#1
I have just finished the electronics of the Fender Tweed Deluxe 5E3. Turned it on, made sure everything is ok, and gave it a crank. I have sound, though a bit muddy and low (inputs, OT?) everything is working fine.

I posted a video on youtube to further illustrate my success:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0k-8y2ucQ

I'd just like to thank everyone who had helped me out on the Fender Harvard, as well as this amp , and pictures in a moment.
#2

Circuit board


When I first got the amp chassis


First drilling the holes/adding the front to it


Layout I used


Tube side of the Chassis


Everything in place except for the PT. I have it hanging off the side not knowing if I'd need another PT or not.


Another view of the chassis.

I still have to take a very clear, detailed picture of this amp, but just to show you a bit of what I was doing. While building this, I took a peek at kurtlives91's build of it as a template.

Thank you to all that is/has/will help me out with my Amp builds. Here's notch one of a hopefully lengthy list of builds.

Question though: can anyone tell me the reason to that sound though, if it's inputs, if it's the OT, both, something else?......
#3
First off: YAY! You have built your first (working) amplifier. It's not working how you want yet, but you are almost there! Congrats and I hope to see more from you.

It's not the OT, and it's (probably) not the input.

I'm about to go to sleep, but I'll try to get a few questions out of the way to have something to think on.

1. Do you have any chopsticks? (serious question, here) If not, go get some. You only need 1, but they come in pairs.

2. Next, are your heaters wired up like how they are in your layout? If so, you'll want to change that. (You might want a couple 100 ohm 2w resistors to get rid of hum, but that isn't necessary at this point)

3. This one will be annoying and I apologize now, but can you take some readings? I'd like to know DC voltages for all of the following:

Pins 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, and 8 of the 12AX7s. (There doesn't need to be a tube in there, but if you can get readings with tubes, that'd be nice).

Pins 3, 4, 5, and 8 of the 6v6s. (Once again, w/o a tube is fine, but with is better).

Pins 4, 6, and 8 of the 5Y3.

DC readings of your main filter caps.

4. (Once again sorry). AC reading this time, but there are less.

AC across pins 4 and 9 of the 12AX7s (put one lead of your tester on pin 4 and the other on 9).

AC across pins 2 and 7 of the 6v6s (put one lead on pin 2 and the other on 7).

AC across pins 2 and 8 of the 5y3 (put one lead on pin 2 and the other on 8).


With this information and a chopstick, I think we can find your problem. I'll try to help out more tomorrow, bed time now.
#4
Quote by end_citizen
First off: YAY! You have built your first (working) amplifier. It's not working how you want yet, but you are almost there! Congrats and I hope to see more from you.

It's not the OT, and it's (probably) not the input.

I'm about to go to sleep, but I'll try to get a few questions out of the way to have something to think on.

1. Do you have any chopsticks? (serious question, here) If not, go get some. You only need 1, but they come in pairs.

2. Next, are your heaters wired up like how they are in your layout? If so, you'll want to change that. (You might want a couple 100 ohm 2w resistors to get rid of hum, but that isn't necessary at this point)

3. This one will be annoying and I apologize now, but can you take some readings? I'd like to know DC voltages for all of the following:

Pins 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, and 8 of the 12AX7s. (There doesn't need to be a tube in there, but if you can get readings with tubes, that'd be nice).

Pins 3, 4, 5, and 8 of the 6v6s. (Once again, w/o a tube is fine, but with is better).

Pins 4, 6, and 8 of the 5Y3.

DC readings of your main filter caps.

4. (Once again sorry). AC reading this time, but there are less.

AC across pins 4 and 9 of the 12AX7s (put one lead of your tester on pin 4 and the other on 9).

AC across pins 2 and 7 of the 6v6s (put one lead on pin 2 and the other on 7).

AC across pins 2 and 8 of the 5y3 (put one lead on pin 2 and the other on 8).


With this information and a chopstick, I think we can find your problem. I'll try to help out more tomorrow, bed time now.


