#1
There's no question here I'm just wanting to share some ideas and get some feedback or some discussion- whatever.

Alright so I've been having a few beers, playing my classical guitar and I went to some old favourites - Stairway to Heaven and Babe I'm Gonna Leave You. Now there are a couple passages in each of these songs that are just massive sounding. When I hear them - or play them - it just blows me away how wonderful they sound on the guitar.

Now it is common knowledge the power of the dominant - tonic relationship and that the subdominant - tonic is simply the inverse of this same relationship. Well it seems to me that two of my favourite passages in rock seem to pretty much function around a i -IV or i-iv progression (or regression as the case may be).

But just playing the open chords
Am (x02210) - D (xx0232)
or
Am (x02210) - Dm (xx0231) is kind of, well, uninspired and boring.

But in the hands of a genius we see just how awesome and interesting the sound can be...

In Stairway to Heaven I'm talking about this passage (which is repeated often)
|-3--3-3-3--3--0-3-|-2-----2-2-2-2-----|-3--3-3-3--3--0-7-|-x-5-x-3-x-5--|
|-1--1-1-1--1--1-3-|-3-----3-3-3-3-0-0-|-1--1-1-1--1--1-8-|-x-7-x-5-x-7--|
|-0--0-0-0--0--0-0-|-2--2--2-2-2-2-0-0-|-0--0-2-0--0--0-9-|-x-7-x-5-x-7--|
|-2--2-2-2--2--2---|----0--0-----------|-2--2-2-2--2--2(0)|--------------|
|-0--0-0-0--0--0---|-------------------|------------------|------------0-|
|------------------|-------------------|------------------|--------------|r


The chords are Am7 - D - Dsus4 - Am7 - Em - D - C - D. The D - Dsus4 is pretty obvious but it's the Em D C D that really gets me off. And this I view as an elaboration of the D chord. The Em and C act pretty much as a see-saw on either side of the fulcrum D chord. Ultimately it has a D feel to this part of the passage which makes it, in my interpretation, just an expression of i - IV (Am - D).

You might even look at the Em as a kind of substitute for the Dsus4 from earlier in the passage and the C chord is almost suggesting a kind of D7sus2 feel. You could test this theory for yourself by playing the passage as Am7 - Dsus4 - D - D7sus2 - D

And in Babe I'm Gonna Leave You this passage...
e|0--0-0--0---0---0-|0-0-0-0-0-0-0--|
B|1--1-1--1---8---6-|6-6-6-6-6-6-6-0|
G|2--2-2--2---9---7-|7-7-7-7-7-7-7-0| Repeat 4 times  
D|2--2-2--2---7---7-|7-7-7-7-7-7-7-0|
A|0--0-0--0---0---0-|0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0|
E|------------------|---------------|


The way he voices the Am-Am7-Dmadd9/A it just blows my mind at how great it sounds.

You might be tempted to call that Dmadd9/A an A6sus4 (A D E F) but such a label doesn't really stick. If you listen to the passage you can clearly hear the A root in the first part even when he moves to the Am7 voiced higher up the neck you can hear there is a chord change but it still sounds like a kind of A chord. However the root movement in that next change is undeniable the root note is now firmly a D and so the Chord should be labelled with a D root.

These two examples, I feel, are just two of many that show how clever Jimmy Page was at finding interesting ways to express and exploit what is essentially the same relatively simple root movement with two powerful yet quite different outcomes.

I'm sure the key is here somewhere as to how they conquered the planet...

EDIT: These tabs were copied and pasted from a the tab section here on UG cause I'm a lazy sod who couldn't be bothered tabbing them out in code when someone's already done it. They aren't perfect but they give an idea of the parts I was talking about.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Nov 7, 2009,
#2
I dunno if you've seen this and I know it's a repost but there's some good stuff to be had from Mr Goodall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTUXKWnHH-g
Actually called Mark!

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#5
I watched all of those when it was posted months and months ago. It is very very well done.
Si
#6
that is a very well thought out and presented block of knowledge. i'll be watching the other ones (melody, bass etc) at some point aswell.

also, jsepguitar , there are 5 parts.
#7
Quote by MapOfYourHead
that is a very well thought out and presented block of knowledge. i'll be watching the other ones (melody, bass etc) at some point aswell.

also, jsepguitar , there are 5 parts.


I thought there were just four - melody, harmony, rhythm & bass.
#9
I don't usually sit and camp YouTube for hours, but I watched all 4 parts of it before work today -- and it literally changed the way I look at music. Great series, highly recommended to anyone who loves music -- musician or otherwise.
#11
Quote by jsepguitar
I thought there were just four - melody, harmony, rhythm & bass.


my mistake, i though you were refering to the individual parts of the harmony video.
#12
Quote by freakstylez
I don't usually sit and camp YouTube for hours, but I watched all 4 parts of it before work today -- and it literally changed the way I look at music. Great series, highly recommended to anyone who loves music -- musician or otherwise.

The thing i liked about it is that it bridges that gap between pure theory knowledge and the music, he just puts things into context and all of a sudden it makes a whole lot more sense.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#13
Quote by isaac_bandits
I always thought that part in Stairway was a C - D, which would be a ♭III - IV.
I'm sure t's an Am7-D (i7-IV)

You could certainly get away with subbing in a C on common tone principle (the Am7 contains the C E G of a C major triad) but it would still function as, and the chord Jimmy Page plays, is an Am7.

I think on the studio track there's two guitars - an acoustic guitar playing an Am7 voiced (x02013) in the left channel while the second guitar is an electric guitar on the right channel playing Am7 (x02213). John Paul Jones pretty much covers an A - D change over the part in question when his bass comes in (not a C - D change). - I'm pretty sure anyway.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Nov 6, 2009,
#14
Quote by 20Tigers
I'm sure t's an Am7-D (i7-IV)

You could certainly get away with subbing in a C on common tone principle (the Am7 contains the C E G of a C major triad) but it would still function as, and the chord Jimmy Page plays, is an Am7.

I think on the studio track there's two guitars - an acoustic guitar playing an Am7 voiced (x02013) in the left channel while the second guitar is an electric guitar on the right channel playing Am7 (x02213). John Paul Jones pretty much covers an A - D change over the part in question when his bass comes in (not a C - D change). - I'm pretty sure anyway.


OK. In the tab you posted you had xx2013 for Am7, but that lacks an A...
#15
Ahhh I see. I didn't tab those - it was a copy and paste job. I didn't learn the songs from those tabs and didn't even check that they were 100% before copying and pasting I just looked for the right sections and clickety-clickety-click they were in my post :p

I edited the A bass note into the chord and put a note to explain
Si