Page 9 of 17
#321
Really? That's all you have to contribute?
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#322
Quote by GodofCheesecake
I don't really understand myself why you're so eager to kill them off. What does that accomplish?


yes, i'm only addressing one of your many points, but i think you're lacking insight on this matter in particular.

killing them off means we don't have to deal with the bastards anymore. no more money spent on them to rehabilitate them or punish them. and we don't have to worry about them escaping their fate and hurting more people. they can escape from prison, but they can't escape from death. just think of it as a life sentence.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

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#323
Dude, the money issue has been covered about twenty times already. Killing them is MORE EXPENSIVE.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#324
Quote by GodofCheesecake
Dude, the money issue has been covered about twenty times already. Killing them is MORE EXPENSIVE.



It's a shame the pathetic courts have to make things like that extremely expensive.

I mean if they are found guilty with 100% correct evidence for a crime that fits the bill ... then a simple Gun shot to the head is fairly cheap.

It shouldn't be a case of money. It should be a case of what is right.

The system seriously has a flaw, it shouldn't cost that much to kill someone.
#325
Quote by BrashPersona
I mean if they are found guilty with 100% correct evidence for a crime that fits the bill

Do you realize how extremely rare that is?
Quote by BrashPersona
It shouldn't be a case of money. It should be a case of what is right.

That's subjective.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#326
Well, no, the man who wrongfuly spent 30years of his life is not better off dead. That's just a rare case of such a wrongful conviction.
The death penalty does not wrongfully convict innocent people, it's the failure of some other party of a bogus trial.

Ok, fine, it's a moral argument. And maybe it's just be strong opinion that stops me from understanding how anyone could concieve the notion that man 'b' is an equal being at man 'a'.
Maybe physically, because they're both human (as in the homosapien, not the spiritual crap that comes as baggage to the word 'human'), two arms and two legs (maybe) and sacks of mostly water.
On any other level I fail to realise how they are equal. And for the sake of everyone, don't whip out religion and make it religious (not insinuating that you were... just putting it out there).

The Jesus pic went over my head. Have to admit my fail there.

Edit: Yeah, why is it so expensive? A gun shot to the head is fairly cheap (cheaper than keeping the man alive for years).
What's wrong with a gunshot? What makes lethal injection 'better' than a shot between the eyes? Both kill without pain.
Even if you have to pay a janitor to clean up the mess of the gunshot... less expensive than keeping the murderer alive for eyars.
Last edited by page.slash at Nov 11, 2009,
#327
Quote by page.slash
The death penalty does not wrongfully convict innocent people, it's the failure of some other party of a bogus trial.



wat


Oh, and for the idiots out there:

THE DEATH PENALTY HAS BEEN FOUND TO COST MORE MONEY THAN LIFE IMPRISONMENT. GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS!
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Last edited by StewieSwan at Nov 11, 2009,
#328
I'm not religious. I don't need to be religious to believe that nobody has the right to take the life of another human. Just because someone breaks that rule doesn't mean we need to do the same thing to them, that's just breaking it again but with a lot of important legal people nodding their heads as it happens.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#329
Quote by GodofCheesecake
Do you realize how extremely rare that is?

That's subjective.


Probably, with todays technology and understanding, not that rare. And for those cases of hard crime, they should be punished by death.
#330
Quote by BrashPersona
Probably, with todays technology and understanding, not that rare.

You're only looking at aspect side of it, though. Very rarely does anyone murder someone else for no reason.
[quote="BrashPersona[/quote"]And for those cases of hard crime, they should be punished by death.
No they shouldn't.

See, I can make a statement with no supporting arguments too.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

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#331
Quote by BrashPersona
Probably, with todays technology and understanding, not that rare. And for those cases of hard crime, they should be punished by death.



There is always room for doubt. Plenty of innocent people have been executed within the last 30 years.
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#332
In response to Swan's "wat"
my apologies for poor wording.

What I eman to say is that the existance of a deth penalty does not create cases where people are wrongly convicted of murder.
Death penalty or not, those rare cases will happen, unfortunately. So why is this 'argument' coming up? It's a flaw of the trail... something that has to be fixed in the system. Eliminating the death penalty will not fix it.
#333
Quote by GodofCheesecake
I'm not religious. I don't need to be religious to believe that nobody has the right to take the life of another human. Just because someone breaks that rule doesn't mean we need to do the same thing to them, that's just breaking it again but with a lot of important legal people nodding their heads as it happens.



