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#1
also makes it less enjoyable for an audience?

i played a blues jam tonight, and since i, on principle, refuse to limit myself to pentatonic, kept blues licks to a minimum. mostly played bebop type licks over the changes, arpeggios and octaves and the like.

got almost no applause after any solos, whereas the audience went wild over the other guy, who was mostly just playing stevie ray vaughn-type licks.

afterwards, the only comments i got were from best guitarist who was there that night. he came over, and congratulated me, saying how he saw what i was doing and that he wants to learn more arpeggios. other than that i was largely ignored.

im almost considering reverting back to just typical blues licks for when i perform, because i dont think anybody likes my current style of playing. anybody else had a similar problem?
#2
**** the audience, do what you want. Guitar is guitar.
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#3
Quote by larrytheguitar
**** the audience, do what you want. Guitar is guitar.



Shut up. The audience is what performing is all about.
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#4
I noticed crowds at jam nights tend to totally eat at that Pentatonic shizz. Sadly, it happens to be pretty much the bread and butter of my soloing. I don't feel great about my solos, but I usually get congratulated for them. I always thought that was kinda funny.
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#5
Quote by StewieSwan
Shut up. The audience is what performing is all about.



so you should play music you hate so you are loved????
#7
well i'm all for doing what you want
but if you wanna be appreciated you kinda have to gauge the audience and cater your playing to what they like

you wouldn't play cannibal corpse in an old age home
(well maybe you would i don't know)
#8
Quote by yoduh4077
. Sadly, it happens to be pretty much the bread and butter of my soloing.

i dont know what this means...
#9
I think musicians know music far more than the audience (unless there are musicians in the audience but we assume for the sake of argument, that there aren't any). Sweep or rake in front of an audience and they will be only partially impressed. However, play chords and strum near your fretting hand and the audience will probably be more impressed. Play a simple three note run over and over on one string and the audience will be slightly impressed but if you just move your left hand OVER the neck instead of under, they'll applaud.

Audiences don't know much about music or technique or anything so don't expect them to respond wonderfully to originality, technicality or any such thing. They do respond excellently to catchy stuff. So yeah, its up to you what you do, stay unappreciated or sell out.

My advice: Play your own music the way you want to. It's more satisfying and true to yourself... Unless you began to play because you wanted the audience to cheer you on, in that case... JONAS BROTHER COVER BAND! :P

Quote by cerpintaxt45
i dont know what this means...




More seriously, he means that those are the foundations of his soloing style.
Last edited by Limaj_daas at Nov 8, 2009,
#10
Quote by Tedis1111
so you should play music you hate so you are loved????


There's a difference between playing for people you have nothing in common with for love, and playing for people who like the same things you do and trying your utmost to make them happy. A musician is a performer, out first and foremost job is to entertain others, not ourselves, but we all enjoy this, which is why we do it.

As for the TS, it's simple really. People went in expecting blues. if you intentionally avoid being bluesy then nobody will like it. Personally I would've applauded, to me the blues isn't about certain scales or tones, it's about pouring your heart into every note like it's your last, and that's why I feel the blues will never die, because no matter what it is they're playing, there will always be someone pouring that emotion in. Most crowdgoers though are different. Most of them will be expecting you to sound like a certain type of music.

Also, I'll just say this now; avoiding using any techniques "on principle" is stupid. They exist for a reason, not playing them because you don't like the way the notes sound together is one thing, but "on principal" is stupid, biased and limiting your potential. Pentatonics are easy, yes, but they're used in practically every genre, metal, rock, pop, punk, ska, reggae, funk, blues, jazz, and many others. Whether or not they're easy, the various pentatonic scales are a huge tonal palette, especially nowadays, and robbing yourself of that palette is like cutting off your own leg.
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#11
Its cool that you play what you want to, i admire that, but you were playing for that audience, not for yourself. Its no fair to the audience that you go up and play something that you want and they dont. If ur playing in front of people let them hear what they want to hear or just deal with being the bore of the night. They dont know what apreggios or octaves are and dont care, they just want to hear songs they like and are used to. it doesnt matter if people like ur style of playing or not, play what you want... but accept the fact that others may not want to hear it.
#12
Quote by necrosis1193


Also, I'll just say this now; avoiding using any techniques "on principle" is stupid. They exist for a reason, not playing them because you don't like the way the notes sound together is one thing, but "on principal" is stupid, biased and limiting your potential. Pentatonics are easy, yes, but they're used in practically every genre, metal, rock, pop, punk, ska, reggae, funk, blues, jazz, and many others. Whether or not they're easy, the various pentatonic scales are a huge tonal palette, especially nowadays, and robbing yourself of that palette is like cutting off your own leg.

i dont avoid it altogether, i avoid letting it become my entire means of expressing myself on the instrument.

i still fit in a few david-gilmour type bend licks into each solo. if im feeling rebellious, even a bit of fast jerry cantrell type fast legato stuff. (sorry i have to use player names to describe what im doing, this is the internet so communication is always a bit harder)
#13
Quote by Tedis1111
so you should play music you hate so you are loved????



