#1
This is a general question here.. Are all these high end amps actually worth it? I'm on about the Diezels, the SLOs etc and then all these massively expensive vintage amps.

Look at this for instance, here's a bluesbreaker from back in the day on ebay. look at the price! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ORIGINAL-1966-MARSHALL-1962-BLUESBREAKER-COMBO-JTM45_W0QQitemZ160370396169QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL?hash=item2556d20c09

Seriously, how can you even have the word 'blues' involved with an amp that costs that much

So i want you guys opinions, are these vintage/high end amps really worth all the thousands or is it worth buying something cheaper and working with it to get the tone?
#2
Gear is only worth as much as the buyer thinks it's worth. Personally, I wouldn't buy most vintage amps with all of the great clones available for much less unless it's really special. And used boutique amps typically go much cheaper than new ones. You can get SLOs for as low as 2k used.
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#3
If I had that kind of money I'd just have a custom boutique amp built to my exact specifications.
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#4
I own a SLO, a Mojave Scorpion, & a 65 Soho, & each of them is worth every penny I paid for them. I got the SLO used in mint condition on ebay for $2475 (cost more because it's purple), & it is THE MOST BADASS high gain amp I've ever played, & I've played dozens ( I get to go to the NAMM show in Anaheim every January, & test dozens of amps each year). I wouldn't trade the SLO for anything. The Soho will do everything but high gain stuff better than just about anything else out there, so I use it for blues gigs, which is mostly what I'm playing lately. The Mojave is part of a re-amp rig I use only for playing old Van Halen covers, & sounds almost exactly like the first VH record.

All I can say about vintage amps is that you need to just find ones that are as close to original as possible. Old Marshall plexis are very inconsistent tone wise in my experience. Some sound far superior to others & would therefore justify the added expense, but others---not so much. I've heard some old Fender Bassmans & Bandmasters that sound incredible too. Personally, I prefer newer, more reliable amps that I can beat to death, & they keep on ticking. Just try & play a few higher end amps & form your own opinions. You'll see
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#5
i'm with riffhog, my Diezel IS my sound, everything else in my rig is icing on a VH4 cake.
#8
Well, i wouldn't buy one of those for that much. I would much rather a quality clone so i have several thousands of dollars to spare. Not that i'd ever have a chance to get one, thats why i play an HT-5.
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#9
If you have to ask then you shouldn't worry about it. Like mmolteratx said, gear is worth as much as someone will pay for it.
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#10
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If you have to ask then you shouldn't worry about it. Like mmolteratx said, gear is worth as much as someone will pay for it.


and i think that pretty much sums it up... take randall for example, some people would drop hundreds of dollars for what many would call some of the best solid state amps around. i wouldn't pay five cents for one, but who the **** cares? Dimebag didn't seem to have a problem with them.
#12
Are hi end amps overpriced?

Normally no, because the developers spend a lifetime 'gaining' their skills to be able to create these incredibly complex things.

However i should add in Europe many manufacturers overcharge eg Mesa Boogie.

Are vintage amps overpriced?

Sometimes. A lot of people buy vintage because they think it must be better. Often it is but the placebo effect happens a lot.

Is it worth buying a hi end amp?

Yes, if you are serious about your sound and your instrument. People spend thousands on too many guitars, which have little more than asthetic improvements regardless of what the manufacturers want you to believe. Im not saying a PRS with one piece brazillian rosewood neck isnt going to sound great, but for the price its not worth it and few can tell the difference. Guitars are about feel and how you interact with the instrument.

I dont have a problem playing an epiphone les paul, but i do have a problem playing a Spider or an MG.
Last edited by Sir-Shredalot at Nov 3, 2009,
#13
Quote by Sir-Shredalot
Yes, if you are serious about your sound and your instrument. People spend thousands on too many guitars, which have little more than asthetic improvements regardless of what the manufacturers want you to believe. Im not saying a PRS with one piece brazillian rosewood neck isnt going to sound great, but for the price its not worth it and few can tell the difference. Guitars are about feel and how you interact with the instrument.

