Poll: In or out of the EU
Poll Options
View poll results: In or out of the EU
In
171 59%
Out
68 23%
Non-UK
51 18%
Voters: 290.
Page 2 of 6
#41
Quote by Adamtbh
sounds like these changes are making the EU a 'super country.' personally i think unifying such a cross-section of economies, cultures, views and policies is a bad idea.

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/faq/index_en.htm

It's not really trying to make a super country, it's just making the EU as a whole more powerful. There is no weakening of cultural or national identity as far as I understand.
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#42
Quote by Perfection 101
Out. If we didn't get screwed over by pretty much every major decision the EU has made, it might be worthwhile staying in. As it is, the best option is to adopt a "friendly neighbour" policy towards the EU


Such as? All I can think of was the CAP, and possibly some of the budgets, which is shared by the other rich countries.
#43
Quote by entity0009
http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/faq/index_en.htm

It's not really trying to make a super country, it's just making the EU as a whole more powerful. There is no weakening of cultural or national identity as far as I understand.

Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but I always thought that more power for an external body would imply the nations get weaker as a direct result

EDIT: ^ OK, maybe that was a slight exaggeration. But you can't really deny that occasions where being in the EU has directly benefitted the UK are pretty scarce
Quote by SlackerBabbath
This from a country who're trying to make up for being late for the last two world wars by being really early for the next one?


Quote by konfyouzd
i think this is my favorite post of the day

Quote by Benguitar2
You ****ing pwn.

Awesome, dude, just awesome.
Last edited by Perfection 101 at Nov 7, 2009,
#44
Quote by Perfection 101
Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but I always thought that more power for an external body would imply the nations get weaker as a direct result

EDIT: ^ OK, maybe that was a slight exaggeration. But you can't really deny that occasions where the EU has directly benefitted the UK are pretty scarce

Maybe not directly, but it is better to have a passive beneficial effect than an active negative effect if we leave the EU. OK, so we can kick out some of the scroungers. But around half these scroungers are British nationals or second generation immigrants anyway, which means they are perfectly entitled to stay here, scrounging. That won't fix much.
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#45
Anyone who hasn't lived in a detached house of some unheard of hinterland has seen how the monstrous EU has aided in the UK becoming an utter mess and embarassment. Also, is there a link? I haven't heard anything at all of this, just that Cameron has managed to anger most his voters by refusing the ref.
#47
I voted for the third option: shake it all about
Been in Japan since August, no fucking money left!
#48
Quote by gabcd86
There is no referendum. Hypothetical situation.

This is a forum. Discussion is a good thing.
#49
I was just answering the people who were demanding a source, not trying to stamp out voices of dissent.

*I'll do that later*
#50
Quote by Dirge Humani
I don't believe I've ever heard more xenophobia than in discussions about the UK. It's quite funny, since they're always going on about how racist America is.


Those are both ridiculous assumptions.
#51
Quote by BlueTele1983
This is why you have no national identity.


Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over £30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.
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Quote by supersac
pretend its a woman
i have no helpful advice

#52
Quote by druggietoad2k5
This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over £30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.


I wish 'national identity' would go find a quiet, secluded spot and fornicate itself with a large iron-rod.

And I have two objections to the bolded statement:

1) Why else would people move to another country?
2) That's an absurd assumption, back it up with statistics, or don't expect people to take you seriously.
#53
Quote by druggietoad2k5
Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.


There's no such thing as a British name. My name is Greek, and my brothers is biblical. Text-books aren't written by the government - it's just textbook creators trying to show a more realistic cross-section.

Quote by druggietoad2k5
Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work.


As someone above said, would people come to a country where they have to work harder for less?


Quote by druggietoad2k5
I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over £30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.


Wait, what? Weren't we just talking about immigration?
#54
Quote by druggietoad2k5
Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over £30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.

k.

Right, now, explain the benefits and reasons why we should care about National Identity.
#55
Quote by druggietoad2k5
Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over £30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.

Sounds like you and I are singing from the same hymnsheet. I'm no racist and I'll all for multiculturalism in Britain (many of my good friends are black, islamic, whatever), but would I be right in saying that you, like I, get offended when you see coverage on the news of Islamic protests trying to force Shia law on Britain? When they actively show support for the Taliban and Al Qaeda and so on, and NOT seeing them have 7 shades of crap beaten out of them? Personally, my blood boils whenever i don't see them getting bludgeoned by the police. In other countries, whatever, that's your problem, but Britain is NOT a republic, we HAVE a royal family, and we are acknowledged as a CHRISTIAN country. Personally, i'm not devout, but i would say that i am a christian, but i know that i'm in no position to force people to believe what i believe to be right with regards to religion.
Quote by Rocker007
Blackrat has won this thread. That is an awsome post.