Nobody wants to go watch a performer who is too wrapped up in what he/she wants to do that they have no regard for what the audience wants. The audience wants to be entertained, and if you're not entertaining them, you don't deserve to be up on stage performing. Stay in your bedroom if the only one you're interested in entertaining is yourself.
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#14
Quote by larrytheguitar
**** the audience, do what you want. Guitar is guitar.

And Blues is Blues.
strat player forever.
#15
Quote by StewieSwan
Shut up. The audience is what performing is all about.


They can get stuffed.

They'll suffer through whatever noise I produce and be damn grateful to have basked in my artistic glow.
No gods, no countries, no masters.
More guitar, less Ultimate-Guitar.
Be Serious.
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#16
Quote by cerpintaxt45
i dont avoid it altogether, i avoid letting it become my entire means of expressing myself on the instrument.

i still fit in a few david-gilmour type bend licks into each solo. if im feeling rebellious, even a bit of fast jerry cantrell type fast legato stuff. (sorry i have to use player names to describe what im doing, this is the internet so communication is always a bit harder)


Ah. Apologies for that assumption then. I'm curious though, what exactly do you mean by your "entire means of expressing myself on the instrument"? I'm pretty sure most blues guitarists who aren't just kids who figured out the pentatonic and don't want to learn anything else probably use more than just the pentatonics. I digress though.

And either way, like I said, whether or not it's stupid, the audience wanted something sounding typically bluesy. An audience who gets a different style than expected will be unhappy, even if there are little bits here and there.
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#17
Quote by StewieSwan
Shut up. The audience is what performing is all about.


And here I thought performing was just to have a bit of fun and look like a drunken tool
#18
Quote by Picklelerner
Its cool that you play what you want to, i admire that, but you were playing for that audience, not for yourself. Its no fair to the audience that you go up and play something that you want and they dont. If ur playing in front of people let them hear what they want to hear or just deal with being the bore of the night. They dont know what apreggios or octaves are and dont care, they just want to hear songs they like and are used to. it doesnt matter if people like ur style of playing or not, play what you want... but accept the fact that others may not want to hear it.

Exactly, it's like going to a Dragonforce concert and they get onstage to play Nirvana covers. It's fine to do whatever you want on your own time, but don't waste the audience's time who came to see something in particular. I mentioned Dragonforce because they play fast and have a large following. It's not that technical stuff isn't appreciated, it's just not appreciated when people don't want to see/hear it. You have to look at it from the audience's point of view. They're taking time out of their schedule to see something they want for entertainment. It's like going to see a bad movie, it sucks.
#19
Quote by necrosis1193
Pentatonics are easy, yes, but they're used in practically every genre, metal, rock, pop, punk, ska, reggae, funk, blues, jazz, and many others.


I'm not quite sure about how often pentatonics are used in those genres, but then again I'm not too big on reggae and jazz. Other than that, I totally agree with everything you just posted.
Quote by Jesus_Dean
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Quote by yoduh4077
MY TIME HAS COME.
Quote by Jesus_Dean
^^^See! Told ya so!
#20
Quote by necrosis1193
Ah. Apologies for that assumption then. I'm curious though, what exactly do you mean by your "entire means of expressing myself on the instrument"? I'm pretty sure most blues guitarists who aren't just kids who figured out the pentatonic and don't want to learn anything else probably use more than just the pentatonics. I digress though.

And either way, like I said, whether or not it's stupid, the audience wanted something sounding typically bluesy. An audience who gets a different style than expected will be unhappy, even if there are little bits here and there.

well, come on, im sure youve met the type of person who doesnt truly know interval names, chord tones, or the like. the person who thinks whole tone bends and really fast legato licks are just, the pinnacle of emotional expression on the instrument.

what you have to realize is this. my true aspiration is jazz guitar, its what i study at school. but, its fairly easy to recognize that jazz and blues are very much so related. so basic logic tells me, if i want to be a serious jazz guitarist, i have to be able to play blues.
#21
Quote by yoduh4077
I'm not quite sure about how often pentatonics are used in those genres, but then again I'm not too big on reggae and jazz. Other than that, I totally agree with everything you just posted.

