Generally speaking, should the US have more or less involvement with foreign affairs?

Poll: Should the US increase foreign affair issues?
Poll Options
View poll results: Should the US increase foreign affair issues?
Yes, the US should focus on foreign issues of all sorts.
16 15%
No, the US should only focus on domestic issues and foreign issues that concern the itself directly.
89 85%
Voters: 105.
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#1
By foreign affairs, should the US concern itself with issues that aren't directly related to itself. As in, not messing with Israeli/Palestinian conflicts but at the same time not directly involving with humanitarian conflicts such as famine-relief, other than UN funding?

Or should it? Meaning going around and doing things like increasing African infrastructure, helping reduce poverty and hunger, but at the same time having direct involvement with things such as the Russian/Georgian conflict that happened a year or so ago, or Iranian affairs?

Poll up soon!

I say less involvement on a total level.

We stir up too many problems.
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Last edited by Weeping_Demon7 at Nov 1, 2009,
#3
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
By foreign affairs, should the US concern itself with issues that aren't directly related to itself. As in, not messing with Israeli/Palestinian conflicts but at the same time not directly involving with humanitarian conflicts such as famine-relief, other than UN funding?

Or should it? Meaning going around and doing things like increasing African infrastructure, helping reduce poverty and hunger, but at the same time having direct involvement with things such as the Russian/Georgian conflict that happened a year or so ago, or Iranian affairs?

Poll up soon!

Simultaneously raping them of their resources and converting them to christianity...

Yes and no. The US have alot of influence, they can use it to do good. The US corporations however, well... that's a different story.
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#4
Quote by Kensai
Simultaneously raping them of their resources and converting them to christianity...

Yes and no. The US have alot of influence, they can use it to do good. The US corporations however, well... that's a different story.

Which is why the question was asked as broad as possible. Both paths have advantages and disadvantages.

It's supposed to be a general statement.
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#6
Civilians should be allowed of their own accord to travel to another nation and help people they wish to help, depending on the country's own restrictions.

Goverments and military personnel should only concern themselves with nations and peoples who have affected them directly, and for other peoples they wish to help they should contribute to the United Nations' recognised and controlled efforts.
#7
The US doesn't concern itself with foreign affairs to "help them", there is always an underlying corporate or political tool that is hoped to be gained.

Therefore, less.
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#8
Less. We CAN help, but we usually just make things worse. I think its better if we focus on our own problems right now.
#9
Well less of what they are doing now. I find it strange how they will completely ignore genocides like rwanda and other african countries yet they have a big cry about Iraq.

And also the whole thing with Iran at the moment after the whole Iran-contras affair.

Basically when there is poverty and genocide they should step in but when it's for personal gain then they should stop.
#10
Quote by blue_strat
Civilians should be allowed of their own accord to travel to another nation and help people they wish to help.

Goverments and military personnel should only concern themselves with nations and peoples who have affected them directly, and for other peoples they wish to help they should contribute to the United Nations' recognised and controlled efforts.

I agree.

Plus, fiscally, it's too expensive to be the protectors.
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#11
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
I agree.

Plus, fiscally, it's too expensive to be the protectors.


No to put expenses> human life is bullshit and is one of the reasone 95% of people i meet irritate me.
#12
Quote by Wulphy
The US doesn't concern itself with foreign affairs to "help them", there is always an underlying corporate or political tool that is hoped to be gained.

Therefore, less.

No, no, no, no!

Stop trying to find corporate bias in every capitalistic government's political movements. Sometimes there is nothing there.

Quote by Greenie_777
Well less of what they are doing now. I find it strange how they will completely ignore genocides like rwanda and other african countries yet they have a big cry about Iraq.

And also the whole thing with Iran at the moment after the whole Iran-contras affair.

Basically when there is poverty and genocide they should step in but when it's for personal gain then they should stop.

