Poll: In or out of the EU
Poll Options
View poll results: In or out of the EU
In
171 59%
Out
68 23%
Non-UK
51 18%
Voters: 290.
Page 1 of 6
#1
EDIT: Fucking duh. It's a hypothetical situation.

Shock horror! Gordon Brown has called a referendum on the European Union.

If the yes vote has it, the UK will begin the secession process from the EU, leading eventually, to full separation, including from any other pan-European associations.

If the no vote suceeds, the UK will remain a member of the EU, including the Lisbon Treaty's reforms.

There's no middle ground. It's Lisbon or loneliness.


*let's just hope UG is representative of the UK as a whole*

Non-UKers, go away. :P
Last edited by gabcd86 at Nov 7, 2009,
#2
The EU has the largest economy in the world - it would be stupid to leave it. The Government just needs to grow a pair and stand up to Brussels whenever a ridiculous bureaucratic meddler tries to fuck up what little they do get right.
#4
Leaving the EU is not a good idea.
Quote by XxLloydxX
How young would you consider no-pedo attempt
#5
I think we should stay in. Though to be honest I don't know much about what specifically this new treaty will change, just the general, I tried to listen to someone on the BBC explain it but they were just so boring I gave up trying.
#7
Leaving the EU is a good idea.

More for British people is what I say.

I'm backing Nick Griffin and the BNP on similar grounds.
#8
Face-fucking-palm.

Can we get a link or some kind of confirmation of this?
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#9
In
Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
Remember us - if at all - not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.
#10
^^ +1, I can't find anything mentioning it.
Quote by XxLloydxX
How young would you consider no-pedo attempt
#11
wow!! but i think really the british people still want the EU but not the Lisbon treaty so its hard to say whats best :/

Quote by BrashPersona
Leaving the EU is a good idea.

More for British people is what I say.

I'm backing Nick Griffin and the BNP on similar grounds.


seriously !?!? gotta save more for these "indigenous" british huh?? (yeah that 1% of us) unless some of that 1% is made up of gay people, because they arent allowed !!

the BNP !!! what a joke
Last edited by funny_page at Nov 7, 2009,
#12
I dont actually think, throughout this whole debate i have seen a single newspaper or news report explaining explicitly what the Lisbon treaty actually means for us, but it would have to be pretty radical to warrant leaving the EU
#13
Quote by BrashPersona
Leaving the EU is a good idea.

More for British people is what I say.

I'm backing Nick Griffin and the BNP on similar grounds.


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#14
Quote by Adamtbh
I dont actually think, throughout this whole debate i have seen a single newspaper or news report explaining explicitly what the Lisbon treaty actually means for us, but it would have to be pretty radical to warrant leaving the EU


I know there's something about 5 new areas it's going to revolutionize, but they have been very vague.

Well, Wiki says this:

Prominent changes included more qualified majority voting in the Council of Ministers, increased involvement of the European Parliament in the legislative process through extended codecision with the Council of Ministers, eliminating the pillar system and the creation of a President of the European Council with a term of two and a half years and a High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy to present a united position on EU policies. The Treaty of Lisbon will also make the Union's human rights charter, the Charter of Fundamental Rights, legally binding.


Which is still quite vague.
Last edited by aaciseric at Nov 7, 2009,
#16
"Tick here if you are a reactionary Middle England xenophobe in which case your vote will not be counted on account of you being too blinkered by mindless hate and fear of the unknown to even remotely comprehend the negative economic, cultural and social implications of leaving the EU particularly in the middle of a recession, you dick."

I'm in. The EU is the world's second largest superpower. We should be in their gang.
#18
Quote by Adamtbh
I dont actually think, throughout this whole debate i have seen a single newspaper or news report explaining explicitly what the Lisbon treaty actually means for us, but it would have to be pretty radical to warrant leaving the EU

My theory is that no-one in the entire world has ever actually read the Lisbon treaty, or ever will, including the people who wrote it.
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#19
Quote by Ur all $h1t
My theory is that no-one in the entire world has ever actually read the Lisbon treaty, or ever will, including the people who wrote it.

haha I agree with that.
I've not heard a single thing from it.

I voted out.
Millions of people have died to keep independence. Why should we sign that away without any facts?
Been in Japan since August, no fucking money left!
#20
Quote by captaincrunk
Because hegemony is a good thing, right?
I'm saying it would be foolhardy to distance ourselves from an economic giant. What's the alternative? America won't do shit for us. It works both ways - we need to have more British influence in Europe, not less. If we withdraw from the EU, we'll lose all of our privileges and influence.

I just can't believe people think that we don't need the European Union. The British Empire doesn't exist anymore.
#21
Quote by rigiddigits
"Tick here if you are a reactionary Middle England xenophobe in which case your vote will not be counted on account of you being too blinkered by mindless hate and fear of the unknown to even remotely comprehend the negative economic, cultural and social implications of leaving the EU particularly in the middle of a recession, you dick."


Oh fuck off.

The EU is a bunch of corporatist neo-liberals trying to fuck over north africa and privatise services, we should be out.
.
#23
It's not actually happening...