Chopsticks? explanation por favor.

As for your readings, all will be fulfilled manana.
#5
The chopstick is so you can move something that looks questionable while the circuit is live. You can then hear any change without getting killed

I (assumingly) understand that you are in the same boat as me and that your only camera is your webcam. But could you try to get some clean close-up shots around the 12AX7s and the 6V6s?

Also, check your profile for a friends request

EDIT:

I'd like to point out that you'd want a wooden chopstick. Nothing conductive.

RE-EDIT:
I'm pasting your power tranformer specs here, so I don't have to go between threads. If you can give a link to your output transformer, it'd be appreciated:

http://www.magneticcomponents.net/40-18016_Rev_A_Stock.pdf
Last edited by end_citizen at Nov 13, 2009,
#6
Quote by end_citizen
The chopstick is so you can move something that looks questionable while the circuit is live. You can then hear any change without getting killed

I (assumingly) understand that you are in the same boat as me and that your only camera is your webcam. But could you try to get some clean close-up shots around the 12AX7s and the 6V6s?

Also, check your profile for a friends request

EDIT:

I'd like to point out that you'd want a wooden chopstick. Nothing conductive.

RE-EDIT:
I'm pasting your power tranformer specs here, so I don't have to go between threads. If you can give a link to your output transformer, it'd be appreciated:

http://www.magneticcomponents.net/40-18016_Rev_A_Stock.pdf


ok. Yes I do have chopsticks (all wood at that). at the moment, yes my only option is a webcam at the moment. hopefully that changes black friday but i'll try to get some close ups. currently doing the tests.

And checking your friend request now
#7
I tried to get the readings, and some of them i did get, but alot of them i either couldn't get to or I couldn't get a reading and some of them I just got a nice blue spark(didn't pass though me or anything, but that was a little bit worrying). Here's what I did get:

DC readings of Filter caps:

1. 347
2. 267
3. 217

12ax7:

# is for pin, followed by colon and reading.

1. 224
2.
3. 4
4.
5.
6. 238
7.
8. 3

12AY7

1. 126
2-8: couldn't get (some sparked, some too close to each other to get contact)

1st 6v6:
3: 358
4. 308
5. 0 (no reading prob)
8. 23

didn't do 2nd 6v6

No AC readings at all, no DC for 5Y3

so....where do we (especially I) go from here?
#8
I'm still having a problem with the volume. It comes through faint even with the volume cranked all the way up on my guitar/amp. Is it how i wired it? Picture coming soon.

EDIT: Here's a crude picture from paint on how I wired the speaker jacks. Please tell me if this is right, and if not how can I fix this.

(Invalid img)
Attachments:
Speaker Jack Wiring.jpg
Last edited by tbc4491 at Nov 15, 2009,
#9
Sorry I disappeared for the weekend, but I'm back now.

All your reading look right, but I never saw your paint pic.

Also, I need a link to your output transformer. I'm thinking you've got the phase backwards, but I can't tell until I know how your output transformer is wired.


EDIT:

The tip of your output jack should be wired to the tip of your ext. speaker jack.
Last edited by end_citizen at Nov 15, 2009,
#10
Ok so I finally got new tubes to try this out. Although when I turned it on, the 5k resistor blew. I know from the Harvard amplifier that when the 470 ohm blew, Something was figured out and was replaced at a higher value (220k i think). How were they able to come up with that and is there a higher value resistor that I can'put in?
#11
Ok so I finally got new tubes to try this out. Although when I turned it on, the 5k resistor blew. I know from the Harvard amplifier that when the 470 ohm blew, Something was figured out and was replaced at a higher value (220k i think). How were they able to come up with that and is there a higher value resistor that I can'put in?
#12
I got everything up and running. Replaced the 5k resistor with a 100k resistor and fired it up. Everything worked except for two things:

1. The Bright Channels didn't have a sound. Not as important to me right now as the Normal side works. Will have to rewire it later.

