Poll: Read das thread before answering... but is the male snip-snip acceptable?
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View poll results: Read das thread before answering... but is the male snip-snip acceptable?
Yes
29 43%
No
38 57%
Voters: 67.
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#1
So I was on Facebook and some of my female friends were discussing how one of them has to do a presentation on female circumcision, or more generally Female Genital Cutting (FGC). It is a practice undertaken in certain Muslim and African cultures ranging from removal of the labia minora/majora to removal of the clitoris and in some circumstances permanent shutting of a woman's vagina - it's pretty scary and forked-up stuff. Either way, I remarked how horrific such a practice is but pointed out that if we are going to say it's against a woman's rights because of consent than we should apply the same standard to male babies and leave them uncircumcised. I did this just to point out a cultural double-standard.

Throughout the course of this conversation the merits of having one's foreskin removed were then hotly debated between me and a crowd of women, and yet only one of them seemed to objectively cede and agree with me on the moral grounds of consent. However the argument often veered off course to about how FGC is much worse (which it undoubtedly is) and how I'm foolish for trying to draw a connection between the two. Eventually some random girl I don't know ended up saying on the Facebook thread "tell [Mo Jiggity] to take a feminism class and then we'll talk about female circumcision vs the other!"

SO.... I ask you Pit, if we as human beings are to say that messing with a woman's genitals is wrong on the grounds of not having her consent, shouldn't male circumcision at birth thereby be considered a cruel practice as well?

EDIT: WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE MALE VS FEMALE PROCEDURES. WE ARE DEBATING THAT IF ONE IS WRONG FOR ONE REASON THEN BY THE SAME REASON THE OTHER IS. THAT MEANS BY APPLICATION OF THIS LOGIC ALONE... NOT ON THE BASIS OF CLEANLINESS, AESTHETICS, AND SO FORTH. This leaves open the option to have it done later in life if that's what the person indeed wants, and then they can get it done with anesthetic.
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Last edited by Mo Jiggity at Nov 10, 2009,
#3
Its female genital mutilation. It is a practice that is done to prevent women from having sex, or enjoying sex. To keep them "in their place" and not be promiscuous.

Male circumcision, however, has practice purposes (cleanliness, less painful [in some cases]) and also does not alter the sex organ in a way like female mutilation does.
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#4
yes it should. In my first year of high school, I thought it was when they cut off the umbilical cord. The other kids laughed at me for a long time.
#5
the male circ. is good because of all the infections uncric. guys can get are pretty much eliminated for circed guys

that muslim crap seems waaaay wrong though.
Quote by mullet1337
Holy ****. **** you. You ****ing ****.
#6
Quote by captaincrunk
We already have. Reported.


Oh wow that's cool dude because like I just searchbar'd it and the other thread wasn't as specific as mine and in fact just addressed the issue as a whole rather than the specific circumstance which I described for the poll so your wanton self-righteous dickery is unwarranted kthxbye.
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#7
Wow. Do you even know what circumcision actually is?

The circumcision you've described for women isn't even close to what could be considered falling under that term. That's mutilation.

Male circumcision in the Western world causes zero health problems and does not prevent sex in any way.
#8
No, it's not the same thing, also no, it shouldn't be done without consent.

Well, I'm uncircumcised, and as you may be aware if you go into the sex thread, I have Phimosis, which wouldn't have happened if I were circumcised. On the other hand, I've heard arguments for and against circumcision, so it's really ultimately a preference thing, which of course is impossible to measure because there's really no going back once you get it done.

This will be debated forever and ever. In retrospect, I kind of wish I were circumcised.
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#9
Cruel? nah.

Creepy and weird? Yeah, I think so. Un-cut here.

The way I look at, it's just more ****. Not that I think I was ever particularly lacking, but hey, more penis is more penis.

Although, it helps that I don't have one of those creepy turtleneck wangs like you see on greek statues.
I might have a different opinion if I did...

I didn't even realize I was uncircumsized until I asked my parents when I was a teenager, and no girl has ever noticed until I pointed it out.
They like it, it makes handjobs easier.

There's a fair amount of stigma attached to it here, I blame those few morons who don't know how to bathe regularly or wash their junk.
#10
Quote by Mo Jiggity
Oh wow that's cool dude because like I just searchbar'd it and the other thread wasn't as specific as mine and in fact just addressed the issue as a whole rather than the specific circumstance which I described for the poll so your wanton self-righteous dickery is unwarranted kthxbye.

It is warranted, and your attacks aren't appreciated. This thread could have easily had been posted in that thread. Look through it. Your argument is old.
#11
Quote by Mo Jiggity
SO.... I ask you Pit, if we as human beings are to say that messing with a woman's genitals is wrong on the grounds of not having her consent, shouldn't male circumcision at birth thereby be considered a cruel practice as well?

