#2
Quote by Sir-Shredalot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU

I was watching this, and noticed it listed 7th chords eg C7, Amin7 and Amaj7.

Could someone explain to me why they list maj and min but also just 7 on its own? I thought 7 was minor?

(btw i just listed random chords as an example there...the video is very fast lol!)


7 on its on refers to a dominant seventh chord which has a major third, perfect fifth, and minor seventh. It's just convention to drop the dominant part of the name and simply write 7.
#3
Quote by Sir-Shredalot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU

I was watching this, and noticed it listed 7th chords eg C7, Amin7 and Amaj7.

Could someone explain to me why they list maj and min but also just 7 on its own? I thought 7 was minor?

(btw i just listed random chords as an example there...the video is very fast lol!)


C7 is a 1 3 5 b7
Amin7 is a 1b3 5 b7
Amaj7 is 1 3 5 7

The maj refers to the 7th degree, telling you to raise the 7th.

The minor refers to the A chord, which tells you to lower the 3rd.

The C7 is understood as a b7
#4
I'm interested to know about the minor 7th chord which has the sharpened 7th like in a harmonic minor scale.

Like Dm would be

D F A C#

Would this just be called Dm#7?
#5
Quote by twat
I'm interested to know about the minor 7th chord which has the sharpened 7th like in a harmonic minor scale.

Like Dm would be

D F A C#

Would this just be called Dm#7?

pretty sure you're correct
I smile because I have no idea whats goin on
#6
Quote by twat
I'm interested to know about the minor 7th chord which has the sharpened 7th like in a harmonic minor scale.

Like Dm would be

D F A C#

Would this just be called Dm#7?


Dm(Maj7)
shred is gaudy music
#7
Quote by twat
I'm interested to know about the minor 7th chord which has the sharpened 7th like in a harmonic minor scale.

Like Dm would be

D F A C#

Would this just be called Dm#7?


Dm(maj7)
#8
Quote by twat
I'm interested to know about the minor 7th chord which has the sharpened 7th like in a harmonic minor scale.

Like Dm would be

D F A C#

Would this just be called Dm#7?


DFAC is Dmin7

DFAC# is DmMaj7

Again we see that the term maj after a chord with a 7th in it is refering to the seventh itself. It would be redundant to say C(the major is implied) maj7 hence why that maj is refering to the 7th.

It is a DmMaj7 because the 7th had to be raised while keeping the 3rd lowered.

That make sense?
#9
Quote by twat
I'm interested to know about the minor 7th chord which has the sharpened 7th like in a harmonic minor scale.

Like Dm would be

D F A C#

Would this just be called Dm #7?

nope. Just D minor maj 7
D to an F is a minor interval,
D to an a is major interval
and D to c# is a major 7th, so no need for the #7
I smile because I have no idea whats goin on
Last edited by fenderuser93 at Oct 30, 2009,
#10
Let's start at the beginning

First there are your triads. These are made by stacking thirds of different kinds.
A brief rundown:
Maj 3rd + Maj 3rd = Augmented Triad (1 3 ♯5)
Maj 3rd + min 3rd = Major Triad (1 3 5)
min 3rd + Maj 3rd = minor Triad (1 ♭3 5)
min 3rd + min 3rd = diminished Triad (1 ♭3 ♭5)

From here you can then stack another major or minor third on top of the fifth of each of these basic triads to get a different type of seventh chord.

Note that we use whatever kind of fifth we have in our basic triad and add the major or minor third from there. So if we have a perfect fifth we might add a major 3rd the result will be a major 7 interval from the root. If it is a ♭5 in our triad and we add a major third to this we will end up with a minor 7th from the root.

So to get our various seventh chords we go through each of the four basic triads and stack a third on top.

Here are the various seventh chords built using different triads as a base:

Sevenths built from Augmented Triads

Aug Triad + Maj 3rd = Augmented Triad (a Major 3rd on top of a ♯5 will give a ♯7. Since the ♯7 is enharmonic with the octave of the root the result is a doubling of the root note and it's still just an augmented triad. (1 3 ♯5 ♯7 is enharmonic with 1 3 ♯5 8).