The pentatonic scale is used in every genre of music in every part of the world
#22
Quote by yoduh4077
I'm not quite sure about how often pentatonics are used in those genres, but then again I'm not too big on reggae and jazz. Other than that, I totally agree with everything you just posted.


Glad to know someone agreed with me.

Quote by cerpintaxt45
well, come on, im sure youve met the type of person who doesnt truly know interval names, chord tones, or the like. the person who thinks whole tone bends and really fast legato licks are just, the pinnacle of emotional expression on the instrument.

what you have to realize is this. my true aspiration is jazz guitar, its what i study at school. but, its fairly easy to recognize that jazz and blues are very much so related. so basic logic tells me, if i want to be a serious jazz guitarist, i have to be able to play blues.


I have, but more often than not it's because they've not been properly trained, not because of stupidity. It's not their fault.

That's bullcrap. I admire your desire and willingness to do so, but if you don't like the blues you don't have to play it. Even if you want to be a jazz guitarist.
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#23
Quote by StewieSwan
Nobody wants to go watch a performer who is too wrapped up in what he/she wants to do that they have no regard for what the audience wants. The audience wants to be entertained, and if you're not entertaining them, you don't deserve to be up on stage performing. Stay in your bedroom if the only one you're interested in entertaining is yourself.


Which is why I'm disgusted by modern music (ranging from the 60's and onwards). I call it "Teh Great Stupification" (The Great Misdirect was already taken).
There were great classical composers in the late 1800's-early 1900's. And these guys were selling seats like pancakes.
I hate that being popular nowadays has to equal compromising artistic integrity. Which probably why back in the day music was more elitist (and by default, more awesome).

Although you can be extremely catchy, technical, and innovative in one stroke *a-hem* Damiera.

TO THE BOLD PART Immortal Technique would like to have a word with you...
#24
Quote by JELIFISH19
Exactly, it's like going to a Dragonforce concert and they get onstage to play Nirvana covers. It's fine to do whatever you want on your own time, but don't waste the audience's time who came to see something in particular. I mentioned Dragonforce because they play fast and have a large following. It's not that technical stuff isn't appreciated, it's just not appreciated when people don't want to see/hear it. You have to look at it from the audience's point of view. They're taking time out of their schedule to see something they want for entertainment. It's like going to see a bad movie, it sucks.


I do have to agree with this.
If people played to get in, you generally wanna, cater *shudder* to their needs. That is if you want to be appreciated.
Who says that you have to be "appreciated", especially if it ends up making you miserable?
#25
Quote by MLilienthal
The pentatonic scale is used in every genre of music in every part of the world



I take it you've never heard middle eastern and indian music.
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#26
Quote by StewieSwan
I take it you've never heard middle eastern and indian music.

each of those are microtonal, right?
#27
I take it you've never heard middle eastern and indian music


Or techno
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#28
Quote by StewieSwan
Nobody wants to go watch a performer who is too wrapped up in what he/she wants to do that they have no regard for what the audience wants. The audience wants to be entertained, and if you're not entertaining them, you don't deserve to be up on stage performing. Stay in your bedroom if the only one you're interested in entertaining is yourself.



I find a lot of times that those kind of composers release more interesting music. I´ve learned a lot of cool harmony and rhythm tricks as well as being entirely fascinated by listening to music from Feinberg, Scriabin, Schönberg, Stravinsky and many others who very obviously had no intent of pleasing an audience.
#29
And also to the TS, only use complexity if that is what is needed to express what you need to at the time. Avoiding something simple and common would be silly if the feelings of the moment are simple, common, day to day feelings.
#30
Quote by huevos
Which is why I'm disgusted by modern music (ranging from the 60's and onwards). I call it "Teh Great Stupification" (The Great Misdirect was already taken).
There were great classical composers in the late 1800's-early 1900's. And these guys were selling seats like pancakes.
I hate that being popular nowadays has to equal compromising artistic integrity. Which probably why back in the day music was more elitist (and by default, more awesome).

Although you can be extremely catchy, technical, and innovative in one stroke *a-hem* Damiera.

TO THE BOLD PART Immortal Technique would like to have a word with you...

