#1
I'm buying a Bugera 55w tube amp, which has an effects loop. I was wondering if buying a multi effects pedal would completely ruin the point of buying a tube amp. I mainly need the pedal for modulation and delays (I don't really need the distortions / amp modeling), and i have a budget of $400 max. Would the tube tone be ruined? What if its true bypass? What about if i run it through the effects loop? If there are some Multi FX pedals out there that still let you keep your tube amp's tone, what are some suggestions?

On the other hand, Ive heard people say to just buy a bunch of cheaper pedals instead of a multi fx pedal. But wouldn't cheap solid state pedals also ruin the tone of the tube amp? Then I would have to buy analog pedals, which cost a whole lot and maybe even more than a Multi FX pedal.

Please help a confused fella out.

(PS: its my b-day )
Because we seperate... it ripples our reflections.
.snoitcelfer ruo selppir ti...etarepes ew esuaceB
#2
IMHO, don't get a multi-fx. I bought one and I regret it. Instead, get some good sounding analog pedals or something.
Gear:
Squier Strat
Cordoba 20TM-CE Acoustic Electric Tenor Uke
Bugera V22
#3
A unit like the RP1000 is designed to allow you to integrate the multifx with your amp loop and bypass the modeling. The GT-8/10 does this as well. So the cheapest would be a used GT-8 ($200-$225). Do a little research on 4CM or 4 cable method to get an understanding of what you need to do and look for in a multifx. If you don't need an expression pedal control then a Yamaha Magicstomp used from eBay is an economical way to get a lot of time/mod fx in your loop.
#4
Quote by fly135
A unit like the RP1000 is designed to allow you to integrate the multifx with your amp loop and bypass the modeling. The GT-8/10 does this as well. So the cheapest would be a used GT-8 ($200-$225). Do a little research on 4CM or 4 cable method to get an understanding of what you need to do and look for in a multifx. If you don't need an expression pedal control then a Yamaha Magicstomp used from eBay is an economical way to get a lot of time/mod fx in your loop.


Sounds good, but will it affect my tube tone?
Because we seperate... it ripples our reflections.
.snoitcelfer ruo selppir ti...etarepes ew esuaceB
#6
Well, if the Line6 delay and modulation processors are good enough for Pearl Jam's Mike McCready, hell, they're good enough for anyone...

http://media.photobucket.com/image/mike%20mccready%20gear/goodtruant/CCFA06/Dsc01847.jpg

I'm not mad on modelling or multi fx, so I wouldn't use them myself. Even if HE can make them sound AWESOME!!!
Gear:

Is what some junkies refer to heroin as. For me it's just loads of wires and good sturdy housing, but just as addictive.
#7
Quote by trurob101
Sounds good, but will it affect my tube tone?
If you use just the time/modulation FX and stick to your amp's preamp it won't negate your tube tone. Even with a tube amp using distortion pedals will affect your tube tone. Sometimes that the desired effect. You might find some distortion FX int the multifx that you like to use sometimes. Using the 4CM method offers you that flexibility. You need a multifx and an amp with loops to do this.
#8
fly, i know you know what you're talking about, but can we pleeeease stop calling it "the 4CM?" it's just "using your fx loop," nothing more or less. most multi's have the ins and outs clearly marked. it's idiot proof.

also, TS, if you're worried about the amp models getting in the way, simply bypass them, but it is possible you'll like some of them.

i typically do not recommend multi's, but you're working on a budget, and yes, it is better than buying CHEAPO individual pedals... in some cases it's the exact same thing only less expensive.

expect noise from them though. if you can, raid pawn shops, craigslist and e-bay for an ORIGINAL line 6 floor POD, none of this XT s***. the original has the least noise of any multi i've tried, and guess what, it's got all the same sounds.

the boss multi's are going to most likely be your cheapest route, but they'll sound like the cheapest route too, with maybe the exception of digitech's RP series.

so, take a close look at your budget, think honestly about what you expect to get out of your amp, and shop around. there's no reason you should pay new prices on a multi, ever, for any reason.
#9
Quote by GrisKy
fly, i know you know what you're talking about, but can we pleeeease stop calling it "the 4CM?" it's just "using your fx loop," nothing more or less. most multi's have the ins and outs clearly marked. it's idiot proof......


Sorry, but the 4 cable method is not the same as just using the loop.

Just using the loop puts all fx's after the preamp.

Using the 4CM lets a person puts fx's in front of and after the preamp, and allows for the use of any other preamps built in the mfx unit.

Not all mfx's have the 4CM capability.

So its not as simple as "just using your fx loop"
#10
Quote by shmuck71
Sorry, but the 4 cable method is not the same as just using the loop.

Just using the loop puts all fx's after the preamp.

