#1
Okay, well I have been teaching myself music theory for a little while now. So I was wondering if anybody could correct me on anything if I am wrong.

I'm just gonna list some things I know (or think).

Major Scale Formula: WWHWWWH
Minor Scale Formula: WHWWHWW

To make a Natural Minor into a Harmonic Minor you make the 7th note the same as it would be if it was in it's major counter-part.
To make a Natural Minor into a Melodic Minor you make the 6th and 7th the same as it would be like if it was it's major counter-part.

Triad - a chord with three pitches.

Some of the most common chords used to harmonize with a piece of music are the I IV and the V7 chords.

ex. C Major

I-C E G
IV- F A C
V7 G B C E

I know chord inversions but I don't have a staff to use.

A minor chord is when the third pitch is dropped down a half step.

An augmented chord would be one like:

ex. C Major

C E G turned into C E G#

Diminished is:

C E G turned into C E Gb

So is anything I have mentioned wrong? If so please correct me.
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Erowid
Last edited by RockGuitar92 at Nov 12, 2009,
#2
^ seems like you have a good handle on it....

except C dim = C Eb Gb

minor triad with a lowered 5th
shred is gaudy music
#3
With the melodic minor I think your 6th degree flattens again on the way down.
So if you play through the scale it has a sharpened 6th and 7th, then on the way back down only the 7th is raised.
I may be wrong though =/
#4
Quote by GuitarMunky
^ seems like you have a good handle on it....

except C dim = C Eb Gb

minor triad with a lowered 5th


Okay so a diminished is a variation of a minor where the 5th is lowered a half step as well? I'm thinking it as a progression.

Major Minor Diminished

C E G then C Eb G then C Eb Gb
Quote by Tyler Durden
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#5
Exactly. And augmented is on the other side of C major, with a raised fifth.

C E G# <- C E G -> C Eb G -> C Eb Gb
#6
Alright. I understand. Most of the music theory I have learned is relative to the piano so it makes things like chords and what not a little easier to understand because of how some chords are constructed on the guitar.
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#7
The V7 of C (G7) is G B D F. You're a step early on the 5th and 7th degrees of it.
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#8
Quote by whoomit
With the melodic minor I think your 6th degree flattens again on the way down.
So if you play through the scale it has a sharpened 6th and 7th, then on the way back down only the 7th is raised.
I may be wrong though =/
You're partially right. Ascending it is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 8ve and descending it is 8ve b7 b6 5 4 b3 2 1.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
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#9
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
The V7 of C (G7) is G B D F. You're a step early on the 5th and 7th degrees of it.


My bad I was thinking of letters and not intervals.
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#10
doesn't a Diminished triad have a diminished 5th, not a minor 5th?
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#11
Quote by Wayne637
doesn't a Diminished triad have a diminished 5th, not a minor 5th?


I fixed it in a different post. A diminished would be like C Eb Gb
Quote by Tyler Durden
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

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#12
Quote by Wayne637
doesn't a Diminished triad have a diminished 5th, not a minor 5th?


There is no such thing as a minor fifth. When you alter a perfect interval, it becomes diminished (lowered) or augmented (raised) like so:

Diminished <- Perfect -> Augmented

Diminished <- Minor <- Major -> Augmented

The arrows pointing left mean it is a half step below the previous interval, the arrows to the right mean it is a half step above the previous interval.
#13
What kinds of things should I work on next? I have a very basic knowledge of modes but I'm not gonna mess with them until later. So, I ask again, what other types of things should I learn now? Sus chords? Diatonic chords? Etc...?
Quote by Tyler Durden
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

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#14
Quote by RockGuitar92
What kinds of things should I work on next? I have a very basic knowledge of modes but I'm not gonna mess with them until later. So, I ask again, what other types of things should I learn now? Sus chords? Diatonic chords? Etc...?

Music


learn some songs.... use what you know to make sense of them. Recognizing the concepts in the context of music is where you will really benefit from studying theory.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 12, 2009,
#16
Quote by GuitarMunky
Music


learn some songs.... use what you know to make sense of them. Recognizing the concepts in the context of music is where you will really benefit from studying theory.

Well I've been playing guitar for a few years and I understand a lot of it just by looking back at songs I know. Most of the theory I know can be attributed to my piano playing though.
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Erowid
#17
Quote by RockGuitar92
stuff he knows


Looks all good. Here's some things that popped into my head when reading your post.

You talk about the major and minor scales and how to make the harmonic minor and melodic minor. You use the words "it's major counterpart". The term you're looking for is "parallel major".

So when a scale has the same tonic note they are "Parallel" scales.
E.G.
the "parallel minor" scale of C major is C minor.

Another term is "Relative". This means the scales share the same notes but have a different tonic.
E.G. the "relative minor" scale of C major is A minor.

A triad is a note with three notes and is built by stacking Major and minor thirds. It's not just any chord with three notes.

For example C major is a triad because the three notes are C E G. C to E is a major third and E to G is a minor third.