Well said. I've always thought this... Which is why I am trying to make my MIM Strat as versatile as I can (HSS) and upgrade my amp, effects rig first. Eventually when I am happy with my gear I'll go out and grab a rediculously expensive guitar.

Until then, I love the feel of my strat, and the sound is not so bad that I notice it... At least not the single coils.
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#14
Quote by Sir-Shredalot

Yes, if you are serious about your sound and your instrument. People spend thousands on too many guitars, which have little more than asthetic improvements regardless of what the manufacturers want you to believe. Im not saying a PRS with one piece brazillian rosewood neck isnt going to sound great, but for the price its not worth it and few can tell the difference. Guitars are about feel and how you interact with the instrument.

I dont have a problem playing an epiphone les paul, but i do have a problem playing a Spider or an MG.


I've said this for years. Eddie Van Halen played those hodgepodge crap guitars for years. He just set them up the way he liked them, & obviously sounded great.

Esp when playing mid to higher gain stuff, I'd challenge anyone to tell the difference just by listening between a $300 guitar & a $3000 guitar. All my sound clips in my profile were done with a $199 Jackson guitar, but through some serious rigs!
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#15
easiest answer is, "it depends". If you can get the tone you want through cheap gear, there's not much point in spending big bucks. I should add, though, that by that I mean that you've tried the dearer stuff and think your cheaper gear does the tone you want just as good, not that you haven't tried the dearer stuff and think your cheaper amp must be just as good.

if you can't get the tone without expensive gear, then it's worth it. assuming you're not having to miss necessary living expenses payments to fund it.

there are also people making clones of lots of the vintage amps for pretty reasonable money, which is also worth considering if that's the type of tone you're after.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#17
Quote by Zoot Allures
Nah it was meant to be abit of a joke about 'bluesy' sounding expensive amps when the old blues players couldn't even afford strings or a guitar sometimes

I thought you were backstabbing blues
#18
I'm in agreeance that guitars make very little difference above a certain price point. Its just looks, or all out snobbery with guitars, not that I never fall prey to wanting said Brazilian Rosewood neck PRS. As a lot of folks here seem to have figured out a MIM strat with some decent pickups more than get the job done. Amps however are a different story. I'm a huge sucker for a class A single ended hand wired non master volume. They just produce a sound you can't get with anything else. You can almost feel the amp through your hands as weird as it may sound. The general rule around here is cheap guitar + nice amp> expensive guitar + cheap amp. And its true for a reason. Somebody should really sticky this rule all over the EG thread, because everyday I read multiple threads asking $1500 superstrat + insert crappy amp here equalz teh br00talz????! I say give me the Hello Kitty strat and a ENGL and I'll show you the br00talz.
Last edited by fretz86 at Nov 3, 2009,
#19
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#20
Quote by riffhog
I've said this for years. Eddie Van Halen played those hodgepodge crap guitars for years. He just set them up the way he liked them, & obviously sounded great.

Esp when playing mid to higher gain stuff, I'd challenge anyone to tell the difference just by listening between a $300 guitar & a $3000 guitar. All my sound clips in my profile were done with a $199 Jackson guitar, but through some serious rigs!



ha well it sounds killer.


what was the mystery guitar and amp combo? 65 amp soho with a squier strat?
#21
I just had this slight revelation when I had a buddy over for a jam: some people sound like crap no matter what amp through which they play.

...and yes, I generally think boutique prices are worth it (but not always coughPRSampscough).
#22
Quote by Sir-Shredalot
ha well it sounds killer.


what was the mystery guitar and amp combo? 65 amp soho with a squier strat?


Thanks, man.
The mystery rig clip was just to mess with my friends on the WTLT list .
It's my MIA Strat (stock SSS) through just a 1996 Fender Princeton 112 Plus SS amp.
The other guys in my blues band love the tone (I use that 112+ at all our practices, but gig with the Soho), but the Soho does it WAY better. I've been promising to put up clips of the Soho for months, but never have time.

