quote by ragingkitty
+1... don't do the teenage kid thing


Not his decision to make.

I'd just quit the classes right now. You're paying him to teach you, not make comments or judgement about your gear, TS.

I'd just not buy any amp, if your parents care enough to ask why, then share with them the reason.
I'd probably do the same. Or you could explain to him how you feel. Get his point of view on the matter; it could just be a communication problem.
Dude, have you had any experience with a Mark amp, its heavily generalising to say that Mesa Boogies sound like 6505s?
I was generalizing to make point. And I was only referring to the standard Rectifier series, as they're the only Mesa's I've played, besides an F30 years ago. I didn't actually mean those amps are bullsh*t, simply that they are in a different league of design and sound.

Quote by woodenbandman
As far as I'm concerned, Boogies descended from heaven on a heavenly A Major soundwave played over a choir of angels singing America/God Save The Queen and giving out free candy.

I don't believe that a plexi sounds better than a boogie.
Whether a Plexi sounds "better" than a Boogie is subjective.

Quote by kh2
Do look into Matamp before you buy!!!
+1

I'm not saying Matamp will be better or worse for you, simply it's a different brand with different tones, capabilities, quality and price.

I see what you're saying, Tackleberry, but it's not really his place to say whether he's good enough for a great amp or not, at this time. It's his job to make sure that he is.

I agree with Raijouta, in that I'd feel discouraged to play if I knew my amps weren't cutting it for me, irrevelant of my skill level.
#28
If your teacher thinks your amp is better, tell him to put is money where his mouth is and swap his AC30 for your Valvetronix.
#29
Quote by AngryGoldfish
I'd probably do the same. Or you could explain to him how you feel. Get his point of view on the matter; it could just be a communication problem.


To be honest, regardless of whether its a communication issue or not, its still really not his place to make such a comment which undermined your plans.

To be frank, he could have gone and shared his opinion with the TS in private. If he really thinks that the TS is not ready to have the amp, then its his opinion. He should not have jeopardised the TS's decision.

When I was teaching guitar, I'd always recommend an amp that I thought suited my students. Granted that they were beginners, but I'd highlight the positive and negative points of an amp. Even if they wanted oversized amps, I'd always highlight the pros and cons to them in private and never to their parents (if these were kids). Only when I was on the sales floor would I push products, but I always thought it unprofessional to say "you're not ready for this amp".

Altho to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt, it could really be a communication breakdown.

Quote by AngryGoldfish
I was generalizing to make point. And I was only referring to the standard Rectifier series, as they're the only Mesa's I've played, besides an F30 years ago. I didn't actually mean those amps are bullsh*t, simply that they are in a different league of design and sound.


Ah fair enough. I was initially shocked to see that statement.

Quote by AngryGoldfish
Whether a Plexi sounds "better" than a Boogie is subjective.


+1

Quote by AngryGoldfish
I agree with Raijouta, in that I'd feel discouraged to play if I knew my amps weren't cutting it for me, irrevelant of my skill level.


At the end of the day, what amp we use is independent of our skill levels. Does the fact that someone can't play dream theatre mean they can't get Mesa Marks? It's retarded to say that a person must be of so and so experience before they can buy better gear... life's not a RPG where gear use has restrictions.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Oct 30, 2009,
#31
Quote by ragingkitty
To be honest, regardless of whether its a communication issue or not, its still really not his place to make such a decision.
I agree. But I wouldn't want to do anything hasty.
To be frank, he could have gone and shared his opinion with the TS in private. If he really thinks that the TS is not ready to have the amp, then its his opinion. He should not have jeopardised the TS's decision.
Yeah.
When I was teaching guitar, I'd always recommend an amp that I thought suited my students. Granted that they were beginners, but I'd highlight the positive and negative points of an amp. Even if they wanted oversized amps, I'd always highlight the pros and cons to them in private and never to their parents (if these were kids). Only when I was on the sales floor would I push products, but I always thought it unprofessional to say "you're not ready for this amp".
I was the same. I'd let THEM decide what they thought was most suited for themselves. I'd give them my opinion, explain the pros and cons, but always let them decide. If they then wished to correspond with their parents - usually they need to for money - then that's their business. I only wanted was to see them be happy in their progress, and for them to pay me, obviously.
Altho to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt, it could really be a communication breakdown.


Ah fair enough. I was initially shocked to see that statement.
At the end of the day, what amp we use is independent of our skill levels. Does the fact that someone can't play dream theatre mean they can't get Mesa Marks? It's retarded to say that a person must be of so and so experience before they can buy better gear... life's not a RPG where gear use has restrictions.
Nice analogy.
#33
Quote by woodenbandman
As far as I'm concerned, Boogies descended from heaven on a heavenly A Major soundwave played over a choir of angels singing America/God Save The Queen and giving out free candy.

I don't believe that a plexi sounds better than a boogie.
I've never played a Boogie that I've felt even came close to a plexi in terms of touch sensitivity and player response.
#35
your money? where does a thirteen year old get that kind of money? do you have a job?
my name is matt. you can call me that if you like.
#36
I have a plan!
The vox will do me for now - if I save my money until I'm 18 and have control over it myself, I should just about be able to afford a really nice boutique half stack like a diamond or a splawn. Until then, the vox will have to do! I have 5 years now to spend choosing which high end head I want. Its going to be nice to be able to totally ignore budgets, find something and GAS for it.
#37
Quote by SwampAshSpecial
I have a plan!
The vox will do me for now - if I save my money until I'm 18 and have control over it myself, I should just about be able to afford a really nice boutique half stack like a diamond or a splawn. Until then, the vox will have to do! I have 5 years now to spend choosing which high end head I want. Its going to be nice to be able to totally ignore budgets, find something and GAS for it.


Very respectable and understandable decision. Ping me, maybe I'll still be here

Seriously, I consider that a very mature decision. Especially if you are happy with the tone you have now.

#39
Quote by AngryGoldfish
Nice analogy.


Thank you. I try.

Quote by SwampAshSpecial
I have a plan!
The vox will do me for now - if I save my money until I'm 18 and have control over it myself, I should just about be able to afford a really nice boutique half stack like a diamond or a splawn. Until then, the vox will have to do! I have 5 years now to spend choosing which high end head I want. Its going to be nice to be able to totally ignore budgets, find something and GAS for it.


I was wondering when that'll occur to you.

like 311 said, it is a very mature and smart move.

While I'm sure you like the original amp, I'm sure you'll be able to find an even better amp in the next 5 years. Do keep me updated... I'll like to see what you get.

For all you know... maybe you can get some uber rack gear.

Then you can snap a picture of whatever amp you choose and send it to your teacher, and thank him for the "advice".

Yes, before someone makes the observation, I'm a very vindictive person by nature.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Oct 30, 2009,
#40
Quote by SwampAshSpecial
I work at my local guitar shop!


but you're still financially dependent on your parents, right?

either way, you seem to have reached the correct conclusion.
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