This was posted right after I posted said post in a completely different thread... Whups.


"There are 3 types of people in this world... Those who can count, and those who can't."
#56
Quote by Black Rat 1214
Sounds like you and I are singing from the same hymnsheet. I'm no racist and I'll all for multiculturalism in Britain (many of my good friends are black, islamic, whatever), but would I be right in saying that you, like I, get offended when you see coverage on the news of Islamic protests trying to force Shia law on Britain? When they actively show support for the Taliban and Al Qaeda and so on, and NOT seeing them have 7 shades of crap beaten out of them? Personally, my blood boils whenever i don't see them getting bludgeoned by the police. In other countries, whatever, that's your problem, but Britain is NOT a republic, we HAVE a royal family, and we are acknowledged as a CHRISTIAN country. Personally, i'm not devout, but i would say that i am a christian, but i know that i'm in no position to force people to believe what i believe to be right with regards to religion.


Few points:

1) We're a secularist country.
2) Paragraphs are your friend.
3) 'Shariah' not 'shia' and what the BNP wants to lead us into is just as bad as shariah law. Why aren't you annoyed with them?
4) Since when was it ok to use voilence on crowds spreading opinions?

Actually maybe '2' was unneccessary. It looked a lot longer when I first looked at it.
#57
Quote by Black Rat 1214
Sounds like you and I are singing from the same hymnsheet. I'm no racist and I'll all for multiculturalism in Britain (many of my good friends are black, islamic, whatever), but would I be right in saying that you, like I, get offended when you see coverage on the news of Islamic protests trying to force Shia law on Britain? When they actively show support for the Taliban and Al Qaeda and so on, and NOT seeing them have 7 shades of crap beaten out of them? Personally, my blood boils whenever i don't see them getting bludgeoned by the police. In other countries, whatever, that's your problem, but Britain is NOT a republic, we HAVE a royal family, and we are acknowledged as a CHRISTIAN country. Personally, i'm not devout, but i would say that i am a christian, but i know that i'm in no position to force people to believe what i believe to be right with regards to religion.


66% of british people have no particular affiliation with any church or organised religion. We are a firmly secular country. You're right that the people promoting Sharia law are abhorrent but you have to understand that they're in a minority and aren't really any better than christians who base their politics off of their religous beliefs. Also a lot of groups like to overstate the threat to further some kind of broadly anti-muslim agenda as well (Like the BNP).

And people being allowed to not have the crap beaten out of them for their beliefs is called freedom of speech. You probably wouldn't like to have someone kick the crap out of you in a middle eastern country because you supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (Assuming you do, if not just substitute something similar) would you?
.
Last edited by Nietsche at Nov 7, 2009,
#58
Stay in the EU, the Lisbon treaty may be undemocratic but being in the EU offers more trade and work


Quote by Spoonman69
Rap is music,far better than metal for example. id much rather hear about hoes and anal sex than dragons and supressed homosexuality.
#59
Quote by aaciseric
Few points:

1) We're a secularist country.
2) Paragraphs are your friend.
3) 'Shariah' not 'shia' and what the BNP wants to lead us into is just as bad as shariah law. Why aren't you annoyed with them?
4) Since when was it ok to use voilence on crowds spreading opinions?

Actually maybe '2' was unneccessary. It looked a lot longer when I first looked at it.

1) Although I'd prefer if we were secular, the state religion is Christianity.

Anyway why are people claiming not holding influence over the world is a bad thing? Norway, outside of the EU, has one of the best standards of living in the world and it is outside the EU, and holds tiny power in the world.

What is actully wrong with states which have isolationist foreign policies?
#60
Quote by Bestykid
What is actully wrong with states which have isolationist foreign policies?


They aren't imperialist fighting machines with an unquenchable penchant for blood which is necessary to advance the military-industrial complex.
.
#61
Quote by Bestykid
1) Although I'd prefer if we were secular, the state religion is Christianity.