As far as the TS's initial question-there are numerous boutique hand-wired amps out there that sound like crap IMO also, despite costing $1800-$2500. Just because an amp is considered boutique doesn't mean it sounds great, & even among the same amp company, there may be dogs in their model lineup. For example, the only 65 Amps products I truly love are the Soho & Stone Pony. Their other models just don't feel or sound nearly as good to me. Fuchs Audio is another one. A couple of their amps are awesome, but I can't quite get what I want out of them. The TS should play some high end amps & decide for himself if it's worth it or not. Or listen to 311, & run like his hair's on fire
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#23
Quote by colin617
I just had this slight revelation when I had a buddy over for a jam: some people sound like crap no matter what amp through which they play.

...and yes, I generally think boutique prices are worth it (but not always coughPRSampscough).


This hit me a while ago. A guitarist I used to play with had a CS Strat and a CS Les Paul run through a Fulltone OCD into an EP-1 into a modded Blues Jr. It sounded like complete crap when he played it, pretty good when I played it and just flat out incredible when this local guy we know played it.

EDIT: Huge +1 to riffhog. Lots of high end companies have their duds. I've played amps I didn't like by Matchless, Two Rock, Dr. Z, ENGL, Mesa, etc. The SoHo and London are the only 65 Amps I really like and Fuchs' Trainwreck clones are pretty bad IMO. The only companies I can really say that I like every one of their amps is Soldano and Bogner for the most part.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Nov 3, 2009,
#24
Quote by Zoot Allures
Seriously, how can you even have the word 'blues' involved with an amp that costs that much

That's actually a really, really interesting point.
#25
Vintage amplifiers cost a fortune because people are willing to pay outrageous prices for them; believing them to possess some unfathomable magic that does not exist in a new amplifier. Many people who buy them don't take into account all of the problems that often come with them: fried wiring, shot capacitors, worn transformers, etc.

The new high-end amplifiers cost a fortune mainly because of the R&D that went into designing and developing them; the quality of the components, and the fact that there are enough people out there who are willing to lay out a carload of cash for them to make it wothwhile for the companies to produce them. They certainly do sound great, but does a $4000.00 Diezel sound twice as good as a $2000.00 Marshall? That is entirely a matter of opinion. You pays your money and you makes your choice.

Then again, $45000.00 for a Dumble is sheer madness, no matter how good it sounds.
#26
Quote by FatalGear41

Then again, $45000.00 for a Dumble is sheer madness, no matter how good it sounds.


And that's the low end. I've seen em go for as high as $120,000 for a Dumbleland.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Nov 3, 2009,
#27
Quote by riffhog

As far as the TS's initial question-there are numerous boutique hand-wired amps out there that sound like crap IMO also, despite costing $1800-$2500. Just because an amp is considered boutique doesn't mean it sounds great, & even among the same amp company, there may be dogs in their model lineup.


yeah, definitely.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#28
Quote by mmolteratx
And that's the low end. I've seen em go for as high as $120,000 for a Dumbleland.


A good friend of mine has one of the first Dumble guitar amps. He bought on CL last year for $4500 (yep, four thousand five hundred) in really good condition from an old Filipino guy who was Dumble's neighbor years ago. The old guy begged Dumble to make his kid a guitar amp (I guess Dumble was making only PA amps at the time, or something like that), & Dumble agreed to do it after much prodding. The thing is in a large size Dumble PA housing & weighs a ton, but it's the real deal. I keep telling him to sell it at an auction house, & see if he can get $50,000-$75000 or more for it, but he'd rather hang on to it & see if it gets even more valuable, considering it's most likely one of Dumble's very first guitar amps, if not the very first one. He told me I can play it next time I go to his house. That ought to be cool .
I WILL get pics next time I go there & do a faux NAD !


PS-Hey, Dave
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#29
Quote by riffhog
A good friend of mine has one of the first Dumble guitar amps. He bought on CL last year for $4500 (yep, four thousand five hundred) in really good condition from an old Filipino guy who was Dumble's neighbor years ago. The old guy begged Dumble to make his kid a guitar amp (I guess Dumble was making only PA amps at the time, or something like that), & Dumble agreed to do it after much prodding. The thing is in a large size Dumble PA housing & weighs a ton, but it's the real deal. I keep telling him to sell it at an auction house, & see if he can get $50,000-$75000 or more for it, but he'd rather hang on to it & see if it gets even more valuable, considering it's most likely one of Dumble's very first guitar amps, if not the very first one. He told me I can play it next time I go to his house. That ought to be cool .
I WILL get pics next time I go there & do a faux NAD !