Alas. That's not the question posed.
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Last edited by Weeping_Demon7 at Nov 1, 2009,
#13
i think they should stay out of other peoples shit
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#14
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
No, no, no, no!

Stop trying to find corporate bias in every capitalistic government's political movements. Sometimes there is nothing there.


Alas. That's not the question posed.


It is always there, and it's not just bias, it's control.

It pertains to the question posed.
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#15
I think we americans should just invade everyone so no one feels left out
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#16
Quote by Greenie_777
No to put expenses> human life is bullshit and is one of the reasone 95% of people i meet irritate me.

I never said that expenses should be prioritized over human life. I just said that in addition to human life, increased foreign affairs yield higher expenses.

Plus, expenses can be quantified, morals can't be unfortunately.
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#17
Quote by Wulphy
It is always there, and it's not just bias, it's control.

It pertains to the question posed.

I think that you think it's always there, when sometimes it's not.
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#18
They should get the behaviour of their corporations under control asap.
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#19
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
I think that you think it's always there, when sometimes it's not.


Name one conflict America has been involved in that hasn't been abused by or caused by corporate greed. Let's leave out WW1 and WW2, as there is no solid proof for either side, and the political shitstorm during those times are not something I want to go into great detail about right now.
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#20
Quote by Wulphy
Name one conflict America has been involved in that hasn't been abused by or caused by corporate greed. Let's leave out WW1 and WW2, as there is no solid proof for either side, and the political shitstorm during those times are not something I want to go into great detail about right now.

So you omit wars that you don't want to debate about? That makes sense.

But.

When we stepped into the Rwanda skirmish. Gulf War? It wasn't over oil. Don't start that one. Vietnam was indeed started to stop the spread of communism.

I'm not saying that we don't have agendas that we fulfill, but we don't have corporate lobbyists behind everything we do.
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#21
The US is connected to everything. It can never be barging into someone else's business because in the end, the outcomes will usually affect the US.
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#22
The poll doesn't really work since everyone would have a different opinion on what foreign affairs means. In terms of what it currently means, less. You don't have to go "spreading democracy" to other places. In terms of doing something about places like Sudan, in terms of providing food/water/such for less wealthy countries without deciding to do it by establishing essentially sweatshops or outsourcing, sure.
#23
Definitely less.

Read this:



it pretty much details all the US' involvement in other countries, very interesting and really shocking at times.
#24
Quote by Ur all $h1t
They should get the behaviour of their corporations under control asap.

They do hold vast amounts of power in our govts decision making thru lobbyists pursuing favorable laws/policies aimed at making certain industries more profitable. But there is a fine line between democratic capitalism and democratic socialism, to get the wealthy to invest in business and create new jobs it has to be profitable or theyll just keep it in bonds. Like it or not the 2% still dictates the fate of the 98% essentially unchanged since the days of monarchs. The French tried to do something about that with a guillotine at the Bastille but the world's banking families slowly regained thier power as centuries passed. The last man to recommend the Fed loan $ to the US govt interest free was JFK and you see what they did to him. At the end of the day greed is unrelenting and everybody eventually is guilty of it.
#25
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
So you omit wars that you don't want to debate about? That makes sense.

But.

When we stepped into the Rwanda skirmish. Gulf War? It wasn't over oil. Don't start that one. Vietnam was indeed started to stop the spread of communism.

I'm not saying that we don't have agendas that we fulfill, but we don't have corporate lobbyists behind everything we do.


I could go for hours about WW1 and WW2, it just doesn't seem relative given the time lapse.

1. The Rwanda Skirmish was an attempt to create a foothold in Africa. To do this, we set up churches to spread Christianity, and then abused the population in factories and sweatshops, producing clothes and shoes and other items for American corporations.

2. Essentially, yes it was. It was to prevent Iraq from controlling the oil in Kuwait that our oil companies loved oh-so-much because of the cheap tariff, and if Iraq was to control it, they would have had a monopoly on the oil in their area.