C minor is a triad because the three notes are C E♭ G. C to E♭ is a minor third and E♭ to G is a major third.

C Augmented is a triad because the three notes are C E G♯. C to E is a major third and E to G♯ is a major third.

C diminished is a triad because the three notes are C E♭ G♭. C to E♭ is a minor third and E♭ to G♭ is a minor third.

There are only four triads. (Though not everyone is in agreement on this - there are some who use the term to refer to any chord made of notes. But this way really clicked for me, allowing me to better understand and mentally organize chord structure and chord construction, so I thought I'd share it with you.)

Next step - seventh chords, and chord substitution. - Of course like GuitarMunkey said you always need to listen to and practice MUSIC.
Si
#18
Quote by 20Tigers
Looks all good. Here's some things that popped into my head when reading your post.

You talk about the major and minor scales and how to make the harmonic minor and melodic minor. You use the words "it's major counterpart". The term you're looking for is "parallel major".

So when a scale has the same tonic note they are "Parallel" scales.
E.G.
the "parallel minor" scale of C major is C minor.

Another term is "Relative". This means the scales share the same notes but have a different tonic.
E.G. the "relative minor" scale of C major is A minor.

A triad is a note with three notes and is built by stacking Major and minor thirds. It's not just any chord with three notes.

For example C major is a triad because the three notes are C E G. C to E is a major third and E to G is a minor third.

C minor is a triad because the three notes are C E♭ G. C to E♭ is a minor third and E♭ to G is a major third.

C Augmented is a triad because the three notes are C E G♯. C to E is a major third and E to G♯ is a major third.

C diminished is a triad because the three notes are C E♭ G♭. C to E♭ is a minor third and E♭ to G♭ is a minor third.

There are only four triads. (Though not everyone is in agreement on this - there are some who use the term to refer to any chord made of notes. But this way really clicked for me, allowing me to better understand and mentally organize chord structure and chord construction, so I thought I'd share it with you.)

Next step - seventh chords, and chord substitution. - Of course like GuitarMunkey said you always need to listen to and practice MUSIC.

I know I wasn't as thorough in what I listed as I could of been but I do realize what you said about triads. Thanks for the vocabulary. Like I said before though, I practice this stuff on the piano. I'll do guitar a little bit later.
Quote by Tyler Durden
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

Erowid
#19
Quote by RockGuitar92
I know I wasn't as thorough in what I listed as I could of been but I do realize what you said about triads. Thanks for the vocabulary. Like I said before though, I practice this stuff on the piano. I'll do guitar a little bit later.

I don't know why you keep saying that. Theory is universal. There isn't piano theory and guitar theory. There's just music theory.
Quote by dudetheman
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#20
Quote by 20Tigers

A triad is a note with three notes and is built by stacking Major and minor thirds. It's not just any chord with three notes.


I don't want to sound like too much of a jerk, but that's false. Inverted triads are triads. C-E-G with 10ths instead of 3rds is still a C major triad. There's all kinds of ways to build a triad. You're talking about closed position triads.

Also, I believe you refer to the four main triads as the only four triads. A C-F-Bb is a triad as well, because it has three notes. That's all it takes. Would TS need to know this? No, but that doesn't mean he should learn it one way then learn it another later on.

TS, he's right about the 4 main triads. They aren't the only ones, but don't worry about that until...well, you may never need that.
#21
^ Yeah inverted triads are still triads. I never meant to say they weren't - but I can see how you might think it was implied. And I pointed out that not everybody uses the term in this same way.

Inverted triads are still built by stacking thirds, then they are inverted by putting a note or two in the next octave. Regardless of their inversion; if the root is moved up an octave it is still the root the third is still third and the fifth is still the fifth.

C F B♭ is not a triad. That is the difference I was trying to make. C F B♭ is maybe a shell voicing of a C7sus4 or possibly an Fsus4/C (C F A♯.

Sus chords are not triads, they're suspended chords where the third is suspended for a fourth or second degree. It doesn't have a third.

I found it beneficial to think of a triad as specific type of chord with three notes - not just any three notes played together. Since most western music uses tertian harmony and the chord names, and construction of other chords pretty much exist as extensions, alterations, suspensions using one of these four chords as a starting point it made sense to me.

I thought I did point out though, and you certainly have, not everybody uses the term "triad" in the same way. Similarly not everyone uses it the same way you do.

Some use the term as I do and might use the term "trichord" as a chord made of just three notes. (Which would make a triad a type of trichord).

Other's use the term as you do - simply to mean any three notes played together.

In most general discussion, explanation, or teaching about triads though it will almost always just teach the four triads major minor diminished augmented and inversions of them.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Nov 13, 2009,
#22
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
I don't know why you keep saying that. Theory is universal. There isn't piano theory and guitar theory. There's just music theory.

I keep saying that because it's different when you apply it to different instruments. A guitar is played different from a piano. A piano is just better organized as a visual. Besides when you look up things to teach you music theory it is done in keyboard form.
Quote by Tyler Durden
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

Erowid
Last edited by RockGuitar92 at Nov 13, 2009,