#1
Hey guys i'm still fairly new to the world of high end amps so I need your advice. I'm after a nice medium gain rock crunch similar to AFI's sound on Sing The Sorrow (at work so can't provide links)

I understand that Jade the guitarist used a Mesa of some kind and a Marshall Plexi (maybe a 59' I don't know). Now if I were made of money i'd run out and grab a hand wired vintage Marshall but I know that there are a lot of good Plexi clones out there and I was wondering if you guys could recommend some that could get close to that tone, specifically "The Leaving Song Part 2"

Current gear can be found in sig and the rest in profile. I'm ideally like to keep it below $2500 AUD if possible. I'm also looking into a modded Bugera 333XL as I will obviously need a nice pronounced midrange. Thanks!
Last edited by AxSilentxLine at Nov 15, 2009,
#2
I'm a little confused as to why you think a plexi would suit - plexis aren't modern high gain amps - by modern standards they have very little gain and it needs to be pushed HARD to come out. I don't know the song, but it sounds to me like you are looking at something like a splawn (essentially a hot rodded Marshall) or maybe a JCM800/JCM900
#5
Quote by False_God
A Marshall DSL50/100 would get you close enough to he's sound.


Yeah i've actually been mesing around a lot lately with the DSL/TSL range specifically the DSL 50 and TSL 60 and also a JVM205H
#7
^
yup in that video it seems there using rectifiers though
but the dsl 50 will definately get close to that tone
Gear
Ibanez SAS32EXFM White
Epiphone SG G400 White
Line 6 Flextone III+
Line 6 Spider III 120 (for sale £90)
#8
maybe look into a jcm900. i'm pretty sure there are heaps of em used around the place. personally i think they drive nicer then the dsl. the mind your head song in my profile is recored with a jcm900, it can definately get a heap heavier then that though. a while ago i was looking around of a hot rodded marshall type amp and splawn definately was my first choice if i could get the money, got over that phase though. if you can somehow get your hands on a splawn they also have mains voltage selection so you can bring one in from america if you want and plug it straight in. no need for a transformer.
#9
Hey joe yeh i've looked at the JCM900 but have yet to plug into one i'm also considering a Vox AC50 head because I want a british crunch with nice warm cleans as well and really don't want to get another high gain head as I already have the Peavey
#10
Quote by AxSilentxLine
Yeah the Plexi Jade used was modded from memory and i'm not after a modern high gain sound i'll leave that to my 6505+ back from work now so here's a link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g48BtaKt6X8

As you can tell it is by no means t3h br00talz that i'm after just a nice fat round middy crunch
that sounds nothing like a plexi, and I'm not really sure I would call a plexi "fat and round" it'd really describe it more as... bright, grinding and syrupy.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 15, 2009,
#12
I'm not really sure a plexi is what you want. I really suggest you find out what one actually sounds like first. The problem is that if you want that modern rock tone... a 50 watt plexi is not going to stay together when you push it the amount you need to get the kind of gain you're talking about. The low end will start to flub out really badly and the amp will become saggy and undefined, a 100 watt super lead will stay together when pushed and be clearer, tighter and more defined, but at the same time, it will literally blow the roof off your house. I have never once in my life heard a louder amp than a 100 watt super lead.

Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR3Os80p0u4

that's a 50 watter, and you can hear the low end starting to flub out a little bit when he picks the lower strings hard and the amp isn't even cranked all the way when he plays the Crossroads riff at 3:54. You will not have that problem if you get a 100 watter, but I honestly do not think you'll have realized how loud a 100 watt plexi is until you've heard one. Literally, go take your 6505 and turn it to 10. A 100 watt plexi is noticeably louder than that.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 15, 2009,
#13
Since almost no one goes from guitar to amp directly anymore (without a lot of other effects and/or post-production), you can't just look at the player's guitar and amp, use the same setup, and get the same tone.

A Marshall Plexi (50 or 100 watt) will give you a great sound, but as they have no master volume, you'll have to drive them hard and loud in order to get them to sing. Both of them would likely be at the limit or in excess of your price range. On the other hand, you'd never need to look for a better amp. I think the JCM series, DSL/TSL series or the JVM series would suit you better.

There are plenty of great high-end amplifiers out there, but they aren't cheap. The best advice is to try as many of them as you can and zero in on the tones that you like.
#14
Yeah I have no problem boosting the amp if needed but i'm after a nice amp that i'm not going to outgrow any time soon which is my i'm looking higher range. I've heard somewhere that they used a 60/40 mix of gain and clean in that recording also which could account for the fatter sound he has?

Edit: Al I watched that link and that is pretty much the sound i'm going for a nice medium gain crunch with just a touch of breakup i'm not trying to replicate that AFI sound just start with a nice base and build on that I think that amp would have enough gain for what I want and the voicing seems right too but it must be pricey
Last edited by AxSilentxLine at Nov 15, 2009,
#15
the plexis are really amps that kind of specialized and that is to sound like a plexi. It's just one of those amps where if you want that plexi sound, you're not going to get that exact sound out of another amp, they all just have their own character.

However, if you are looking for something that is a tad more diverse (not that the plexis aren't versatile, because they are, but there are other versatile amps out there too) and about 10x more convenient, I do not recommend the plexi. And I say this from experience.

edit: the biggest problem I can tell you is that the 50 watt plexi's low end is not going to stay tight and defined when you try to do things like palm mute or play fast rhythms. The low end is really something that you may not think is a huge deal until you actually play the amp. Something like a JCM800 is probably more up your alley.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 15, 2009,
#16
Quote by AxSilentxLine
Yeah I have no problem boosting the amp if needed but i'm after a nice amp that i'm not going to outgrow any time soon which is my i'm looking higher range. I've heard somewhere that they used a 60/40 mix of gain and clean in that recording also which could account for the fatter sound he has?