Yes. If a bloke snips willingly though I don't care. Consent is the issue.
Quote by archangels666
Male circumcision in the Western world causes zero health problems and does not prevent sex in any way.

Oh no. Just the occasional death. I hear it's treatable these days.

Seriously though, every now and again it does result in death for the child.
#12
Quote by Rutch
There's a fair amount of stigma attached to it here, I blame those few morons who don't know how to bathe regularly or wash their junk.

Actually, that is straight up myth. It doesn't even have a shred of legitimacy.
#13
Quote by Craigo
Yes. If a bloke snips willingly though I don't care. Consent is the issue.

Oh no. Just the occasional death. I hear it's treatable these days.

Seriously though, every now and again it does result in death for the child.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
#14
Ewww no way is it cruel, first off it's for religious purposes and is a choice, secondly uncircumcised dicks look dirty.
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#15
Quote by captaincrunk
It is warranted, and your attacks aren't appreciated. This thread could have easily had been posted in that thread. Look through it. Your argument is old.


I know my 'argument' is old... whose isn't? Almost every argument one can make has context in a culture as vast as ours. If I posted a reply in the other thread, it would bump the thread, nobody would read my reply, and more stupid posts based solely on the OP would start coming in. Then somebody as yourself would go "Why did you bump an old thread? Reported," and I'd be in the same boat.

If the thread's been reported there's ZERO need for you to reply to the thread besides 1) to flex your internet p33n0r and piss me off or 2) to increase your post count and your self-satisfaction.
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#16
Quote by Craigo
Seriously though, every now and again it does result in death for the child.

Although I'm not saying you're wrong, I fail to see how a doctor could manage to kill someone by cutting a small piece of skin.
#17
Quote by 36mikeyb36
Ewww no way is it cruel, first off it's for religious purposes and is a choice, secondly uncircumcised dicks look dirty.

a) Mutilating a child when they cannot give consent is neither not cruel or a choice.
b) It's for religious purposes? Nothing says 'God's creation is perfect' by God commanding to alter his creation for him.
#19
Quote by archangels666
Although I'm not saying you're wrong, I fail to see how a doctor could manage to kill someone by cutting a small piece of skin.



Heard of infections?
#21
Quote by Mo Jiggity
I know my 'argument' is old... whose isn't? Almost every argument one can make has context in a culture as vast as ours. If I posted a reply in the other thread, it would bump the thread, nobody would read my reply, and more stupid posts based solely on the OP would start coming in. Then somebody as yourself would go "Why did you bump an old thread? Reported," and I'd be in the same boat.

If the thread's been reported there's ZERO need for you to reply to the thread besides 1) to flex your internet p33n0r and piss me off or 2) to increase your post count and your self-satisfaction.

The pit doesn't count towards post count. This is all pissing you off, baby. No need to be an asshole huh? You're only making yourself look worse. Shoulda let the mods decide, but you can't just leave it alone, can you?
#22
Quote by captaincrunk
The pit doesn't count towards post count. This is all pissing you off, baby. No need to be an asshole huh? You're only making yourself look worse. Shoulda let the mods decide, but you can't just leave it alone, can you?


Neither, apparently, can you, given that you replied, "baby." You just made a case against yourself, if anything, by discounting my first postulation.

And what better do I have to do when skipping class on a Tuesday morning exactly than be on the bowels of the internets, UG?
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#23
Quote by webbtje
Heard of infections?

Point taken.

Quote by Craigo

Having already looked up Phimosis, I'm not sure I really want to click on that.
No offense to woodenbandman.


I guess this whole discussion just seems weird to me because I only know of two or three people who've been uncircumcised and I've never heard either side complain about any real problems other than "All the other penises look different than mine!"

So pretty much, I can't really contribute much.

AÆdit:
Quote by Mo Jiggity
And what better do I have to do when skipping class on a Tuesday morning exactly than be on the bowels of the internets, UG?

Um...maybe you should...go to class?
Jus throwing that out there.
Last edited by archangels666 at Nov 10, 2009,
#25
Quote by Craigo
Actually, that is straight up myth. It doesn't even have a shred of legitimacy.


A myth?

I should clarify, by stigma, I mean the stigma that un-cut is gross.

There's a lot of people who think, "Ew, uncircumsized? Must be dirty..."

And to a certain extent, they're right. It's pretty obvious that if you leave either dick unwashed, the un-cut one is going to be dirtier.

It SHOULDN'T be that way, but it is. There's some disgusting f*ckers out there, on both sides of this issue.
#27
Quote by archangels666
I guess this whole discussion just seems weird to me because I only know of two or three people who've been uncircumcised and I've never heard either side complain about any real problems other than "All the other penises look different than mine!"

So pretty much, I can't really contribute much.