It's not compromising artistic integrity. It's just that 99.99999% of guitarist are not composers, they're players. Composition is writing music for many instruments, not just playing one. Music these days is more social and less individual. Most rock music is created by a couple individuals playing their own thing. That comes together to make a song. Composing is more individual. There are still "classical" composers around. They're just not as popular as they were before. They still sell out shows. But there are very few suitable places for those shows. They sell out because they're not a daily thing or very widespread. It's the same as it was in the last century. You also have to consider that music and theatre was the only form of entertainment they had back then. Classical is still alive, it's just that the average Joe these days doesn't care about them. I blame this on the radio and modern entertainment. Music changed during the ragtime and swing era, it became OK to have fun and enjoy the music. There was energy and dancing involved. It's hard to go back to sitting down and just listening to music when you've danced and had fun. When people listened to classical back then, they went to shows. There was no radio, CDs, or internet. It was a night out. People did it because it was something to do. Now you can go to a show and have fun. It's just the natural evolution of entertainment. That's all music ever was and ever will be...entertainment.
#31
Dude, it's not about how hard it is to play. The majority of the audience don't play guitar (usually) and what they care about is how good it sounds not how hard it was to play. You can play an Em chord with your pinky finger for example which would be considerably harder for most people, yet the sound wouldn't be any better.
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#32
Quote by StewieSwan
Shut up. The audience is what performing is all about.


You don't play music in order to please the audience. The audience should be pleased with the music you are a playing...unless you're all for degreading your music in order to get those lovely hand claps.

EDIT; I understand that this is harder to follow in regards to open mic nights ect but i still think the point stands.
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#33
Technical ability =/= sounds good.

Sometimes keeping things simple sounds much better.
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#34
Things that really impress people are
1) Tapping, I can't tell you how many times I've played a shred song and have people go "Oh ok", and then I tap Hot for Teacher or something and they go "Whoa"
2) Playing really fast, depends on the person, but I'd say maybe 50% of people are impressed, 50% of people figure its meh.
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#35
Quote by Guitar2theface
Things that really impress people are
1) Tapping, I can't tell you how many times I've played a shred song and have people go "Oh ok", and then I tap Hot for Teacher or something and they go "Whoa"
2) Playing really fast, depends on the person, but I'd say maybe 50% of people are impressed, 50% of people figure its meh.


true!
playing the solo from In Too Deep always gets applause
me and a couple of my mates joke 'tapping impresses everyone but the guitarists in the room'
#36
i experienced this problem first-hand last year. so this year i don't even bother playing for my college. if people don't appreciate what you have to offer, keep it to yourself.

and sadly i started to understand why my parents disallowed me to study music. people just might no dig what you do and you might not make an easy living.
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#37
You basically wanted to show off your skills but you forgot the main goal of a musician - Entertainment.

Every single person can achieve high technique and insane speeds. It's a matter of practice and commitment. Being truly musical is where most people fail.
#38
Quote by morkeg
You basically wanted to show off your skills but you forgot the main goal of a musician - Entertainment.



That isn´t my goal at all.
#39
It seems a lot of people have a very romanticized view of being a composer and a guitarist. A lot of you are forgetting that essentially when you strip him/her down, what a guitarist or musician is, is an entertainer. Music came together back thousands of years ago as a form of entertainment.

People tend to forget that. 95% of all bands that are revered as being the best of all time, did not start as artists.

Example 1:

The Beatles' first album Please, Please Me was comprised 3 covers of popular music at the time and 4 of their own songs that closely emulated the style of popular artists at the time. It really was not until Revolver, that their own voice as artists started to become prominent in their music (their musical voice started to develop during Rubber Soul).

Example 2:

The Rolling Stones' first album The Rolling Stones was comprised of covers of popular music for all of the songs all the album, except one. It wasn't really until Aftermath that you got a full album of Rolling Stones' original songs.

Example 3:

Cream's first album Fresh Cream had 6/11 songs that were covers of songs. Only one of the songs was not a popular song at the time (Four at Late by Robert Johnson). However, this is not the best example because they were all popular musicians at the point they created Cream and were followed widely.

Example 4:

Skipping over the 70's, because there were a lot of bands that followed this path, with the occasional exception.

Example 5:

Now, in the 80's, Metallica and Megadeth were both heavily influenced by their metal predecessors, Iron Maiden and Judas, and that influence is reflected in their music. It isn't until Metallica's Master of Puppets and Megadeth's Peace Sells... (in my opinion) that their own voice starts to come forth.


Example 6:

Steve Vai's musical artistry evolved from his tenure in Frank Zappa's band and David Lee Roth's band, as well as from his teacher Joe Satriani. His own voice started to really come out in his music in 1990 with his album Passion and Warfare, 6 years after he started his solo career.


Therefore from these examples, we can draw the conclusion that everything boils down to appealing to your audience and making yourself known, before you can change the musical world with your creativity, originality, ideas, technique, complexity, etc.


Also it's important to mention that the best melodies generally are the simplest. Basically, follow the KISS rule (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Dave Weiner, who plays with Steve Vai, agrees:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKUsB6_V0e4
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#40
If you´re trying to be well liked then entertainment is nearly always a main goal.
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