PS-Hey, Dave




I wouldn't be surprised if it's close to a Dumbleland in circuitry. I believe that was Dumble's first guitar amp. That things gotta be worth at the very least 75k. Expect alot of clean sustain out of it if it is indeed close to a Dumbleland.
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#30
Quote by riffhog
A good friend of mine has one of the first Dumble guitar amps. He bought on CL last year for $4500 (yep, four thousand five hundred) in really good condition from an old Filipino guy who was Dumble's neighbor years ago. The old guy begged Dumble to make his kid a guitar amp (I guess Dumble was making only PA amps at the time, or something like that), & Dumble agreed to do it after much prodding. The thing is in a large size Dumble PA housing & weighs a ton, but it's the real deal. I keep telling him to sell it at an auction house, & see if he can get $50,000-$75000 or more for it, but he'd rather hang on to it & see if it gets even more valuable, considering it's most likely one of Dumble's very first guitar amps, if not the very first one. He told me I can play it next time I go to his house. That ought to be cool .
I WILL get pics next time I go there & do a faux NAD !


PS-Hey, Dave


i can't read this thread anymore without a jumbo bottle of pepto for all the GAS it's giving me!
#31
Quote by riffhog
A good friend of mine has one of the first Dumble guitar amps. He bought on CL last year for $4500 (yep, four thousand five hundred) in really good condition from an old Filipino guy who was Dumble's neighbor years ago. The old guy begged Dumble to make his kid a guitar amp (I guess Dumble was making only PA amps at the time, or something like that), & Dumble agreed to do it after much prodding. The thing is in a large size Dumble PA housing & weighs a ton, but it's the real deal. I keep telling him to sell it at an auction house, & see if he can get $50,000-$75000 or more for it, but he'd rather hang on to it & see if it gets even more valuable, considering it's most likely one of Dumble's very first guitar amps, if not the very first one. He told me I can play it next time I go to his house. That ought to be cool .
I WILL get pics next time I go there & do a faux NAD !


PS-Hey, Dave




that's awesome news about the dumble, too
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#32
Quote by mmolteratx
Gear is only worth as much as the buyer thinks it's worth. Personally, I wouldn't buy most vintage amps with all of the great clones available for much less unless it's really special. And used boutique amps typically go much cheaper than new ones. You can get SLOs for as low as 2k used.
+1

If you're not willing to pay £7999 for a Marshall, it's not worth it. Besides, that amp is listed at a collectors price, it may not sound that good. I've never heard an amp that physically sounds like it should be priced that high.

Diezel, Soldano and Bogner are widely known as the "best" high-gain amp makers on the planet, and I've never met a single owner of these amps who is willing to say, "no, they're not worth the money I paid for it."

Quote by Sir-Shredalot
Are hi end amps overpriced?

Normally no, because the developers spend a lifetime 'gaining' their skills to be able to create these incredibly complex things.

However i should add in Europe many manufacturers overcharge eg Mesa Boogie.

Are vintage amps overpriced?

Sometimes. A lot of people buy vintage because they think it must be better. Often it is but the placebo effect happens a lot.

Is it worth buying a hi end amp?

Yes, if you are serious about your sound and your instrument. People spend thousands on too many guitars, which have little more than asthetic improvements regardless of what the manufacturers want you to believe. Im not saying a PRS with one piece brazillian rosewood neck isnt going to sound great, but for the price its not worth it and few can tell the difference. Guitars are about feel and how you interact with the instrument.

I dont have a problem playing an epiphone les paul, but i do have a problem playing a Spider or an MG.
+1

In the end of the day, as Dave said, if you can find your tone from a 4 watt Matamp, that's brilliant. Just because it's only £350 it doesn't mean it can't be perfect for you!
Last edited by AngryGoldfish at Nov 4, 2009,
#33
^
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
On the other side of the coin, some great tones can be coaxed from <$500 amps....


Usually from the blues guys....
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