The state religion is NOT christianity. Indeed, the only non-secular part is to do with the opening of parliament, and that is PURELY traditional.

Quote by Bestykid
Anyway why are people claiming not holding influence over the world is a bad thing?


Because if we hold influence then we get better deals. Duh.

Quote by Bestykid
Norway, outside of the EU, has one of the best standards of living in the world and it is outside the EU, and holds tiny power in the world.


Norway holds power because they found oil reserves in the 50s. The state poured the money into socialism and now the standard of living is relatively good. Norway holds relatively little power because the politicians are clean, and the whole system treats personal freedom above corporate interest. They're not power hungry, they're just sensible

Quote by Bestykid
What is actully wrong with states which have isolationist foreign policies?


They suffer in the long run because they don't invest in trade.
#62
Few points:

1) We're a secularist country.
2) Paragraphs are your friend.
3) 'Shariah' not 'shia' and what the BNP wants to lead us into is just as bad as shariah law. Why aren't you annoyed with them?
4) Since when was it ok to use voilence on crowds spreading opinions?

Actually maybe '2' was unneccessary. It looked a lot longer when I first looked at it.

Ok, in response to your points (this being a forum, not arguing or flaming or whatever, simply expressing my opinion (I'll move onto this point in a second))
1). Considering that the head of our state is a Christian, personally, i believe that it stands to reason that our country as a whole is based upon christian beliefs. As 'proof' if you will, just watching the remembrance service tonight, and the service was taken by members of the christian faith, and all prayers, hymns and so on and so forth were taken with regards to christianity.

2). I see your point, i was just getting my point across as quickly as possible. Normally i'm a right grammar Nazi...

3). I couldn't remember quite exactly how it was spelled or pronounced, and i meant no disrespect to anybody about it, but I'd like to make it perfectly clear that i only believe in 1 or 2 of the policies put forward by the BNP, namely the removal of scroungers and so on. If people are working or actively looking for work and really want to stay here and help the economy or any other part of what i perceive to be the british society, then they are welcome and i would not want them to leave under any circumstances. I am most certainly NOT in support of the majority of BNP policies, and therefore, do not support the BNP. (from your post, it seemed to me as though you believed i support them)

4). I'm not saying its OK to use violence on people expressing their opinions, that would in essence boil down to facism and nazism, which i am politically against having studied the topic for 4 years at minimum. I'm saying that while we have servicemen getting killed or injured in the middle east, and yet we have people preaching what our servicemen are fighting as a basis of the mandate (or whatever you call it) of the taliban, it just feels incredibly disrespectful to me, our servicemen and the families of those who have been either killed or injured in conflict with the taliban or other militant groups.


66% of british people have no particular affiliation with any church or organised religion. We are a firmly secular country. You're right that the people promoting Sharia law are abhorrent but you have to understand that they're in a minority and aren't really any better than christians who base their politics off of their religous beliefs. Also a lot of groups like to overstate the threat to further some kind of broadly anti-muslim agenda as well (Like the BNP).

And people being allowed to not have the crap beaten out of them for their beliefs is called freedom of speech. You probably wouldn't like to have someone kick the crap out of you in a middle eastern country because you supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (Assuming you do, if not just substitute something similar) would you?

As i mentioned before, i'm not a religious person, as in i don't go to church or such unless its for specific occasions such as a christening, marriage, funeral or such, so i would say that i am in the 66%. I'd also like to say that i agree with your point that politicians that base their policies in religion are no better, and i don't want to insult your intelligence, but as i've mentioned above, i have no affiliation with the BNP apart from the points mentioned above.

I'll admit that what i put was a little on the radical side, but i said what i said and i do not believe that it should be allowed for people to spread this in a country as a unit is fighting agaisnt such a law. Again, personally, i believe that freedom of speech should be given everywhere, make no bones about it, but it should be respected. Going onto your point of having the shit beaten out of me, i personally think that i would have the respect to the people of the country where i was not to spread my beliefs if they were not concurrent with that of the majority of the country.

With regards to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, i do not believe that we should have gone in the first place, however, now we are there and have been for some time, i think that we should commit ourselves until the end. It's not right to start something like this and then just leave the people of afghanistan to pick up the pieces by themselves. We should stay until our objective has been achieved. My first posting when i graduate from IOT is Afghanistan and volunteered because i want to do my bit to help these people re-build their country from what i see to be an oppresive and frankly horrible regime, and that i want to instill their right to freedom of speech, which should be used within context, not just for the sake of having it.