Using the 4CM lets a person puts fx's in front of and after the preamp, and allows for the use of any other preamps built in the mfx unit.

Not all mfx's have the 4CM capability.

So its not as simple as "just using your fx loop"


if the multi in question doesn't support "4cm" then you'd have to either run it frontloaded OR in your loop anyway due to lack of in/out jacks. and thanks, i know how it works. the ones that DO support both fl and looped simultaneous use have "send/return" marked for the loop. that send/return pair would, in fact, just be using your goddamn loop.

"4cm" is just some cute little acronym a UG bastard came up with to sound cool, and it caught on HERE like everything else here catches on --> with bandwagoners. no one who makes a real living as a sound engineer calls it that. try harder the next time you want to be matter-of-fact-ly. enjoy the pit.
#11
Quote by GrisKy
if the multi in question doesn't support "4cm" then you'd have to either run it frontloaded OR in your loop anyway due to lack of in/out jacks. and thanks, i know how it works. the ones that DO support both fl and looped simultaneous use have "send/return" marked for the loop. that send/return pair would, in fact, just be using your goddamn loop.

"4cm" is just some cute little acronym a UG bastard came up with to sound cool, and it caught on HERE like everything else here catches on --> with bandwagoners. no one who makes a real living as a sound engineer calls it that. try harder the next time you want to be matter-of-fact-ly. enjoy the pit.


You"ve got to be kidding, right? Are you for real?

http://forum.thestompbox.net/showthread.php?t=4632&highlight=4CM

how does that foot taste? Grow up junior!
#12
If all you want is a delay/mod then I would not buy a multi. Personally I wouldn't usually recommend a multi-effect anyhow, but unless you want it for many effects it really makes no sense at all. Most multi-effects I have heard sound awful, way digital and overdone. I think even cheap-mid priced pedals generally sound much better.
You can get a decent delay with other options for under 100 bucks and I would run that through your loop.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRO-HARMONIX-MEMORY-BOY-DELAY-CHORUS-VIBRATO-PEDAL_W0QQitemZ290364770804QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item439b16c9f4

What type of other effects do you want?
#13
are you serious??? you just pointed out another worthless fvcking forum! i'm sure "Kewlpack" who "will work for gear" is so much more qualified on the subject. how about you try finding the "4cm" in an owners manual?
#14
Quote by GrisKy
are you serious??? you just pointed out another worthless fvcking forum! i'm sure "Kewlpack" who "will work for gear" is so much more qualified on the subject. how about you try finding the "4cm" in an owners manual?



Just like this one?
#15
#16
Quote by trurob101


On the other hand, Ive heard people say to just buy a bunch of cheaper pedals instead of a multi fx pedal. But wouldn't cheap solid state pedals also ruin the tone of the tube amp? Then I would have to buy analog pedals, which cost a whole lot and maybe even more than a Multi FX pedal.


Wo, wait there, how are solid state pedals not analog? Most single single pedal are analog actually.
Anyway, to answer your question, you could look for a used TC electronic G-Major, it would be perfect, but maybe you'd have to strecth your budget for a foot controller. You won't regret buying that.
#17
Quote by Chetbango


cool has nothin to do with what its called. not my fault his panties are in a bunch.
#18
If you don't want all the amp models and distortion then you're wasting your money on an ME pedal. For $400 or so you'd be better off with single pedals IMO because it sounds like you aren't even going to come close to fully utilizing the ME pedal.
#19
Grisky, 4CM is a specific way of hooking up your equipment and the best way to understand is to search for 4CM or 4 cable method along with multifx. Otherwise somebody will need to explain it every time they recommend that particular hookup. It also requires both a loop on the amp and a loop on the multifx. It is not a simple concept that is obvious to come up with on your own.

Your disillusion that you are the acronym cop makes you look like an idiot. I also doubt that someone on UG thought it up. I would go on to say that it appears you don't even know what it is, but you'd probably go look it up and then explain it back to me to prove I was wrong.
#20
shmuck, yup, just like this one.

chet, more forums? where's the manual i asked for?

fly, um, yes, it is a secific way of hooking up a multi, it's the same way you'll see it in one of the various illustrated configurations in the manual of practically every multi with a loop, but not once will you see "4cm" in any of those manuals. i dare you to look. and yes, i know exactly wtf it is without having to look it up, and of course it requires a loop on both your amp and the multi. did you even bother to read my previous post? guess not, because that's been covered.

ok, you can go back to pretending now.
#21
Quote by GrisKy

ok, you can go back to pretending now.


i like to pretend with a blind fold on, it makes it more real to me. and they always bring up old stuff like you didn't mention it earlier...

