#1
i want to hear your thoughts on this.

"who you are" or how you are perceived is a function of attitude and behavior. your behavior reflects your attitude, and vise versa. now, those two things, your attitude and behavior, are CONSTANTLY being reshaped, whether you like it or not, by external conditions. what you experience is determined solely by environmental and genetic factors, and you learn (what you may think is) the correct way to behave based on the consequence of a behavior (aka operant conditioning).

we are not absolute, our beliefs are constantly being challenged as well as our attitudes and behavior as a result of conflicting norms. we are an amalgamation of our own experiences, products of outside conditions, and highly static.

so then here's the question: can you really blame anyone, for anything?
Last edited by Arthur Curry at Nov 13, 2009,
#3
Yeah, I can.
Quote by ChadLikesGuitar
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#5
ac's my favorite band in the galaxy but no they are not compassion..although most definitely compassionate.
#8
Quote by Arthur Curry
haha yeah man, i love it. it's applicable to...everything

Try applying it to quantum theory.
Or, you know, actual science.
#9
Uh.... Nobody believes 100% behaviorism anymore dude. Just sayin.

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


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#10
Quote by Arthur Curry
so then here's the question: can you really blame anyone, for anything?


Er... why wouldn't you?
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#11
I just walked out of my sociology class too..

Took a test on deviance, actually.

And to answer you, yes.
I can and I do.
froosh has my heart

You are electric?


You love me.
#12
Even though we are shaped by our environment and external stimuli all the time, we still have a choice on how we respond to them. So yes, we can be held applicable for anything we do. We may be constantly changing, but that doesn't mean we aren't responsible for our reaction to that change.
#13
Quote by monk888
Even though we are shaped by our environment and external stimuli all the time, we still have a choice on how we respond to them. So yes, we can be held applicable for anything we do. We may be constantly changing, but that doesn't mean we aren't responsible for our reaction to that change.


i agree that we have a choice, but our choices, too, are influenced by past experiences. our dispositions don't just some how arrive automatically (?) even if they were genetically derived, the genes we inherit are static and subject to experiences of individuals over time, aren't they? i know next to nothing about genetics.

obviously i'm no ****ing scientist, guys. i'm just interested in understanding other people's beliefs and perspectives. clearly you shouldn't take my thoughts seriously since i'm using words you heard in psychology class.

if you disagree, please qualify your disagreement. i just think that, provided you were somehow in someone else's position, having lived through the same things and all, you would behave the exact way they do. i have trouble holding things against people for that reason.

maybe it's a bit extreme, but i think there is at least some truth in it. so there ya go.
Last edited by Arthur Curry at Nov 13, 2009,
#14
Quote by MightyAl

Or, you know, actual science.



Well, determinism is a fundamentally scientific idea, so I don't see any problem there.


Quote by MightyAl
Try applying it to quantum theory.


+1, wave particle duality and superimposed states ftw.
#15
I blame everybody for anything, especially if I'm the one who is to blame in the first place.
Last edited by Turkeyburger at Nov 13, 2009,
#16
Quote by Arthur Curry
i want to hear your thoughts on this.

"who you are" or how you are perceived is a function of attitude and behavior. your behavior reflects your attitude, and vise versa. now, those two things, your attitude and behavior, are CONSTANTLY being reshaped, whether you like it or not, by external conditions. what you experience is determined solely by environmental and genetic factors, and you learn (what you may think is) the correct way to behave based on the consequence of a behavior (aka operant conditioning).

we are not absolute, our beliefs are constantly being challenged as well as our attitudes and behavior as a result of conflicting norms. we are an amalgamation of our own experiences, products of outside conditions, and highly static.

so then here's the question: can you really blame anyone, for anything?


Now that you mention it, I think about this all the time. Especially in relationship terms with people (girlfriends) and when things happen..not necessarily because anyone is at fault..but rather "it's the fault of the situation."

In this case, you are left with nowhere to place the blame, it's just "how things turned out." And I personally find this even more frustrating because you have nowere/one to direct/vent your frustration at. So it feels like a type of repression.

Although I think it depends on the situation, but the ones like I just described...argh.
Last edited by technicolour at Nov 13, 2009,
#17
Quote by technicolour
Now that you mention it, I think about this all the time. Especially in relationship terms with people (girlfriends) and when things happen..not necessarily because anyone is at fault..but rather "it's the fault of the situation."