You think a UK government would actually consult us? :P

From what I understand about it:

The Lisbon Treaty

-Implements Qualified Majority Voting in more areas of the EU's decision-making, replacing unanimity, which would prevent countries holding the whole decision-making process up as happens a lot.
-Replaces the rotating European Council (one of the three decision-making bodies of the EU, composed of national ministers) presidency (it's currently led by a different European head of state every six months) with a fixed European Council President on a 2.5 year-term. Tony Blair is one of the main candidates for this post, which is terrifying. :P
- Creating a single foreign affairs post by merging the External Relations Commissioner with the CFSP High Representative.
-The EU will become a legal "person", allowing it to sign a treaty as the EU, instead of each separate "pillar" signing it, I suppose.
-The Charter of Fundamental Rights will be made legally binding
-The European Parliament will gain more co-decision rights, making the EU more democratic.
-Citizens' petitions to be considered by the Commission if signed by 1 million citizens.
- Combating climate change explicitly stated as an objective.
- An EU Public Prosecutor
- An External Action Service

Among others.

Yes, mostly copied from Wikipedia. :P
#24
gordon brown? isnt he the guy from batman?

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#25
Quote by rigiddigits
I'm saying it would be foolhardy to distance ourselves from an economic giant. What's the alternative? America won't do shit for us. It works both ways - we need to have more British influence in Europe, not less. If we withdraw from the EU, we'll lose all of our privileges and influence.

I just can't believe people think that we don't need the European Union. The British Empire doesn't exist anymore.

All I meant was that hegemony is only being encouraged by having economic blocs.
#26
Quote by gabcd86

-The EU will become a legal "person", allowing it to sign a treaty as the EU, instead of each separate "pillar" signing it, I suppose.



I think it's more the fact that it can then appear in court, in the same way that incorporated associations can appear in court as legal persons (ie you will be able to sue the EU).

Besides, the system in the UK means that no EU law is binding unless it's put into legislation by Parliament.
#27
Quote by rigiddigits
I'm saying it would be foolhardy to distance ourselves from an economic giant. What's the alternative? America won't do shit for us. It works both ways - we need to have more British influence in Europe, not less. If we withdraw from the EU, we'll lose all of our privileges and influence.

I just can't believe people think that we don't need the European Union. The British Empire doesn't exist anymore.


This. Without the EU, we would be a lonely little island, losing what little influence we still have.


And I would get deported from France. :P



EDIT:

Quote by webbtje
I think it's more the fact that it can then appear in court, in the same way that incorporated associations can appear in court as legal persons.

Besides, the system in the UK means that no EU law is binding unless it's put into legislation by Parliament.


Ah, I see. Cheers

But that's mostly because the UK is stubborn, no?
Last edited by gabcd86 at Nov 7, 2009,
#28
Out.

We have no identity as it is because people come through the EU (or worse, FROM the EU) to here and scrounge off the government.

I'd vote BNP if they weren't for kicking innocent black people out, but for kicking the scroungers out.
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#29
Quote by gabcd86



Ah, I see. Cheers

But that's mostly because the UK is stubborn, no?



Nah, it's the way the legal system works. We're dualist, which means that external law needs to be internally approved, whereas monist systems (eg France) will automatically incorporate external law, so people can instantly litigate on the basis of EU law, for example. It's just different approaches the courts in various countries have taken, I think, though I'd have to look into it because I wasn't really listening to that lecture.
#30
I don't believe I've ever heard more xenophobia than in discussions about the UK. It's quite funny, since they're always going on about how racist America is.
ningen ningen ningen ningen ningen
#32
Quote by rigiddigits
I'm saying it would be foolhardy to distance ourselves from an economic giant. What's the alternative? America won't do shit for us. It works both ways - we need to have more British influence in Europe, not less. If we withdraw from the EU, we'll lose all of our privileges and influence.

I just can't believe people think that we don't need the European Union. The British Empire doesn't exist anymore.

This. Especially the bolded stuff.

Without the EU, the UK would just be a floating joke. Brits who live and work abroad will be forced to get Visas or be told to piss off. Europeans coming to the UK will have to go through the same thing.

Of course, there are people who would argue this is an advantage, because then we could finally thicken up the indigenous "British blood". Whoop dee fucking doop.
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#33
Quote by Dirge Humani
I don't believe I've ever heard more xenophobia than in discussions about the UK. It's quite funny, since they're always going on about how racist America is.

America = Land of the free
UK = Land of the British
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#34
Quote by GaijinFoot
America = Land of the free

Quote by GaijinFoot
UK = Land of the British

Eh, we're almost proud to be the shittiest country in Europe
#35
Quote by druggietoad2k5
Out.

We have no identity as it is because people come through the EU (or worse, FROM the EU) to here and scrounge off the government.

I'd vote BNP if they weren't for kicking innocent black people out, but for kicking the scroungers out.


This is why you have no national identity.
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#36
Interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975

Yes 17,378,581 67.2
No 8,470,073 32.8

Almost close. :P
#37
sounds like these changes are making the EU a 'super country.' personally i think unifying such a cross-section of economies, cultures, views and policies is a bad idea.


Quote by druggietoad2k5
Out.

We have no identity as it is because people come through the EU (or worse, FROM the EU) to here and scrounge off the government.

I'd vote BNP if they weren't for kicking innocent black people out, but for kicking the scroungers out.


it's worth nothing that this problem is our own doing. Whilst most of the EU wisely implemented immigration caps; the UK, Ireland and Sweden(?) where the only three who didn't, allowing anyone and everyone from the 10 eastern countries who joined in 04 to come at will.
#38
Quote by Adamtbh
it's worth nothing that this problem is our own doing. Whilst most of the EU wisely implemented immigration caps; the UK, Ireland and Sweden(?) where the only three who didn't, allowing anyone and everyone from the 10 eastern countries who joined in 04 to come at will.

Which has upsides as well as downsides.
#40
Out. If we didn't get screwed over by pretty much every major decision the EU has made, it might be worthwhile staying in. As it is, the best option is to adopt a "friendly neighbour" policy towards the EU
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