#1
i trying to look for a scale to learn next.

i play metal and im looking for a lead scale

ive already learned the major minor and pentatonic

any suggestions for wut to learn next?
#6
Phrygian mode, Phrygian Dominant mode


Diminished scale/arpeggio (easy and fun)

half-whole and whole-half principles are also fun now and then

your usual minor and harmonic minor scales.

etc etc
Quote by Demonikk
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Except children.
#7
To extend from Natural Minor: Harmonic Minor.
To extend from Pentatonic: Blues.
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#8
I'm assuming you've only learned those scales as shapes in a few places around the neck. It would benefit you the most if you learned how the scales are constructed and the notes on the neck. Major, minor, and pentatonic scales will take you very far, and experimenting beyond them with accidentals will take you years to master.

EDIT: And don't listen to anyone saying anything about modes like Phrygian or Phrygian dominant. They don't know what modes are. If they did, they wouldn't be suggesting them.
Last edited by timeconsumer09 at Nov 3, 2009,
#9
Quote by mauisurfer888
i trying to look for a scale to learn next.

i play metal and im looking for a lead scale

ive already learned the major minor and pentatonic

any suggestions for wut to learn next?



How many songs/solos/riff..ect can you play with the scales that you already know?

I would suggest getting familiar with the most commonly used scales, and then spend some quality time making music with them before moving on to other scales...

Major
minor
Major pentatonic
minor pentatonic
Major Blues
minor blues
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 3, 2009,
#10
Quote by timeconsumer09


EDIT: And don't listen to anyone saying anything about modes like Phrygian or Phrygian dominant. They don't know what modes are. If they did, they wouldn't be suggesting them.



And what do you base that on, dipstick? modes and scales might have the same notes, but you have certain notes that define the mood, and that makes em vary immensly
Quote by Demonikk
'Practice amp' = amp you practice with? In my case, Peavey 6505+ and 4x12
I don't do things small


Except children.
Last edited by Slicer666 at Nov 3, 2009,
#11
Quote by Slicer666
And what do you base that on, dipstick? modes and scales might have the same notes, but you have certain notes that define the mood, and that makes em vary immensly


Because you don't just decide 'Hey, I'm going to play phrygian over this!' To play 'phrygian', you have to play over a phrygian progression. That's a modal progression. And the staggering majority of music today (metal or otherwise) is tonal. What most people mean when they say play phrygian dominant, is play a b2 and natural 3. You sound like one of those guys that would suggest playing E phrygian over a C major progression for a 'different flavor'.

Don't call me a dipstick.
#12
Quote by timeconsumer09
Because you don't just decide 'Hey, I'm going to play phrygian over this!' To play 'phrygian', you have to play over a phrygian progression. That's a modal progression. And the staggering majority of music today (metal or otherwise) is tonal. What most people mean when they say play phrygian dominant, is play a b2 and natural 3. You sound like one of those guys that would suggest playing E phrygian over a C major progression for a 'different flavor'.

Don't call me a dipstick.

who says he doesnt understand modal progressions? i understand them, so i can go, HEY lets play C mixolydian, and start off with a I bVII progression. hes giving him an idea of what to learn
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#13
Quote by Zinnie
who says he doesnt understand modal progressions? i understand them, so i can go, HEY lets play C mixolydian, and start off with a I bVII progression. hes giving him an idea of what to learn


If he (I assume by 'he', we're referring to TS) understood modal progressions, he wouldn't be asking what scales to learn.

Telling him to learn a phrygian scale will not help TS at all, except maybe to confuse him about modes later on.
#14
yea u sorta dont understand to much about that kinda stuff with chord progressions and modes.
i know how to play like progressions for a major or minor scale but dont get how to play a chord progression for modes

any sites you guys recommend to help learn it
#15
Quote by GuitarMunky
How many songs/solos/riff..ect can you play with the scales that you already know?

I would suggest getting familiar with the most commonly used scales, and then spend some quality time making music with them before moving on to other scales...

Major
minor
Major pentatonic
minor pentatonic
Major Blues
minor blues


yea ive played around alot with them already but im looking for a new sound sort of
#16
Quote by fretboard12
what do you mean by a new scale?

id assume your not talking mode's of a scale because well there already in the major and minor scales. and you know the pentatonics So there is harmonic minor,melodic minor

does metal music really use any scale's other than these?


yea i do mean a mode

Im not sure if metal music uses anymore than these, but i sometimes hear a different mode than major minor or pentatonics in their solos so i was sorta wondering wut modes those are
#17
Quote by timeconsumer09
I'm assuming you've only learned those scales as shapes in a few places around the neck. It would benefit you the most if you learned how the scales are constructed and the notes on the neck. Major, minor, and pentatonic scales will take you very far, and experimenting beyond them with accidentals will take you years to master.

EDIT: And don't listen to anyone saying anything about modes like Phrygian or Phrygian dominant. They don't know what modes are. If they did, they wouldn't be suggesting them.