2. The sound still comes out fuzzy. I've narrowed it down to Pin 7 on the amplifier being the problem, as when I move it a little to the side, the sound comes through clear as a bell. However, after I move it over to that side, the sound goes right back to doing its normal thing. I've messed with it so much that the ceramic siding has broken off.

Please help me on how I can fix this. I've been using the chopstick method but it hasn't worked as well as I wanted it too.
#13
Well it's been awhile and a lot has happened. I've built the 5E3 case that goes with the amp, and everything else is set up. I'm still waiting on the tolex and grillcloth that I ordered.

The only thing that has been still messing up on me is the 12ax7 socket. The sound comes in really faint, almost like the volume is down really low. When I use the chopsticks and move around a few pins (6 & 7 mainly), the sound jumps to what it should be. I've tried everything I knew with my very limited knowledge. What else could it be?

EDIT: I posted photos along the way showing the progress on facebook. Here is the link, including the case I made for it included HERE . The pictures got considerably better in quality as I finally got a Nikon digital camera.
Last edited by tbc4491 at Dec 9, 2009,
#15
Quote by kurtlives91
Cold solder joint or a bad connection.

Reflow and recheck your joints on the socket as well as wires leading to the socket.


i've done all of that so many times but still the same results. Is there another reason to this happening?
#16
It sounds to me like either:

a) Cold solder joint/ bad connecton

or

b) One of these pins is touching something else. They could be touching each other.

Since you got the new camera, could you get some nice pics of the troublesome socket?
#17
You say you can find the issue when chop sticking. Then surely you know what wire is giving you the issue then.

Trace the signal along that wire. You could have some freak of a bug happening.
broken wire making intermediate contact, cold joint, leaky coupling cap, bad part, etc.

If you have a signal tester you could try injecting a signal into the input and find exactly where your problem lies.
#18
still having the same problems.

Made another video with the status of my amp.

here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5GSWGxnkII


EDIT: Just realized something. Would the sound problem be due to the fact that I have a 15 watt output transformer instead of a 25 watt output transformer? Because if so, then I think that's the problem.
Last edited by tbc4491 at Dec 22, 2009,
#19
It's been some time later, and got a new output transformer a few days ago. Only, the sound is still just like when I had the other one in: low and distorted. i'm wondering now if it's the way I hooked up the speaker jacks.

Here is the schematic that came with my output transformer:



And how I've wired it:



Can anyone tell me if this is right?
#21
Quote by kurtlives91
Get better pics.

Where is that yellow wire going, tip?
The second jack should have it's sleeve connected to the black OT's lead.


I'm trying Chris. my camera is trying to do the best it can.

Yes, at the moment, the wire is going tip to tip.
In regards to the black lead, it was fed through ok though right? And I just have to extend it over to the other jack?

Would this explain the low, muddy sound coming out of the jack?
#23
Quote by kurtlives91
No it would not.

You need some clear pics of the board.













#25
Dude you have shorts left right and centre (maybe I am loosing it, but there seem to be a lot of shorts). Your soldering isn't what I'd call grade A either.

Msg me sometime and Ill point out a few things.
#26
Would you be able to tell me where exactly are the shorts? I know you said there are a lot of them, and I know you're probably right and not loosing it, but If you could take the pics and maybe circle or highlight the areas, it would be much appreciated. You've helped me out a lot so far, and I hope that continues.

The one picture with the several grounds on top of each other, is that one of the areas? Cause when I first did that, I was thinking that it probably wasn't right, but I wasn't sure.
#27
Ok, so after the private chat with Chris, I've fixed all he told me (I had two wrong parts and I cleaned up the soldering on my tube sockets). I fired it up and it was definitely a BIG help. However a few things still remain:

1. The sound coming out of the speaker is still distorted. The Volume knobs/tone knobs could be half way, and it still sounds very distorted.