In this case, you are left with nowhere to place the blame, it's just "how things turned out." And I personally find this even more frustrating because you have nowere/one to direct/vent your frustration at. So it feels like a type of repression.


yeah, i guess that sorta explains the "fundamental attribution error"..another nice term for you guys. we tend to attribute people's actions to their character, when really it has a lot more to do with situational influences. i guess people just need a place to put their frustrations? people suck
#18
Quote by Arthur Curry
i want to hear your thoughts on this.

"who you are" or how you are perceived is a function of attitude and behavior. your behavior reflects your attitude, and vise versa. now, those two things, your attitude and behavior, are CONSTANTLY being reshaped, whether you like it or not, by external conditions. what you experience is determined solely by environmental and genetic factors, and you learn (what you may think is) the correct way to behave based on the consequence of a behavior (aka operant conditioning).

we are not absolute, our beliefs are constantly being challenged as well as our attitudes and behavior as a result of conflicting norms. we are an amalgamation of our own experiences, products of outside conditions, and highly static.

so then here's the question: can you really blame anyone, for anything?



I dunno bout that to be honest. Take these two examples

1. In the 70's, seatbelts were made compulsory in ireland. As a result of this the driver was "safer" and was therefore more inclined to take risks while driving i.e high speeds etc. Taking ths with operant conditioning. The drivers already knew that high speeds were dangerous, yet still took the risk becasue they themselves were safer, despite the fact that the number of crashes around the country had risen along with the number of pedestrian casualties. So, i would blame those drivers for taking risks and causing deaths.

2. Since the recession came into swing, crime has been rising exponentially. A lot of these criminals, were not so, before the recession, but as a result of it, they turn to to crime to make ends meet. Still, they know its wrong, and while you might say that the recession is forcing them to commit crime, there are ways to earn money legally, crime just seems like the easy option. So these people know what they are doing is wrong, and there alternatives (albeit more difficult ones) available, so yes, i would blame these people too.
#20
Quote by Arthur Curry
so then here's the question: can you really blame anyone, for anything?


A good question, I've been thinking about it recently. When I was what, 16 (a year and a half ago) I kinda started to learn (or some might say think) that our environment causes us to be who we are more than anything else. I still firmly believe this but it's a tough question. In a way I think it's hard to blame people for some things especially when they've grown up in messed up conditions and stuff like that but at the same time I'm not sure if a world were no one is held responsible for anything could possibly work well. The best solution I think is educate (not academically but problem solving in real life situations and what not) people and do our best to create an environment that is sound and is going to give people as many opportunities as possible.

/babble about crap.
#21
Quote by jimmy_neutron
I dunno bout that to be honest. Take these two examples

1. In the 70's, seatbelts were made compulsory in ireland. As a result of this the driver was "safer" and was therefore more inclined to take risks while driving i.e high speeds etc. Taking ths with operant conditioning. The drivers already knew that high speeds were dangerous, yet still took the risk becasue they themselves were safer, despite the fact that the number of crashes around the country had risen along with the number of pedestrian casualties. So, i would blame those drivers for taking risks and causing deaths.

2. Since the recession came into swing, crime has been rising exponentially. A lot of these criminals, were not so, before the recession, but as a result of it, they turn to to crime to make ends meet. Still, they know its wrong, and while you might say that the recession is forcing them to commit crime, there are ways to earn money legally, crime just seems like the easy option. So these people know what they are doing is wrong, and there alternatives (albeit more difficult ones) available, so yes, i would blame these people too.


yes, in each of these cases, people make conscious decisions that have horrible consequences, but my point is that our decisions are multiply determined, not just by the conditions correlated with them (i.e. the seat belt mandate, the recession) but also by each individual's personal history. Crime may have been precipitated by the recession, but their attitudes and lack of moral values had probably been long since in place. if they are committing acts of violence, they are conditioned to do so, since it becomes a "fact of life" as it were in an urban environment. the same can be applied to scenario number one, and any scenario, really.

our character is attributed to interpersonal relationships. i'm not saying we shouldn't react to the behavior of others or "let it slide" or something -- how we respond will partly decide how that person will act later on, but we should take into account the possible reasons that person is doing what they're doing, so as to respond productively.
Last edited by Arthur Curry at Nov 17, 2009,
#22
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The only advantage of home-schooling is that it gives you good reason to commit suicide.


Hit this once or twice, and you'll be twice as nice.