3. Vietnam was just another example of American intolerance, and the government's agenda to protect the corporations.
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#26
Quote by Kapps
The poll doesn't really work since everyone would have a different opinion on what foreign affairs means. In terms of what it currently means, less. You don't have to go "spreading democracy" to other places. In terms of doing something about places like Sudan, in terms of providing food/water/such for less wealthy countries without deciding to do it by establishing essentially sweatshops or outsourcing, sure.

Foreign affairs can really only mean affairs that are outside the realm of domestic affairs.

The question is supposed to be like that. Do you want to sacrifice the welfare of neutral states, but avoid damaging your global reputation, or conversely, help help help everyone you can, but also become the annoying parent at a ballgame trying to be a coach.
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#27
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
Foreign affairs can really only mean affairs that are outside the realm of domestic affairs.

The question is supposed to be like that. Do you want to sacrifice the welfare of neutral states, but avoid damaging your global reputation, or conversely, help help help everyone you can, but also become the annoying parent at a ballgame trying to be a coach.


The welfare of neutral states? Not once has a state that we became involved with come out better after our meddling. We don't help help help, we think up a cover, and then set up factories to turn the poor into our own personal 6 cent an hour workforce.
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#28
Quote by Wulphy
I could go for hours about WW1 and WW2, it just doesn't seem relative given the time lapse.

1. The Rwanda Skirmish was an attempt to create a foothold in Africa. To do this, we set up churches to spread Christianity, and then abused the population in factories and sweatshops, producing clothes and shoes and other items for American corporations.

2. Essentially, yes it was. It was to prevent Iraq from controlling the oil in Kuwait that our oil companies loved oh-so-much because of the cheap tariff, and if Iraq was to control it, they would have had a monopoly on the oil in their area.

3. Vietnam was just another example of American intolerance, and the government's agenda to protect the corporations.

If you're saying that, as a whole, the United States (being the government) did

1. Set up missionaries and made sweatshops

2. We did it because we where Kuwait's ally.

3. I suppose if you look at it like that, then you could say it was to help the capitialistic countries.

But as for 1 and 2, but mainly 1, what you said is reaching big time. You're saying that the government of the United States of America as a government installed missionaries and made sweatshops (which is contridictory because capitialistic governments don't involve themselves in government companies) then you're border lining those conspirators.
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#29
False dichotomy. It's not about having or not having involvement abroad; it's about picking the right affairs.

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#30
Quote by Wulphy
The welfare of neutral states? Not once has a state that we became involved with come out better after our meddling. We don't help help help, we think up a cover, and then set up factories to turn the poor into our own personal 6 cent an hour workforce.

I'd say Germany is doing alright.

And for the love of god, we're not "setting up factories and forcing people to work for 6 cents an hour". Think about what you're saying. You're saying that the US government is doing that. No there not.

Where is Dreadnaught?
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#31
yes the only country to use a nuke on anothe country (2 times), should really be involved in other peoples shit.
of course there are times when a group truly needs help/interference (genocide?) and if they can help stop another genocide attempt i can ignore all the $ stuff...

Mr.EDIT: THIS
Quote by SteveHouse
False dichotomy. It's not about having or not having involvement abroad; it's about picking the right affairs.

like i said if help is needed what ever else is on their agenda is no big deal to me. as long as someone is really helped.
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#32
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
If you're saying that, as a whole, the United States (being the government) did

1. Set up missionaries and made sweatshops

2. We did it because we where Kuwait's ally.

3. I suppose if you look at it like that, then you could say it was to help the capitialistic countries.

But as for 1 and 2, but mainly 1, what you said is reaching big time. You're saying that the government of the United States of America as a government installed missionaries and made sweatshops (which is contridictory because capitialistic governments don't involve themselves in government companies) then you're border lining those conspirators.