2. When I turn the pots, I hear a bit of crackling while turning. Reasons?

Otherwise, I'm almost there!
#28
1. The Tweed Deluxe doesn't have a ton of headroom. Without hearing your amp in person I'd say this is normal. GO try out Fender's crappy reissue and see if it is similar. I will say this, tube selection in this amp is vital. A lot of tonal changes and the effect of headroom can change by swapping tubes.

2. Clean your pots. Spray some contact cleaner in them and then rotate the shaft. If this doesn't fix it you'll have to check your signal caps for DC voltage. I can explain that later if the cleaning doesn't work.
#29
Hello everyone,

Here's my update: I am getting sound out of the Deluxe. A lot clearer than the last time due to a complete resoldering of the tube sockets. However, although it's a lot clearer, Whenever I play on the lower strings, it gets really muddy. also when I try to play chords (especially A-style chords), You hear almost a phase-like sound in the background, like some of the notes was replicated and phazed out. Any help?

BTW, I thought that this may be the 9-pin sockets still but I'm still not sure. So I took some readings:



Any suggestions/help?
#30
I think you've got DC on the volume pot; which of course is connected to the grid (pin 2) of V2. Make sure the 0.1uF caps before the volumes aren't leaking DC.

Unfortunately it sounds like there could be more problems.

Also, which wires are your heaters? They should be neatly twisted, and put out of the way.
#31
hi guys

yup i think he's rite V1 pin no2 should not have any dc voltage on it. and palte voltage for 12ay7 a bit low , compare to 12ax7
#32
Ok then....what other problem do you think there are? i feel like I'm so close, but yet so far.....
#33
hey u have this working yet? the DC reading u posted there is crazy.

u have a 12AY7 for the first gain stage for each input, then a 12AX7 for the cathodyne phase inverter right?

the 12AY7's cathodes should be connected... pin 3 and 8. should have the same reading, around 2v? then pin 2 and 7 are the grid, and that should have 0vDC. pin 1 and 6 seem ok, but it should be around the same values, since same anode resistors are used, it shares a cathode resistor, etc.

i'll assume you used pin 1, 2, and 3 for the driving stage in ur PI. if so, they sound somewhat logical, except for the cathode at 0.7vDC... this won't give you much headroom would it?

and pin 6, 7, 8... i can't really comment on it because i've never designed with a cathodyne PI yet...
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#34
Quote by ECistheBest
hey u have this working yet? the DC reading u posted there is crazy.

u have a 12AY7 for the first gain stage for each input, then a 12AX7 for the cathodyne phase inverter right?

the 12AY7's cathodes should be connected... pin 3 and 8. should have the same reading, around 2v? then pin 2 and 7 are the grid, and that should have 0vDC. pin 1 and 6 seem ok, but it should be around the same values, since same anode resistors are used, it shares a cathode resistor, etc.

i'll assume you used pin 1, 2, and 3 for the driving stage in ur PI. if so, they sound somewhat logical, except for the cathode at 0.7vDC... this won't give you much headroom would it?

and pin 6, 7, 8... i can't really comment on it because i've never designed with a cathodyne PI yet...



Yeah I have both of my amps working now. I'll try to update these threads when I get home today; got work in a few hours
#35
oh ok, nice. did you measure your voltages again? i wanna kno. haha hows it sound? does it sound nice and farty like a tweed should?
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#36
Quote by ECistheBest
oh ok, nice. did you measure your voltages again? i wanna kno. haha hows it sound? does it sound nice and farty like a tweed should?


I put a DJ speaker in this amp cause it was the only speaker I had around that was 8 ohm, so it has a lot of bass in it (which I like anyways) so it's not a true Tweed. I ended up sending it to Bob up at DST engineering where he ended up getting my amp up (a lot of grounding issues and a few mistakes in parts.)

When I got it back, I just plugged it in and played; I didn't remeasure voltages or anything.

My amp handles pedals really well, and the sound is really balanced out of it. It plays well with my partscaster.

The only sound clip that I have right now for it is off my original song, "Starting Over". My guitar (main rhythm) is the one using the Tweed; all the rest was recorded off of a Deluxe Reverb. you can here that HERE .