A hundred years ago or two if you killed someone, you'd be killed back. It's what is right.

Now these murderers, rapists, fraudsters and psychopaths are protected too well by the state. They can have hundreds and thousands of dollars spent on their welfare - for instants, new identities involving plastic surgery or free housing for life and protective surroundings.

It makes me sick. It's all paid for by that person that actually behaves and bothers to work to help society.
Last edited by BrashPersona at Nov 11, 2009,
#334
Quote by page.slash
What I eman to say is that the existance of a deth penalty does not create cases where people are wrongly convicted of murder.
Death penalty or not, those rare cases will happen, unfortunately. So why is this 'argument' coming up? It's a flaw of the trail... something that has to be fixed in the system. Eliminating the death penalty will not fix it.

...No, but it keeps us from KILLING an innocent person. If we simply jail them for life new evidence may come up to exonerate them. If that happens after they're executed, what's the use?
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#335
Quote by page.slash
In response to Swan's "wat"
my apologies for poor wording.

What I eman to say is that the existance of a deth penalty does not create cases where people are wrongly convicted of murder.
Death penalty or not, those rare cases will happen, unfortunately. So why is this 'argument' coming up? It's a flaw of the trail... something that has to be fixed in the system. Eliminating the death penalty will not fix it.



Yes, but someone wrongly convicted can later be released. An executed person cannot. Sure they lost X number of years in their life, but who are you to tell them that they're better off dead?


Quote by BrashPersona
A hundred years ago or two if you killed someone, you'd be killed back. It's what is right.


A hundred years ago, black people were inferior and deserved no rights, as were women. Tradition is not an argument.
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Last edited by StewieSwan at Nov 11, 2009,
#336
Quote by BrashPersona
A hundred years ago or two if you killed someone, you'd be killed back. It's what is right.

We haven't evolved THAT quickly. One hundred years ago you'd be subject to a trial, just like today. Perhaps minus some technology that helps discover new evidence, but that technology has helped exonerate as many people as it's condemned.

Either way, I don't really see how the statements "100 years ago people did this" and "it's what's right" have any logical connection.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
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#337
i think that sometimes its fair sometimes it isn't like if a person has killed a lot of people and he wont stop eve if he's jailed then i think it's only a good idea to put him down for the safety of others. that's just what i think of course.
#338
Quote by GodofCheesecake
Either way, I don't really see how the statements "100 years ago people did this" and "it's what's right" have any logical connection.


Are you joking?

They're just lame mans terms for notions and laws that should stand side by side with ethics and the morals of people.
#339
Quote by PACloud
and he wont stop eve if he's jailed

...How does that work? There are such things as maximum security and solitary confinement.
EDIT:
Quote by BrashPersona
Are you joking?

They're just lame mans terms for notions and laws that should stand side by side with ethics and the morals of people.

I believe the phrase you're looking for is "layman's terms," and I still don't see how you can justify anything by saying people did it one hundred years ago.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

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Last edited by GodofCheesecake at Nov 11, 2009,
#340
I'm not saying that they're better off dead. I really hope I made that clear earlier.

My point is...
if a road is poorly kept my the municipality, and becomes cracked, with potholes etc... and a dude with a Honda Civic blows out his shocks because of a pothole, it is not the man's fault for either
a) not owning an SUV to cope with the road inthe city he lives in
b) he didn't keep a careful eye out for the numerous potholes

the fault is the municipality's for not mainaining the road.

You want the death of innocent people to end because of the death penalty? Fix the system, that will solve it.
#341
Quote by GodofCheesecake
Really? That's all you have to contribute?


*Meths shrugs*

It's late and I didn't feel like agitating myself by reading through 8 pages of mindless drivel.


The death penalty isn't ok. Anyone who says it is should be shot.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

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#342
Quote by page.slash
You want the death of innocent people to end because of the death penalty? Fix the system, that will solve it.
What the hell are you suggesting? The system CAN'T be fixed. There IS no 100% way to know someone committed a crime or not. You can't just push a magical button and have the word "guilty" or "innocent" pop up onto a screen, otherwise we'd just do that instead of having a long, expensive trial.