Maybe, but you have to remember that it isn't just the gain and clean mix. Studios have dozens of signal enhancement devices that can be brought into play to broaden, enliven and occasionally seriously screw with the resulting tone. Modern high-end amplifiers are designed with more attention given to the resulting tone; ostensibly so that you won't need as much of that stuff. Still, people continue to use it because it makes their work sound great.

A fat sound can be the result of enhancements, but it can and often is the result of multi-tracking instruments. What sounds like one very fat and great guitar is actually three or four guitars playing the same thing; each track being tweaked slightly differently in order to produce a fantastic tone and immense sound. You never know just how they do it, and a lot of artists are very tight-lipped about how they obtain that great tone and sound.

High gain clearly isn't what you are looking for since you already have a Peavey 6505+. That has more than enough gain. So you are probably looking for a sweet tone with a bit of edge to it. A 50-watt Marshall driven hard will give you exactly that. Also remember that the speaker cabinet plays a huge role in the tone. What cabinets are you looking at? What kind of speakers are you looking at? A 50-watt Marshall through a 4x12 cabinet with Celestion Vintage 30s is a fantastic combination for what you appear to be in search of.

Good luck with the search. It can be frustrating, but along the way you will come across some amazing amps and cabinets.
#17
Yeah I was considering the JCM800 but it's still a bit out of my price range and i'll be waiting a very long time to find one used. Any thoughts on the Vox AC50? I don't really want uber tight bass response and i'm not gonna be playing particularly fast or aggressive styles more alt rock kinda stuff I have a 6505+ for metal and hardcore stuff
#18
maybe look into an orange rockerverb 50 or something, nice warm fat cleans, gain which kills most marshalls imo. maybe not exactly that sound of that recording but definately something you need to try out before you buy something else. actually for that price you can probably get a hiwatt head which have an amazing british sound. go to jacksons rare guitars and try them out.
#19
Quote by FatalGear41
Maybe, but you have to remember that it isn't just the gain and clean mix. Studios have dozens of signal enhancement devices that can be brought into play to broaden, enliven and occasionally seriously screw with the resulting tone. Modern high-end amplifiers are designed with more attention given to the resulting tone; ostensibly so that you won't need as much of that stuff. Still, people continue to use it because it makes their work sound great.

A fat sound can be the result of enhancements, but it can and often is the result of multi-tracking instruments. What sounds like one very fat and great guitar is actually three or four guitars playing the same thing; each track being tweaked slightly differently in order to produce a fantastic tone and immense sound. You never know just how they do it, and a lot of artists are very tight-lipped about how they obtain that great tone and sound.

High gain clearly isn't what you are looking for since you already have a Peavey 6505+. That has more than enough gain. So you are probably looking for a sweet tone with a bit of edge to it. A 50-watt Marshall driven hard will give you exactly that. Also remember that the speaker cabinet plays a huge role in the tone. What cabinets are you looking at? What kind of speakers are you looking at? A 50-watt Marshall through a 4x12 cabinet with Celestion Vintage 30s is a fantastic combination for what you appear to be in search of.

Good luck with the search. It can be frustrating, but along the way you will come across some amazing amps and cabinets.



Yeah i've been recording with bands for the better part of 10 years now but i'm only just starting to get serious with it all and take pride in my tone lol. As for cabs i've got an Engl standard with V60's and the Peavey 6505 cab which i'm looking to do an X pattern with the standard sheffield's (which I like btw) and 2 V30's


Edit: Yeah Joe I love Orange was very close to getting one over the Peavey but couldn't justify spending $3000 on my first Tube amp haha

I have seen Hiwatt around but haven't plugged into one yet i'll have to check them out
Last edited by AxSilentxLine at Nov 15, 2009,
#20
Hiwatts have significantly less gain than you'll get out of a Marshall. Might be what you're looking for though, try one out, I'd really try an Orange out as well. I really dislike them (for the most part, outside of the AD30, I just don't think they sound that good), but a lot of people love them.
#21
Quote by al112987
Hiwatts have significantly less gain than you'll get out of a Marshall. Might be what you're looking for though, try one out, I'd really try an Orange out as well. I really dislike them (for the most part, outside of the AD30, I just don't think they sound that good), but a lot of people love them.



Hiwatts are fantastic amplifiers. They are generally a lot cleaner than Marshalls, except for the new High-Gain model. Still, you can get a great crunch tone out of them. I had one years ago and would love to get another one. Unfortunately, Hiwatts are ruinously expensive. I don't have much experience with Orange amps. I think they are as ugly as sin.
#22
I agree about the Hiwatt, and inside they're works of art, never seen lead dress as neat as on a well built Hiwatt.

As for the whole Orange thing, I agree, they're hideous and I really don't get the big fuss about them. I mean... yeah, they're expensive and well known, but almost every Orange I've played has had this very annoying, fuzzy, boxy, undefined (sort of... they're not muddy or anything, they're just... eh) quality to my ears, especially overdriven. They just sound... hairy, for lack of a better word. I've never really been able to get over that. The only one that I have really managed to like was the AD30, which I think is a great amp.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 15, 2009,
#24
most vintage style drive is a mixture between pre and power amp gain. either way definately look into the hiwatt. classic as they come. then maybe get a nice clean boost to drive it harder.