1. We allowed for missionaries to be installed, and set it up nice and perfect for them. Even allotted pieces of land for them. You are an absolute fool if you believe our government, being capitalist, does not aim it's political decisions to better the profit's of it's corporations. It's shown all through history.

2.

3. If communism spread past where it was, it would have began to engulf countries where corporations such as General Electric and Nike made their products, shutting down their factories and effectively ruining them. We couldn't let that happen.

Quote by Weeping_Demon7
I'd say Germany is doing alright.

And for the love of god, we're not "setting up factories and forcing people to work for 6 cents an hour". Think about what you're saying. You're saying that the US government is doing that. No there not.

Where is Dreadnaught?


I'm saying that the US government promotes and allows it to happen.
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#33
Quote by Mr.Cuddles
yes the only country to use a nuke on anothe country (2 times), should really be involved in other peoples shit.
of course there are times when a group truly needs help/interference (genocide?) and if they can help stop another genocide attempt i can ignore all the $ stuff...

There's another thread for that.

Long story short, it was the US's only option. Don't use that as a reason.
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#34
Quote by Wulphy
The welfare of neutral states? Not once has a state that we became involved with come out better after our meddling. We don't help help help, we think up a cover, and then set up factories to turn the poor into our own personal 6 cent an hour workforce.


Kosovo.
#35
Quote by Wulphy
1. We allowed for missionaries to be installed, and set it up nice and perfect for them. Even allotted pieces of land for them. You are an absolute fool if you believe our government, being capitalist, does not aim it's political decisions to better the profit's of it's corporations. It's shown all through history.

2.

3. If communism spread past where it was, it would have began to engulf countries where corporations such as General Electric and Nike made their products, shutting down their factories and effectively ruining them. We couldn't let that happen.

I've said this before.


I'm not denying that it's not part of their collective reasoning, but to say that it's the defining factor is just retarded.
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#36
we tried to leave the world alone, but they keep pulling me back in to quote Pacino. We were seperatists pre-WW1 until a u-boat sank a boat load of Americans, the Lusitania. We tired to stay out of Europes problems after the great depression and Hitler ran wild. After that democracy/communism became a chess match and smaller nations became the pieces, after WW2 our govt decided to try to head off world threats.

Wether we created BinLaden or not Al Quaedas here and cant be left alone unless we want more 9-11s, if we leave Pakistan/Afghanistan and dont pressure Iran, Iran will produce nuclear weapons and give them to one of the radical groups to detonate in Israel. Sucks but what can you do now? Leaving Al-Quaeda alone is no longer an option, the what-ifs dont matter and you cant turn back the clock.
#37
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
I've said this before.


I'm not denying that it's not part of their collective reasoning, but to say that it's the defining factor is just retarded.


Do you honestly believe our government intends to help other states when it decides to get involved?
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#38
Quote by ewguitar
we tried to leave the world alone, but they keep pulling me back in to quote Pacino. We were seperatists pre-WW1 until a u-boat sank a boat load of Americans, the Lusitania. We tired to stay out of Europes problems after the great depression and Hitler ran wild. After that democracy/communism became a chess match and smaller nations became the pieces, after WW2 our govt decided to try to head off world threats.

Wether we created BinLaden or not Al Quaedas here and cant be left alone unless we want more 9-11s, if we leave Pakistan/Afghanistan and dont pressure Iran, Iran will produce nuclear weapons and give them to one of the radical groups to detonate in Israel. Sucks but what can you do now? Leaving Al-Quaeda alone is no longer an option, the what-ifs dont matter and you cant turn back the clock.

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Quote by Wulphy
Do you honestly believe our government intends to help other states when it decides to get involved?

I'd say that when we get involved, the biggest reason is to do a good deed.
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#39
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
There's another thread for that.

Long story short, it was the US's only option. Don't use that as a reason.

killing innocent people who may not have even supported to war=/=way to win a war.
any group ignorant enough to commit mass murder of civilians, should get their own shit straight before worrying about someone else's.
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