The ONLY way to be sure we never kill an innocent man is to simply not kill anyone.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#343
Quote by PACloud
i think that sometimes its fair sometimes it isn't like if a person has killed a lot of people and he wont stop eve if he's jailed then i think it's only a good idea to put him down for the safety of others. that's just what i think of course.


I agree.

This is an extremely subjective topic, but I usually lean towards using the death penalty. I have no extreme factual support, but to me it gives a better example of consequences than being thrown in Jail and living with guilt.

Even my statement could be disputed rather easily, but save your time because I know what you would say...Jail is worse than being killed etc.

My two cents.
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Last edited by Its So Easy at Nov 11, 2009,
#344
Quote by page.slash
I'm not saying that they're better off dead. I really hope I made that clear earlier.

My point is...
if a road is poorly kept my the municipality, and becomes cracked, with potholes etc... and a dude with a Honda Civic blows out his shocks because of a pothole, it is not the man's fault for either
a) not owning an SUV to cope with the road inthe city he lives in
b) he didn't keep a careful eye out for the numerous potholes

the fault is the municipality's for not mainaining the road.

You want the death of innocent people to end because of the death penalty? Fix the system, that will solve it.



And you can fix the system by abolishing the death penalty...

If you disagree, I'd love to hear your perfect solution.
And even if you DID find some way to only execute those who are 100% guilty, I and many other people would still object to their execution. It solves absolutely nothing.
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#345
Quote by Meths
*Meths shrugs*

It's late and I didn't feel like agitating myself by reading through 8 pages of mindless drivel.

It's not all mindless drivel. I've posted quite a bit myself
The death penalty isn't ok. Anyone who says it is should be shot.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#346
The death penalty isn't ok. Anyone who says it is should be shot.



A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika!

So rip the mike, rip the stage, rip the system
I was born to rage against 'em
#347
The death penalty would be fine and dandy, if it was me who decided who got executed.
In any other arrangement, i oppose it wholeheartedly.
#348
Quote by StewieSwan
wat


Oh, and for the idiots out there:

THE DEATH PENALTY HAS BEEN FOUND TO COST MORE MONEY THAN LIFE IMPRISONMENT. GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS!


Get it through your thick ****ing skull, some people deserve to die for their transgressions. If this is your only argument, lets just reuse bullets from previous death squads. How about we just go back in to time and use ropes, stones or hell even a guillotine. All of these ideas are very cost-efficient. Hell, let me just beat the piss out of them with my 9 iron.

I do believe in the death penalty simply because my moral spectrum includes and eye for an eye. If someone murdered me, raped my daughter, or did some other inhumane, feral act that causes a life, I would expect that person to pay with their life. I find that a fair trade.
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#350
Quote by jono034
Get it through your thick ****ing skull, some people deserve to die for their transgressions. If this is your only argument, lets just reuse bullets from previous death squads. How about we just go back in to time and use ropes, stones or hell even a guillotine. All of these ideas are very cost-efficient. Hell, let me just beat the piss out of them with my 9 iron.

I do believe in the death penalty simply because my moral spectrum includes and eye for an eye. If someone murdered me, raped my daughter, or did some other inhumane, feral act that causes a life, I would expect that person to pay with their life. I find that a fair trade.



Your post is just oozing with stupidity.
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#351
Quote by StewieSwan
In-case you missed it, we are debating whether or not the government should have this power. Do you really want the state deciding who lives and who dies? I dont. And do you have any idea how huge the civilian death toll is in Iraq?!

Are you aware how many of those are purposeful deaths?
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#352
Quote by MetalliPuptmstr
a very good point indeed

No, it's not. We didn't murder, we killed. It's not murder, bud.
GEAR
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Marshall 1987 JCM-800 2210 100W

Proud Member of:
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Marshall Amplification
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#353
Quote by jono034
Get it through your thick ****ing skull, some people deserve to die for their transgressions. If this is your only argument, lets just reuse bullets from previous death squads.

It's not the only argument. Welcome to the 18-page thread.
Quote by jono034
I do believe in the death penalty simply because my moral spectrum includes and eye for an eye. If someone murdered me, raped my daughter, or did some other inhumane, feral act that causes a life, I would expect that person to pay with their life. I find that a fair trade.