Aug Triad + min 3rd = Augmented Major Seventh, or Maj7♯5 (1 3 ♯5 7)

Sevenths built from Major Triads

Major Triad + Major 3rd = Major 7th chord (1 3 5 7) - written as Cmaj7

Major Triad + min 3rd = Dominant 7 (1 3 5 ♭7) - written simply as C7

Sevenths built from Minor Triad

Minor Triad + Major 3rd = minor Major 7 (1 ♭3 5 7) - written as Cm/Maj7

Minor Triad + min 3rd = minor 7 (1 ♭3 5 ♭7) - written as Cm7

Sevenths built from Diminished Triad

Diminished Triad + Maj 3rd = half diminished 7th or minor 7 flat five (1 ♭3 ♭5 ♭7) - written as either CØ7 or more commonly Cm7♭5
Diminished Triad + min 3rd = fully diminished 7th (1 ♭3 ♭5 ♭♭7) - Cdim7 or C°7

These are the basic triads and seventh chords built from "Tertian Harmony" which means to use maj and min thirds for construction.

Altered Seventh Chords
There are also some seventh chords that aren't constructed in the same way (using strictly major and minor thirds only) but still have a root, third, fifth and seventh of some kind. These can be viewed as altered versions of one of the above chords and still considered seventh chords each with it's own unique sound and character such as...

Dominant seventh sharp five = 1 3 ♯5 ♭7 = C7♯5 - An augmented triad with a minor seventh

a diminished/major seventh = 1 ♭3 ♭5 7 = Cdim/Maj7 or Cm/Maj7b5 diminished triad with a major seventh.

Notice how the distance between the fifths and respective sevenths are the altered interval while the base triad is still one of our four basic triads.

There are also other altered chords where the base triad is altered maj/min resulting int the altered interval being that between the third and fifth e.g.

Dominant seventh flat five = 1 3 ♭5 ♭7

Major seventh flat five = 1 3 ♭5 7


Soooo....

That gives a total of Ten different seventh chords.

Here they are again
Seven "Tertian" Seventh Chords
1. Major seventh = 1 3 5 7 (e.g. CMaj7 or CM7 or C△7)
2. Dominant seventh = 1 3 5 ♭7 (e.g. C7)
3. Minor seventh = 1 ♭3 5 ♭7 (Cm7 or C-7)
4. minor/major seventh = 1 ♭3 5 7 (Cm/M7 or Cm△7 or C-△7 or variations thereof)
5. Half diminished seventh = 1 ♭3 ♭5 ♭7 (e.g. Cø or Cø7 aka Cm7♭5)
6. Fully diminished seventh = 1 ♭3 ♭5 ♭♭7 (e.g. C°7 or Cdim7)
7. Augmented Maj7 = 1 3 ♯5 7 (e.g. C+Maj7, C+△7, CAug/Maj7 aka CMaj7♯5 or C△7♯5)

plus Three "Altered" Seventh Chords
8. Dominant seventh sharp 5 = 1 3 ♯5 ♭7 (e.g. C7♯5 aka Caug/min7 or C+7 or CAug7)
9. Dominant seventh flat 5 = 1 3 ♭5 ♭7 (e.g. C7♭5)
10. Major seventh flat 5 = 1 3 ♭5 7 (e.g. CMaj7♭5 or C△7♭5)

A useful tip in naming chords. In order to tell what a chord is you need to know the quality of he base triad and the quality of the seventh.
The triad is assumed Major unless otherwise noted.
The seventh is assumed minor unless otherwise noted.

So C7 has no major or minor indication so it must be a major triad with a minor seventh.

Cm7 on the other hand has a minor label - we know we don't need the minor sign to indicate the minor seventh since that is assumed so the "m" must refer to the triad and this must be a C minor triad with a minor seventh.

CMaj7 we know the base triad is assumed major so the Maj label must be referring to the seventh giving us a C major triad with a major seventh.