really though, a multi effects unit is just some digital effects bundled together. just like any effects there are good ones and bad ones. if multi effects suck so bad then why did steve vai use the tc electronic multi effects unit on tour? he can play with anything(repeat ANYTHING) he wants and he choose a multi effects unit.

the moral of the story: don't lump things together and generalize them, it's called stereotyping, and it regresses developement.

that being said, i don't use multi effects anymore after the my whole episode with the digitech rp20(i am old). many effects sounded quite good on it, but amp sims and distortion were horrible, and the UI on it was painful. they are much better now on both counts.

if i were looking at a multi in my effects loop, then i would look to use it mainly for reverbs, delay, and maybe some modulation effects.

edit: ever think grisky is so hard on almost everything on this site because most ideas on this site are much more rehashed second hand opinions rather than objective ubiased researched statements?
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Oct 31, 2009,
#22
Quote by GrisKy
shmuck, yup, just like this one.

chet, more forums? where's the manual i asked for?

fly, um, yes, it is a secific way of hooking up a multi, it's the same way you'll see it in one of the various illustrated configurations in the manual of practically every multi with a loop, but not once will you see "4cm" in any of those manuals. i dare you to look. and yes, i know exactly wtf it is without having to look it up, and of course it requires a loop on both your amp and the multi. did you even bother to read my previous post? guess not, because that's been covered.

ok, you can go back to pretending now.


Wow, I didn't realize we were only allowed to use terms found in manuals. You probably wouldn't find the word "multi" to describe a multi-effect either. But it is a convenient way to express an idea. So using your own flawed logic, we shouldn't pay attention to your posts either. That goes for "wtf" too. Oh, and pretty much every manual written in the english language has capital letters at the beginning of a sentence.
#23
Quote by GrisKy
fly, um, yes, it is a secific way of hooking up a multi, it's the same way you'll see it in one of the various illustrated configurations in the manual of practically every multi with a loop, but not once will you see "4cm" in any of those manuals. i dare you to look.
I believe the use of the term predates any multifx manual that shows it as an illustrated configuration. The term 4CM has been used extensively in the GT-8 community (sorry UG, you didn't invent it) to describe this particular hookup, and does not appear in the GT-8 manual.

I doubt you can support your argument. Even *if* the hookup did appear in some manual before the GT-8, it would be of no significance. The fact that there is no other terminology to concisely describe this particular configuration gives it merit. Apparently you think only a manual writer has the right to create a new term.
Last edited by fly135 at Oct 31, 2009,
#24
Quote by gumbilicious
edit: ever think grisky is so hard on almost everything on this site because most ideas on this site are much more rehashed second hand opinions rather than objective ubiased researched statements?


thankyou Gum, this is exactly the kind of BS we've been talking about... now all we need is for someone to show up and remind us what a piece of shit MGs/SpiderIIIs are.

btw, i saw your post in the thread on combo + cab impedance. thanks for clearing that mess up. i'm pretty sure metalhead knew what he was trying to say, but it came across jumbled in a huge semantics debate (not unlike this thread) until you turned it into simple math. nice save. i was going to leave a smartass comment to the affect of needing more coffee/cigarettes to decipher that thread... decided just to bounce instead. something told me it was gonna turn ugly.
#25
If you're going the MFX path, then i'd suggest stay away from cheap units that offer amp modeling & effects together in one single box. These fail badly when compared to the real amps/pedals which they imitate...
On the other hand, expensive units like eventide, tc electronics wont ruin the tone but yeah they are expensive, the higer end ones especially.

Now if i were to recommend a good, affordable MFX then it would be the TC Electronics G-Major 2. This one is way better than G-Major in terms of reliability & sound. It does only effects & modulations. It doesnt have amp models or OD/DIST in it but has alot of other features besides them. Do remember that this is a rack unit & you will need a midi footcontroller if you do not want to use your hands to change presets on it. If you can find these used & in great condition then ya lucky.
I've heard a lot of people complaining with reliabilty issues with the G-major & nova system, so i would rather stay from those, unless you are lucky to find one good unit

Next one i'd recommend is Boss GT-8, you can find it cheap online. The OD/DIST are not really great in them but the effects are good, alot better than digitech, whereas digitech has better OD/DIST but not great effects compared to GT-8. The GT units are not really easy to use so they turn off a lot of people, same with tc electronic stuff, but digitech is easier to use. In digitech I would only look at either the GSP1101(with unofficial C48 beta firmware/its been found stable so far, also its a rack unit) or the RP1000 which has an amp loop as well as an stompbox loop & its a floor unit, so no additional midi controller is required(look at its manual for more info)
Also with GT you'll have to use the 4 cable method that people have been talking about above. But among boss & digitech, I suggest boss, because you already have a good tube amp