For me it comes down to that it's not necessary and it's without consent. The consent is the issue. I don't think parents should ever have the power to decide for their child. It's the person's own choice. Some people have been circumcised and really disliked that choice being made for them. Some wish they had been so they get cut.

I tried raising this in the sex thread awhile back but I got idiotic responses of OMG STOP TURNING THIS INTO CUT OR UNCUT or WHY DO YOU HAVE TO ARGUE ALL THE TIME CRAIG.

This is a fairly simple principle
#29
Quote by Craigo
For me it comes down to that it's not necessary and it's without consent. The consent is the issue. I don't think parents should ever have the power to decide for their child. It's the person's own choice. Some people have been circumcised and really disliked that choice being made for them. Some wish they had been so they get cut.

I tried raising this in the sex thread awhile back but I got idiotic responses of OMG STOP TURNING THIS INTO CUT OR UNCUT or WHY DO YOU HAVE TO ARGUE ALL THE TIME CRAIG.

This is a fairly simple principle

OMG STOP TURNING THIS INTO CUT OR UNCUT and, WHY DO YOU HAVE TO ARGUE ALL THE TIME CRAIG!
#30
Quote by Craigo
I don't think parents should ever have the power to decide for their child.

So parents should let kids decide whether they want to go to school or not? Or bathe?

Ah, but that's an entirely different can of worms. And yes, I see your point.

I tried raising this in the sex thread awhile back but I got idiotic responses of OMG STOP TURNING THIS INTO CUT OR UNCUT or WHY DO YOU HAVE TO ARGUE ALL THE TIME CRAIG.



The sex thread is just a bunch of preteens whining about their small penises and wondering if some stray jizz can get a girl pregnant anyway.
#31
Quote by Craigo
I don't think parents should ever have the power to decide for their child.

I would love to discuss this topic through a medium other than this thread. Care to start another thread about the rights of a child vs. the rights of a parent? Not just in circumcisions, but in every aspect of life. It's always been a puzzle for me.
#32
Quote by captaincrunk
I would love to discuss this topic through a medium other than this thread. Care to start another thread about the rights of a child vs. the rights of a parent? Not just in circumcisions, but in every aspect of life. It's always been a puzzle for me.

I think that would be a pretty good discussion, were it started, but alas, I'm going to eat in a little bit and then I have a lab, so I won't be back to argue for a few hours.
#33
circumcision and genital mutilation without consent is obviously wrong. Circumcision for medical reasons and things is obviously okay.

I see no real point in this whole circumcision at birth thing a lot of cultures have going on, seems a bit pointless to me.
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#34
Quote by Craigo
That's the myth.


Maybe this is just a cultural thing, I've never discussed the issue with anyone outside of North America.

Could be it's just more common over there?

Here in the states, though, it is a VERY different story.
Circumsized is the norm, deviation from that is seen as just that. Deviated.

#35
Circumcision is nowhere near as widespread over here as it is in the US. I'm not aware (someone prove me wrong) of a secular Western country where it is.
#36
Quote by webbtje
Circumcision is nowhere near as widespread over here as it is in the US. I'm not aware (someone prove me wrong) of a secular Western country where it is.

It's our severe Christianity disorder. Combined with the fact that we imported our christianity with the craziest Christians western civilization had to offer, and you get cut up dicks.
#37
Quote by captaincrunk
I would love to discuss this topic through a medium other than this thread. Care to start another thread about the rights of a child vs. the rights of a parent? Not just in circumcisions, but in every aspect of life. It's always been a puzzle for me.

Maybe, but my thoughts on this aren't too well formulated.

I will say though that the parent cannot decide for the child on this particular issue because it is an unnecessary action.
#38
Quote by footsteps7173
the male circ. is good because of all the infections uncric. guys can get are pretty much eliminated for circed guys

that muslim crap seems waaaay wrong though.


ololol infections? there is no cleanliness issue uncircumsized, all it takes is rolling it back and washing the damn thing, honestly if someone is infected down there it's his own damn fault.

EDIT: ^ I agree there craigo, my parents left me alone and said if I wanted to then they would get it done but if it isn't needed they weren't allowed to decide for me, seems fair really. I don't think if should be done at birth, there's no need other than religious, and if that's the case then by all means, go ahead lol.
Last edited by sglover34479 at Nov 10, 2009,
#39
Quote by Craigo
Maybe, but my thoughts on this aren't too well formulated.

I will say though that the parent cannot decide for the child on this particular issue because it is an unnecessary action.

Much like they have to take you to the doctor even if they're religious. Yeah, parenting is tough. I'm glad I've got some years left before I get to try it out.
#40
I think this thread is through but anyway...
This is by far not what this sh*t is about this is about double standards -I GUESS- i.e: why cutting guys dicks is O.K and cutting a female clit is wrong, right ??
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