Half diminished means that half of the equation is diminished (the triad) while the 7th is minor (assumed)

Fully diminished means both sides of the equation are diminished giving us a diminished triad with a diminished seventh.

So that's seventh chords.
Good Luck.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Nov 1, 2009,
#11
^All excellent information.

C+7 and C7+ both refer to the Dominant Seventh Sharp 5 as well.
C°7 refers to the diminished seventh (he might've had this, but it came up as a sqaure :confused
Cø△7 is often renamed B(♭9).
#12
Good point. I edited my post.

I took the diminished major 7th out as it is an altered seventh and the enharmonic equivalent you pointed out is a simpler way to label that chord

Similarly I never included the minor/major seventh sharp 5 as it is also better named as a different chord.

The minor seventh sharp 5 was supposed to be in there though.

Many of the chords have enharmonic names. The Aug/M7 or C+/M7 is enharmonic to an E(♭6). I think the E(♭6) is simpler but since the chord is formed by stacking thirds I thought it should be included anyway.

The m7♯5 though C E♭ G♯ B♭ could also be a G♯m(11) or G♯madd11 or if the C appears only in the bass it's a simple G♯m/C chord. But there's something elegantly simple about the name m7♯5 so I left it in there. In this chord though (especially with the minor third present) the augmented fifth could be considered by it's enharmonic equivalent a minor sixth or, since the seventh is present, a minor 13th. So the chord could also be called Cm7♭13.


But seriously the frequency you will use these chords is fairly low.

Anyway my list isn't exhaustive but hopefully it gives you enough of an idea to be able to work this stuff out on your own and understand how seventh chords work
- peace out.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Nov 1, 2009,
#13
Quote by 20Tigers
The m7♯5 though C E♭ G♯ B♭ could also be a G♯m(11) or G♯madd11 or if the C appears only in the bass it's a simple G♯m/C chord.


It'd be respelt as B♯ D♯ G♯ A♯ and it would be a G♯add9 chord, which is a fairly common chord type. Or it could be called G♯/A♯ if the A♯ is in the bass. I think you got confused, and thought G♯ to B♭ is a minor third, when really its a diminished third, and that G♯ to C is a perfect fourth when really its a diminished fourth. I think the add9 is a more elegant chord name than a m7♯5.
#14
i edited again.

It was a case of brain fry. I knew there was a reason I hadn't put chose m7♯5 chords in there originally. Thanks for catching me out. I'll get there eventually.
Si
#15
Quote by isaac_bandits
^All excellent information.

C+7 and C7+ both refer to the Dominant Seventh Sharp 5 as well.
C°7 refers to the diminished seventh (he might've had this, but it came up as a sqaure :confused
Cø△7 is often renamed B(♭9).

Slightly off topic, how do you get the delta and the flat symbols? Is there an ascii code for those?
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#16
Quote by 7even
Slightly off topic, how do you get the delta and the flat symbols? Is there an ascii code for those?


For ♭ you can do & # 9 8 3 7 ; without spaces.
For Δ you can do & # 9 1 6 ; without spaces.
#17
Quote by isaac_bandits
For ♭ you can do & # 9 8 3 7 ; without spaces.
For Δ you can do & # 9 1 6 ; without spaces.

Thanks.
Does this only work on the net? I'm always wasting time looking for a delta when doing physics assignments.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#18
Quote by 7even
Thanks.
Does this only work on the net? I'm always wasting time looking for a delta when doing physics assignments.


They are html codes (I think that's the right word; something to do with html anyways) so it will only work in html enabled places (read: the web). Whenever doing math or science assignments in a word processor I just use the special character or symbol inserting thing, and it takes a while.
#19
I have a Mac. I go to Edit - Special Characters in the Safari Menu and it brings up a "Character Palette". I keep it open and click insert when I need them.

One day I might look into seeing if I can reassign some of the keys on my keyboard which would be cool.

I think in Windows it's the character map. It has the keystrokes you can use for each symbol too.
Si