Good thing you don't run the judicial system then. The court is no place for emotional outbursts.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#354
Quote by StewieSwan
Your post is just oozing with stupidity.


Wow, your retort just set me in my place and made me change my entire perspective towards the death penalty. I sense that your prepubescent mind could not sense sarcasm when sarcasm is presented. Considering you have stated that my post is "oozing with stupidity," I take it that your parents have not quite allowed you to form your own opinions and you are still eating mashed up apple sauce and drinking milk from sippy-cups. Would you like to explain why my post is "oozing with stupidity" from your high-chair, is do we need to remove the pacifier from your mouth?
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#355
Jesus, dude. Are you that aggressive in real life?
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#356
Quote by jono034
Wow, your retort just set me in my place and made me change my entire perspective towards the death penalty. I sense that your prepubescent mind could not sense sarcasm when sarcasm is presented. Considering you have stated that my post is "oozing with stupidity," I take it that your parents have not quite allowed you to form your own opinions and you are still eating mashed up apple sauce and drinking milk from sippy-cups. Would you like to explain why my post is "oozing with stupidity" from your high-chair, is do we need to remove the pacifier from your mouth?



I'd rather be a baby than an ignorant bigot.
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#357
Quote by GodofCheesecake
It's not the only argument. Welcome to the 18-page thread.

Good thing you don't run the judicial system then. The court is no place for emotional outbursts.


Well some of us live in the real world with real jobs and not in their parents basements, so reading through 18 pages of bitching and moaning about how the unjust and unrepresented should be spared is just out of the question.

The court is definitely a place for emotional outburst. I have served jury duty on a murder 1 case, where the man, if you even want to call him a man, raped and murdered his eight year daughter and murdered his 10 year old son for trying to stop him. You think his wife was not prone to an emotional outburst during that trial? He plead insanity due to emotional fatigue from being emotionally abused as a child to being laid off work weeks before the murder. Somehow a bunch of douchebags who were serving felt sorry for him and he admitted to a lock down psych ward to seek treatment for his emotional "problems."

You have no clue what you are on about.
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#358
I am completely and utterly against the death penalty. I do not think that killing is right at all. And killing someone for killing is just stooping down to their level and complete hypocrisy. I believe that, depending on the specific conditions of the crime, the best punishment for murder is life in prison. I only think that taking a person's life is only okay in matters of self defense and it is the only way to stop a person who is going to kill you. If a person is about to kill you and the only way to stop them from killing you is to kill them, then it is okay. But if you can somehow subdue or stop them by using a taser or some other non-lethal weapon, then use that. I think that police officers should go for their taser before they go for their gun. The death penalty doesn't prove anything. Evil only begets evil. Killing a person because they killed is just doing exactly what they did and not proving any points. It's just an endless cycle of killing. There has to be an end to it all. So, I am against the death penalty no matter what.
#359
Quote by StewieSwan
I'd rather be a baby than an ignorant bigot.


Jesus, your dad should have pulled out and shot you into an Arby's napkin.
UG NMA Member #2

Gil Grissom PWNS YOU!
#360
Quote by jono034
Well some of us live in the real world with real jobs and not in their parents basements, so reading through 18 pages of bitching and moaning about how the unjust and unrepresented should be spared is just out of the question.

I'm not saying you should have read the whole thread, I'm saying you shouldn't have read the last sentence posted and assumed it was the only argument posted ever. Seriously, you're coming off as really arrogant. You're allowed to have strong opinions about a matter but really, try to keep it civil...

Quote by jono034
The court is definitely a place for emotional outburst. I have served jury duty on a murder 1 case, where the man, if you even want to call him a man

You should never have been on that jury.
Quote by jono034
You think his wife was not prone to an emotional outburst during that trial? He plead insanity due to emotional fatigue from being emotionally abused as a child to being laid off work weeks before the murder. Somehow a bunch of douchebags who were serving felt sorry for him and he admitted to a lock down psych ward to seek treatment for his emotional "problems."

I'm sure she was emotional. What I meant was emotional appeals that aren't relevant to the actual facts of the case should never be allowed in a testimony.
Quote by jono034
You have no clue what you are on about.

And you have no way of knowing that.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT