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#1
I was wondering what the Pit could make of this.

Baby RB was born with a rare and genetic condition which meant that his muscles simply didn't work when he was born. As a result he is kept alive by a ventilator and cannot breathe or move on his own.

Recently his mother wished that he should be able to die, and this has been the opinion of some doctors involved in the case also, saying he would lead 'a pitiful and miserable existence' if allowed to live further.

The boy's father is arguing that he is able to interact and play with toys, and so is not fully physical disabled.

So,Pit, what do you make of all this? Should there be a clear 'right to life' or should babies and people in cases such as this be allowed to die?

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#3
Honestly, he would of suffered his entire life, so I think it was the right decision to take the child off of life support.
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#4
If he's able to communicate, live.
If he's brain/body dead, death is probably better.
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#6
100 years ago people would've just dealt with this tragedy. Now, with life support, nobody has to deal with the fact that some times, stuff goes down and you have to deal with it.

Yeah, it sound cold, and yes, I would have a different opinion if I were personally affected by something like this. I'd wanna live, dammit, but that's just not how nature works.
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#7
Able to play with some toys?

I'm not reading the article.. but if the kids muscles don't work to the point where a machine is breathing for him.. can he even be said to be living now?

I say let the kid die. He's way too young for any real memories, or really anything more than base reflexes at this point, so it's not like he's really aware (pretty sure at that stage babies haven't even realized that they're separate from the mother yet), and to let him live until he is able to be aware that a machine is breathing for him and his body is pretty well useless is IMO rather cruel.

If this baby was anything but a human, it'd be put down and anyone suggested keeping it alive etc. would be called an inhumane bastard.
#8
Quote by Scribbllez
If he's able to communicate, live.
If he's brain/body dead, death is probably better.



Here's the problem: as far as they know, his BRAIN works. BUT the rest of him does not,including his breathing.

Taken off the LSM he would die within days.


Personally I believe letting him die would be the right thing to do. He's never going to recover or show any real sign of improvement.
#9
The poor kid would have suffered it's entire life. Maybe in the future there will be a cure, but still...

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#10
Quote by osXtiger
The poor kid would have suffered it's entire life. Maybe in the future there will be a cure, but still...



There's a big maybe in there. Plus there's no guarantee AND in the meantime he's having to be kept alive at great cost.
#11
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Here's the problem: as far as they know, his BRAIN works. BUT the rest of him does not,including his breathing.

Taken off the LSM he would die within days.


Personally I believe letting him die would be the right thing to do. He's never going to recover or show any real sign of improvement.


BUT (you know I have to argue >_>
If his brain is working, he's a fully functioning human being, able to have emotions, opinions, feeling and everything. Just because his muscles don't work doesn't mean he can't think for himself.

It's like that super genius guy in the wheelchair who uses a robot to speak for him... His name escapes me atm
I mean no ones telling him he can't live, and he can barely lift a finger.
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#14
Quote by Scribbllez
BUT (you know I have to argue >_>
If his brain is working, he's a fully functioning human being, able to have emotions, opinions, feeling and everything. Just because his muscles don't work doesn't mean he can't think for himself.

It's like that super genius guy in the wheelchair who uses a robot to speak for him... His name escapes me atm
I mean no ones telling him he can't live, and he can barely lift a finger.


His name is Steven Hawkin and his internal organs support him, the child can't even support basic life functions.
#15
Quote by Scribbllez
BUT (you know I have to argue >_>
If his brain is working, he's a fully functioning human being, able to have emotions, opinions, feeling and everything. Just because his muscles don't work doesn't mean he can't think for himself.

It's like that super genius guy in the wheelchair who uses a robot to speak for him... His name escapes me atm
I mean no ones telling him he can't live, and he can barely lift a finger.



You mean Stephen Hawking? Difference is that Hawking can survive independently of ventilators and machines other than his wheelchair/voice thing.
#16
Tough question, really tough.


Can't say i'd let him die until I was positive he was only suffering. Just as when we all get older, and cannot move, and are laying in a hospital bed, quickly deforming and dying before our own very eyes..I would rather die than suffer that fate.
#17
Quote by JackalUK
His name is Steven Hawkin



I didnt know that monotonal voiced wheelchair bound freak was in the Darkness!
#18
I'd say cut him off. The child is going to live miserably for the rest of his life. A miserable life is one not worth living.
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#19
Quote by Sir-Shredalot
I didnt know that monotonal voiced wheelchair bound freak was in the Darkness!


That was Justin Hawkin
#21
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
You mean Stephen Hawking? Difference is that Hawking can survive independently of ventilators and machines other than his wheelchair/voice thing.



YES, him, thank you.
And good point, but then again, on the topic of "miserable life," how would he know it was miserable? He was born with the problem, he could adapt to it and lead a sufficient life for himself. Just because life would be miserable for us if we went through that doesn't mean it would be for him. He wouldn't know the difference.
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#22
Quote by woodenbandman
100 years ago people would've just dealt with this tragedy. Now, with life support, nobody has to deal with the fact that some times, stuff goes down and you have to deal with it.

Yeah, it sound cold, and yes, I would have a different opinion if I were personally affected by something like this. I'd wanna live, dammit, but that's just not how nature works.

+1
Before, people would have just died from diseases like this and it wasnt that big of a deal, but now, people are kept alive for years in comas, vegitative states, and other situations when youre basically traped in your body. Although if this happened to me, Id rather die than just lay in a hospital bed and just...do nothing for a lifetime.
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#23
If i were in that situation, i wouldn't want to live. That's a horrible way to live out your days.
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#24
Quote by Scribbllez
YES, him, thank you.
And good point, but then again, on the topic of "miserable life," how would he know it was miserable? He was born with the problem, he could adapt to it and lead a sufficient life for himself. Just because life would be miserable for us if we went through that doesn't mean it would be for him. He wouldn't know the difference.



Are you keeping this kid alive for his sake or your own then??
#25
I think it needs to be looked into further, how capable is he? Any procedures that might help? Or ways of at least getting him out of a hospital? If so, I think he should live, imo a miserable life is better than none.
#26
Quote by Scribbllez
YES, him, thank you.
And good point, but then again, on the topic of "miserable life," how would he know it was miserable? He was born with the problem, he could adapt to it and lead a sufficient life for himself. Just because life would be miserable for us if we went through that doesn't mean it would be for him. He wouldn't know the difference.



Who the hell are you to tell him he HAS to live? Also, potential never justifies current action. He COULD grow up to cause an accident that kills 50 people. Is that justification for his termination? Absolutely not. It works both ways.
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#27
Quote by sglover34479
I think it needs to be looked into further, how capable is he? Any procedures that might help? Or ways of at least getting him out of a hospital? If so, I think he should live, imo a miserable life is better than none.



As far as news reports are saying, the kid COULDN'T survive without all these machines AT ALL. There's nothing that they can really do that wouldn't put him through more pain.
#28
Kill the kid. Who has a right to life? There are too many humans on earth as there is, those on the borderline just turn he machine off.

More importantly i HATE how the press uses these catch prase names Baby P etc. HATE!
#30
Quote by Sir-Shredalot
Kill the kid. Who has a right to life? There are too many humans on earth as there is, those on the borderline just turn he machine off.

More importantly i HATE how the press uses these catch prase names Baby P etc. HATE!



The name Baby RB is a legal thing designed to protect his identity.
#31
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Are you keeping this kid alive for his sake or your own then??


Are you living for your own sake or someone elses?
Who are we to say he has no right to live?

Quote by Sir-Shredalot
Kill the kid. Who has a right to life? There are too many humans on earth as there is, those on the borderline just turn he machine off.

More importantly i HATE how the press uses these catch prase names Baby P etc. HATE!


You sir, are an ass.
If someone came into your home right now, told you you had no right to live, and shot you without even asking your opinion or consent, would you be pissed?
Slightly different circumstance, but still, same concept. We arrest murderers for a reason.
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Last edited by Scribbllez at Nov 10, 2009,
#32
Quote by Scribbllez

Who are we to say he has no right to live?

This should sum the whole argument up nicely. There are no realistic reasons that the baby would deserve to die.
#33
@ Fassa regarding identity: Yes, it's happened with many child abuse victims sadly.


Anyways, he has the right to live. He's a baby, we have no right to designate him towards death, or away from it. I can't think of a more challenging situation.

I was the parent, I would probably kiss him good night, and let him take his eternal slumber. He's more harm than human, and it's saddening to see a case like this even existing.
#34
Kill the bugger.


But anyway, I think it's so harsh to keep him alive as he'll never be able to play guitar or come into the pit.
#35
Quote by Scribbllez
Are you living for your own sake or someone elses?
Who are we to say he has no right to live?



No,what I am saying is:

Are we keeping him alive because he is capable of recovery/some sort of adapted ability to live?

OR

Are we keeping alive simply to satiate the wishes of two parents who up until now couldn't bear to admit he would have died without the medical equipment we now have?


Sounds like the second option for me.
#36
Quote by Sir-Shredalot
Kill the kid. Who has a right to life? There are too many humans on earth as there is, those on the borderline just turn he machine off.

More importantly i HATE how the press uses these catch prase names Baby P etc. HATE!





Truly true Sir
#38
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
No,what I am saying is:

Are we keeping him alive because he is capable of recovery/some sort of adapted ability to live?

OR

Are we keeping alive simply to satiate the wishes of two parents who up until now couldn't bear to admit he would have died without the medical equipment we now have?


Sounds like the second option for me.


My bad, I misunderstood.
It's probably the second, you're right, but that doesn't mean the first option isn't/shouldn't be considered.
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Yes, it is then!

You are truly a god among men.


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Dear Scribbllez I Googled it my good sir,
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#40
Quote by Scribbllez
Are you living for your own sake or someone elses?
Who are we to say he has no right to live?


You sir, are an ass.
If someone came into your home right now, told you you had no right to live, and shot you without even asking your opinion or consent, would you be pissed?
Slightly different circumstance, but still, same concept. We arrest murderers for a reason.


Retarded comparison. Pointless retorting, but if i was on a life support machine with hardly any hope of survival i would be happy to die. And i would be happy to turn your or your parents life machine off bro.
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