I must say, this is quite possibly the best debate i've ever had in the pit. I dont mean to start a fight, i'm merely discussing a point that has been made. If i'm wrong, i'll admit i'm wrong. Until then, i stand by whatever i have said thus far.
Quote by Rocker007
Blackrat has won this thread. That is an awsome post.


This was posted right after I posted said post in a completely different thread... Whups.


"There are 3 types of people in this world... Those who can count, and those who can't."
#63
Quote by Black Rat 1214
Ok, in response to your points (this being a forum, not arguing or flaming or whatever, simply expressing my opinion (I'll move onto this point in a second))
1). Considering that the head of our state is a Christian, personally, i believe that it stands to reason that our country as a whole is based upon christian beliefs. As 'proof' if you will, just watching the remembrance service tonight, and the service was taken by members of the christian faith, and all prayers, hymns and so on and so forth were taken with regards to christianity.

3). I couldn't remember quite exactly how it was spelled or pronounced, and i meant no disrespect to anybody about it, but I'd like to make it perfectly clear that i only believe in 1 or 2 of the policies put forward by the BNP, namely the removal of scroungers and so on. If people are working or actively looking for work and really want to stay here and help the economy or any other part of what i perceive to be the british society, then they are welcome and i would not want them to leave under any circumstances. I am most certainly NOT in support of the majority of BNP policies, and therefore, do not support the BNP. (from your post, it seemed to me as though you believed i support them)

4). I'm not saying its OK to use violence on people expressing their opinions, that would in essence boil down to facism and nazism, which i am politically against having studied the topic for 4 years at minimum. I'm saying that while we have servicemen getting killed or injured in the middle east, and yet we have people preaching what our servicemen are fighting as a basis of the mandate (or whatever you call it) of the taliban, it just feels incredibly disrespectful to me, our servicemen and the families of those who have been either killed or injured in conflict with the taliban or other militant groups.

I must say, this is quite possibly the best debate i've ever had in the pit. I dont mean to start a fight, i'm merely discussing a point that has been made. If i'm wrong, i'll admit i'm wrong. Until then, i stand by whatever i have said thus far.


1) By 'head of state' do you mean Brown or that old lady? And I don't really think that allows us to be qualified as a Christian state. We have a clear Christian history, but we have freedom of religion and a majority of people (I think) who don't identify as part of a relgion. But it's a point of semantics and not worth wasting too much time on.

3) I wasn't trying to insinuate that you're a bnp supporter. I meant the question in a very general way, because a fair number of people who complain about sharia law seem to believe we should use ways of stopping it being put in place that would be worse than Sharia law itself. Though you've presented yourself to be above that.

4) I get your point, but personally I don't find it that disrespectful. I mean, the taliban didn't really do anything to warrant being attacked, they were terrible people, but us bombing them just makes people who may have already agreed them more hateful towards us. So it's possible that our servicemen dying is helping to feed people alligning against the imperialist western countries. Realistically the way to deal with these kind of people is to reach out to them in a rational way and teach that it isn't 'Britain Vs Islam'. To me that's the ultimate goal, not chastising someone for having a radical opinion (not that i'm implying you do, i'm talking in a general sense here.)

And ditto on the last statement I quoted.
#64
The state religion isn't defined by the religion of the head of state. Are you retarded?
#65
Quote by aaciseric
1) By 'head of state' do you mean Brown or that old lady? And I don't really think that allows us to be qualified as a Christian state. We have a clear Christian history, but we have freedom of religion and a majority of people (I think) who don't identify as part of a relgion. But it's a point of semantics and not worth wasting too much time on.

3) I wasn't trying to insinuate that you're a bnp supporter. I meant the question in a very general way, because a fair number of people who complain about sharia law seem to believe we should use ways of stopping it being put in place that would be worse than Sharia law itself. Though you've presented yourself to be above that.

4) I get your point, but personally I don't find it that disrespectful. I mean, the taliban didn't really do anything to warrant being attacked, they were terrible people, but us bombing them just makes people who may have already agreed them more hateful towards us. So it's possible that our servicemen dying is helping to feed people alligning against the imperialist western countries. Realistically the way to deal with these kind of people is to reach out to them in a rational way and teach that it isn't 'Britain Vs Islam'. To me that's the ultimate goal, not chastising someone for having a radical opinion (not that i'm implying you do, i'm talking in a general sense here.)