^this, it is so important to understand how scales are constructed using interval's and the formula's once you know this you wont have any more scale issues
#18
Quote by Captain Capo
^this, it is so important to understand how scales are constructed using interval's and the formula's once you know this you wont have any more scale issues


so how do i learn it, i have no guitar teacher or anyone i know who can teach me it
#19
Quote by timeconsumer09
Because you don't just decide 'Hey, I'm going to play phrygian over this!' To play 'phrygian', you have to play over a phrygian progression. That's a modal progression. And the staggering majority of music today (metal or otherwise) is tonal. What most people mean when they say play phrygian dominant, is play a b2 and natural 3. You sound like one of those guys that would suggest playing E phrygian over a C major progression for a 'different flavor'.

Don't call me a dipstick.

well actually you are one. you dont HAVE to use a modal progression to play a mode. no one said it was playing modally. if you want to play a b2 and a natural 3, its just easier to think of the phrygian dominant. if you know what sound you are going for, and you know what a certain scale/mode sounds like, then its easier to say "hey im playing the dorian scale over this". in reality, no im not playing modally. i play a lot of blues based stuff and i often use mixolydian and dorian based licks. i know the progression isnt modal, but i think of the modes just to organize what i want to do. using the modal names is just an easy way to know what you want to do. its a way of organizing accidental notes into a way you can easily access them.
#20
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
well actually you are one. you dont HAVE to use a modal progression to play a mode. no one said it was playing modally. if you want to play a b2 and a natural 3, its just easier to think of the phrygian dominant. if you know what sound you are going for, and you know what a certain scale/mode sounds like, then its easier to say "hey im playing the dorian scale over this". in reality, no im not playing modally. i play a lot of blues based stuff and i often use mixolydian and dorian based licks. i know the progression isnt modal, but i think of the modes just to organize what i want to do. using the modal names is just an easy way to know what you want to do. its a way of organizing accidental notes into a way you can easily access them.


But you do have to be in a modal setting to play a mode. You can play a lick derived from the dorian scale that uses its staple 'natural 6' scale degree and call it dorian, but you're really just playing an accidental. You can play a lick that utilizes a b2 and a natural 3, but you're not playing phrygian dominant. You're playing accidentals. Learning how modes sound is a good thing, as you can come up with cool sounding licks/riffs that way, but it's infinitely more important to have a good foundation in the major and minor scales. Because if you have a solid foundation in the major and minor scales, you are going to be able to experiment for yourself and find out you really like the sound of a #5 over a certain chord, or a natural 6 over another.

The point is, you can learn 'mode shapes' and think you're playing modes when you're just playing with accidentals... or you can learn what you're actually playing via major and minor scale construction, which will pave the way for adding those different flavor tones in, and eventually even playing with modes.
#21
If you're asking this question, you're at a stage where there's still tons to learn with the major and minor scale. You can learn the pattern for others, but there'll be no real point, since you won't be able to use them well.
#22
Quote by isaac_bandits
If you're asking this question, you're at a stage where there's still tons to learn with the major and minor scale. You can learn the pattern for others, but there'll be no real point, since you won't be able to use them well.


This. What I'm trying to say in not so many words.
#23
Quote by fretboard12
anybody ever noticed when modes are involved a fight brakes out.


Because of the many misconceptions about modes and all the wrong information people give out about them. Many people think modes will magically unlock some sort of solo skills within them, when they usually either confuse people, or they aren't learned right. And the person ends up learning 7 patterns for a major scale.

I don't try to fight, I just don't like misinformation or misleading information being tossed around.
#24
If your harmony determines A to be the tonal centre and the harmony suggests A major yet the only kind of G your melody uses is a G♭ - what's wrong with saying you're playing A mixolydian over the A major harmonic progression?

There's a big difference between that and saying you can play E phrygian over a C major progression. But what if you play a C Lydian over a C major progression for a different flavour.

You could use an accidental - say you accent an F♯ when soloing over a C major progression. Modal thinking might cross your mind. You might think "Oh I'm adding a little of that Lydian flavour here." You wouldn't be wrong in thinking that. If it's just a passing note on the way to an accented P5 you might not think of it in the same way as really lending any Lydian flavour to your melody.

You could analyze some of these things in different ways and there isn't always a right or wrong when you start getting into that level of analysis as much as there is different interpretations of the same things.

-At least that's my opinion
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Nov 5, 2009,
#25
Quote by 20Tigers
If your harmony determines A to be the tonal centre and the only kind of G your melody uses is a G♭ - what's wrong with saying you're playing A mixolydian.

There's a big difference between that and saying you can play E phrygian over a C major progression. But what if you play a C Lydian over a C major progression for a different flavour.

You could use an accidental - say you accent an F♯ in a C major progression. Modal thinking might cross your mind. You might think "Oh I'm adding a little of that Lydian flavour here." You wouldn't be wrong in thinking that. If it's just a passing note on the way to an accented P5 you might not think of it in the same way as really lending any Lydian flavour to your melody.

You could analyze some of these things in different ways and there isn't always a right or wrong when you start getting into that level of analysis as much as there is different interpretations of the same things.


Yes, those notes you're using would give it that 'flavor', but in the end you're just using accidentals and using modal names to describe it.
#26
harmonic minor scale, which leads into the hungarian minor scale, good scales to shred with.
#28
Quote by mauisurfer888
alright well im so confused now

does anyone have any ideas on where to learn this stuff


Learn how to use the major and minor scale. Read articles on here (I'm told the crusades are good). Don't worry about other scales yet. If you want to learn some patterns just for shits and giggles, you can, but don't expect them to be very useful (if at all useful) in songs.