And ditto on the last statement I quoted.

I must say i'm impressed by your points! Extremely valid!
1. Yeah, i mean the old lady! I may be wrong, but i think that she's officially recognised as the head of state as she has the power to dissolve parliament at any time, and each year, the parliament must be invited in by the queen. Gordon Brown is a cumulative figure of parliament. But yeah, i can't really be bothered with semantics.

3. I'd have to say i agree with this one. I had a load of good points on this one but my window crashed and i lost all of them. bad times.

4. I would agree that to us until 7/7, there was no warrant to attack the taliban. However, the Americans will see differently, as it has been proven that the taliban were actively funding terrorism and terrorist organisations that had attacked their country. However, i don't think we should have gone along with them. I think that was just Tony Blair saying 'Me too!' to Bush. Still, it happened, and while we're there, we ought to stay. But yeah, it's definately not an issue of one vs the other, and i think that those with whom we are in correspondance with there are aware of that and acknowledge, and largely appreciate our mission in afghanistan.

And stormx? Its quite evident you've not read any of my posts. So i'll just put this to your mind. I'm not a retard, you muppet.

I did have a response to your post, but to be honest, i can't be bothered wasting my time.
Quote by Rocker007
Blackrat has won this thread. That is an awsome post.


This was posted right after I posted said post in a completely different thread... Whups.


"There are 3 types of people in this world... Those who can count, and those who can't."
Last edited by Black Rat 1214 at Nov 7, 2009,
#66
I refuse to vote in your ridiculous all or nothing poll.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#67
Quote by Black Rat 1214
I must say i'm impressed by your points! Extremely valid!
1. Yeah, i mean the old lady! I may be wrong, but i think that she's officially recognised as the head of state as she has the power to dissolve parliament at any time, and each year, the parliament must be invited in by the queen. Gordon Brown is a cumulative figure of parliament. But yeah, i can't really be bothered with semantics.



Shame the no monarch has refused royal assent since the early 18th century and that parliament is dissolved when the PM requests it, then.


I wish people would forget this whole 'the queen is still powerful' rubbish.


Also, top tip: referendums have no legal standing in the UK, so a government could just ignore the outcome anyway.
Last edited by webbtje at Nov 8, 2009,
#68
personally, I think we should leave the EU, and trade more with the commonwealth, also I wouldn't have though that leaving the EU would stop us trading with EU members
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.
#69
Quote by webbtje



Also, top tip: referendums have no legal standing in the UK, so a government could just ignore the outcome anyway.

No government would ever ignore the outcome, it would be suicide for the party
#70
I want us to leave the EU because it costs us millions of pounds a day which we don't have and most of our laws are made by people not even from this country.

If we wanted our country to be ruled by a bunch of Europeans then you know what we should've done in 1939.

There is still a free trade organisation which non-EU countries are members of, such as Switzerland and Iceland I believe.


Quote by webbtje


Also, top tip: referendums have no legal standing in the UK, so a government could just ignore the outcome anyway.


Depends if the referendum is held before or after the legislation is passed. If it's held afterwards then the government has to act on what the people say, which is why if there ever is a referendum it wil be held before the legislation is passed because they can still choose what they want to do with it.
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Quote by goest
I'm going to take this opportunity to initiate my campaign to replace the phrase "Taking a shit" with "Busting a grumpy."
Last edited by SlipknotRule93 at Nov 8, 2009,
#71
we need to get the f*ck out of the EU!!!!!
this is one thing i agree with nick griffin about, he just takes it too far with his racist mannerisms

#72
Quote by metal_al73
we need to get the f*ck out of the EU!!!!!
this is one thing i agree with nick griffin about, he just takes it too far with his racist mannerisms



They're not 'mannerisms', he's simply a racist. It's not a little addition to his platform that's he's 'taking to far', that's the core of his beliefs. He's a racist.
On vacation from modding = don't pm me with your pish
#73
I want to say out, but that is simply because we do not use the Euro.

I really haven't got a clue as to what the EU does for us, or what we do for it. I'll have to read up on it. But I think that it would be better to be a part of something than alone in the big blue sea.

(I'll be reading everyone's posts to fill in the blanks)

EDIT2: In fact. I should Re-read the ****ing OP... jesus, today is not a good day for me!

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Last edited by osXtiger at Nov 8, 2009,
#74
I'm not from UK.
But that's ridiculous. The UK depends a lot on the EU in general; and on it's economy, it's traid (import/export) and etc. Leaving it would be detrimental and would probably start a zombie apocalypse.
#75
Quote by SlipknotRule93
I want us to leave the EU because it costs us millions of pounds a day which we don't have and most of our laws are made by people not even from this country.


Lolno. Let's look at it closely shall we: every bit of primary and secondary legislation and every bit of case law pre-joining the EU? Every bit of primary and secondary legislation and case law made in the UK and concerning in the UK, which by the way counts for the vast majority of what we call 'law'?


Quote by SlipknotRule93
Depends if the referendum is held before or after the legislation is passed. If it's held afterwards then the government has to act on what the people say, which is why if there ever is a referendum it wil be held before the legislation is passed because they can still choose what they want to do with it.


To state the obvious: the government has a habit of completely ignoring what the majority of the country actually wants (see the status of drugs). Parliamentary sovereignty dictates that, effectively, it can do whatever it fancies, and that includes completely ignoring the outcome of a referendum, should it wish to.
Last edited by webbtje at Nov 8, 2009,
#76
Quote by Black Rat 1214
As i mentioned before, i'm not a religious person, as in i don't go to church or such unless its for specific occasions such as a christening, marriage, funeral or such, so i would say that i am in the 66%. I'd also like to say that i agree with your point that politicians that base their policies in religion are no better, and i don't want to insult your intelligence, but as i've mentioned above, i have no affiliation with the BNP apart from the points mentioned above.

I'll admit that what i put was a little on the radical side, but i said what i said and i do not believe that it should be allowed for people to spread this in a country as a unit is fighting agaisnt such a law. Again, personally, i believe that freedom of speech should be given everywhere, make no bones about it, but it should be respected. Going onto your point of having the shit beaten out of me, i personally think that i would have the respect to the people of the country where i was not to spread my beliefs if they were not concurrent with that of the majority of the country.


Freedom of speech is freedom of speech is......freedom of speech. It means the right to say what you want when you want and where you want without fear of reprisal. Now I understand their are concerns about cultural sensitivity and whatnot but I don't think it's enough to deny people freedom of speech. I personally think that it is not only a right but a duty in fact that people should voice beliefs that dissent against majority opinion. Let's take an extreme example.

Say it's the 1800's again and slavery is rife, moreover the large majority of people are still in favour of it. I think I would be justified in speaking out against slavery even if it was the majority opinion and I hope you'd agree with me. Again this is an extreme example yes but it serves well to demonstrate the principle.

With regards to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, i do not believe that we should have gone in the first place, however, now we are there and have been for some time, i think that we should commit ourselves until the end. It's not right to start something like this and then just leave the people of afghanistan to pick up the pieces by themselves. We should stay until our objective has been achieved. My first posting when i graduate from IOT is Afghanistan and volunteered because i want to do my bit to help these people re-build their country from what i see to be an oppresive and frankly horrible regime, and that i want to instill their right to freedom of speech, which should be used within context, not just for the sake of having it.


Well what 'context' would justify freedom of speech? I mean I don't think cultural concerns are really enough to justify preventing it. If something is abhorrent you should speak up and be allowed to speak up.

As for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq I think that commiting ourselves to the end is impossible. The longer we stay, the more the resentment grows, the more extremism takes hold and the less chance they have of rebuilding.
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#77
I think if it benefits us but we still get to keep our identity, then i'm in, if we switch to the Euro and just start slowly becoming turned into somewhere like France, then thats difference, and i'm not saying there is anything wrong with France as i have never been there, but this is England (or United Kingdom).

I think British people shouldn't be afraid of their nationality, sure, there is some Irish heritage in me, but i'm not gonna be one of these idiots who claims to be Irish as i have lived in England my whole life, i am English and proud to be, and people shouldn't be afraid of offending people when they say that because its completely harmless to love ones country, then again, personally i love my country but don't particularly care for the people running it.
WHOMP

Think of that next time you are not allowed to laugh.
#78
Except it's not Brown's (Labours) idea, it's the Conservatives idea. And it would take years.

Thread hijack: vote Lib Dems, then us potential univeristy students can have a blast.