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#1
Sad News for Gibson fans.
Here's the link!

11-17-2009 4:06 PM —

UPDATED: To clarify that charges have yet to be filed and identify the federal agency involved in the office search; adds statement from Gibson


As originally reported:

Federal agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and local police today seized wood, guitars, computers and boxes of files from Gibson Guitar's Massman Road manufacturing facility.

Sources say the Nashville-based guitar manufacturer is being investigated for violating the Lacey Act, a key piece of environmental law, for importing endangered species of rosewood from Madagascar.

Rosewood is widely used in the construction of guitars and sells for $5,000 per cubic meter, more than double the price of mahogany. The island nation off Africa's east coast is a key producer of the hardwood, the export of which has links to international criminal activity.

A statement from Gibson released late Tuesday afternoon says the company is "fully co-operating" with the investigation.

"Gibson Guitar is fully cooperating with agents of the United States Fish & Wildlife Service as it pertains to an issue with harvested wood. Gibson is a chain of custody certified buyer who purchases wood from legal suppliers who are to follow all standards. Gibson Guitar Chairman and CEO [Henry Juszkiewicz] sits on the board of the Rainforest Alliance and takes the issue of certification very seriously. The company will continue to cooperate fully and assist our federal government with all inquiries and information," the company's statement said.

Madagascar has struggled financially since a January coup and new President Andry Rajoelina issued an executive order in September legalizing the export of rosewood and ebony. The move was decried by environmental groups and political leaders worldwide, as hardwood forests are key to Madagascar's unique ecology and serve as a habitat for a dwindling lemur population.

Sources tell NashvillePost.com Gibson was involved in a scheme that shipped the wood from Madagascar to Germany and then to the United States.



Sadly Gibson is being closed pending an Investigation..
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#3
This might be intresting.
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#5
More Gibson CEO screw-ups, possibly for good. :'-(
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#8
I don't care, I like fender better -_-
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#9
Employee: Sir, how can we justify our high prices when our quality control is spiraling down the drain?

CEO: Use really ****ing expensive, illegal wood!
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#11
^That's a good point, surely they could have used cheaper rosewood than stuff which is now rare and endangered :/. Or maybe madagascar were selling it really cheap because they're so shit and don't allow my virus to EVER enter their country. So they have no money, because their docks are always closed, and nothing enters or leaves.
#13
Gibson sucks, Fender wouldnt dream of it
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#14
Quote by Mazzakazza
^That's a good point, surely they could have used cheaper rosewood than stuff which is now rare and endangered :/. Or maybe madagascar were selling it really cheap because they're so shit and don't allow my virus to EVER enter their country. So they have no money, because their docks are always closed, and nothing enters or leaves.



Sadly, this was my same thought, hahaha


I'm really interested in how this is going to go.
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#15
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That's why I make all my guitars out of California Condors and pandas and such.


lol, Im sorry, I laughed out loud at this.
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#16
Will be interesting to see what the findings are, but I would think this sort of thing would be much more likely to happen with a smaller company trying to claw it's way ahead in the 3rd world than an established brand in the western world that has myriad laws to comply with and a lot to lose.
#17
Quote by Hydra26
Will be interesting to see what the findings are, but I would think this sort of thing would be much more likely to happen with a smaller company trying to claw it's way ahead in the 3rd world than an established brand in the western world that has myriad laws to comply with and a lot to lose.


It also has a nutcase running it.
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#18
If gibson shut down I will piss with excitment.

/anti-gibson elitism

Could you imagine how much Gibbys will be worth if they do?
I knew I should've bought one.
#19
Quote by Mazzakazza
^That's a good point, surely they could have used cheaper rosewood than stuff which is now rare and endangered :/. Or maybe madagascar were selling it really cheap because they're so shit and don't allow my virus to EVER enter their country. So they have no money, because their docks are always closed, and nothing enters or leaves.

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#20
It's good to see this is what law enforcement is doing.

'Hey forget about all the rapists and murderers in our country, and terrorists around the world, lets catch a company using endangered woods!'

Hopefully this will bring the price of gibson down, way down
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#21
Quote by JAHellraiser
It's good to see this is what law enforcement is doing.

'Hey forget about all the rapists and murderers in our country, and terrorists around the world, lets catch a company using endangered woods!'

Hopefully this will bring the price of gibson down, way down


If anything this will bring it way, way, up, because if this lawsuit gets through, they won't be making any more.
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#22
Could this mean............no more reverse *insert shape*
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#23
^The company won't be shut down - the people responsible for the decisions made may have action taken against them such as loss of job (though even that would be doubtful, really), but a company of that size being shut down wouldn't happen - think of the job losses at factory level etc and economic losses.

I think a heavy fine for the company and a wagging finger is more likely.


(Im sure Gibson can afford very good lawyers too. They'll probably be reprimanded and a close eye kept on their wood supply, with no repurcussions.)
Last edited by Mazzakazza at Nov 17, 2009,
#24
Maybe we could get this guy (Henry Juszkiewicz) in an Orange jumpsuit. And get someone to run that company properly..
If you start a reply with: I have never played one but I have heard good things about it! Your opinion is invalid.
#25
Quote by JAHellraiser
It's good to see this is what law enforcement is doing.

'Hey forget about all the rapists and murderers in our country, and terrorists around the world, lets catch a company using endangered woods!'

Hopefully this will bring the price of gibson down, way down


When something becomes contraband, it generally drives the price up.
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#28
Quote by dougl126
why would the fish and wildlife service get involved in this?

Trees are wildlife i believe?
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#30
Quote by sgany
Trees are wildlife i believe?



But the fisheries and wildlife service deal with fisheries in and around the U.S. and wildlife in the U.S. Not abroad. This would be something for the EPA or some kind of agency dealing with trade, or even an international group. But not the fish and wildlife service.
#31
First thought when saw topic title: "What, is there cocaine in it?"
Thought when clicking the link: "Well, cocaine-laced fretboards would explain their popularity in the 60's and 70's."

Les Paul dies the same year Gibson is raided...it's a sign I tell you! Although if that's the case Fender should be dead since George and Leo both are...(RIP all three)

At any rate, I now have an excuse to run out and finally buy a Gibson of some sort; because if they go down I have a valuable discontinued object, and if they stay afloat, I have something that had rosewood so good, that even without cocaine, the government wanted it.

Also, who's buying the rights to the Les Paul, 335 and SG now if they go out of business?
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#32
Gibson won't be shut down it's just an investigation there are not even any charges filed yet and even if they are found guilty they would just have to pay some fines. I am sure other guitars companies will be getting investigated as well.

As exotic woods get phased out these guitar companies will be using more accessible, easily available wood that are not protected like NATO Mahogany etc.


John
#33
All that i hope comes from this is the CEO loses his job, and the company can come back and be run properly.
#34
Quote by ZOMGdonuts
so wait a sec..
Gibson is being investigated for using GOOD wood...?


Sources say the Nashville-based guitar manufacturer is being investigated for violating the Lacey Act, a key piece of environmental law, for importing endangered species of rosewood from Madagascar.


Good wood or not you can't expect to break the law (if they did that is) and get away with it forever.
#35
Quote by Mazzakazza
^That's a good point, surely they could have used cheaper rosewood than stuff which is now rare and endangered :/. Or maybe madagascar were selling it really cheap because they're so shit and don't allow my virus to EVER enter their country. So they have no money, because their docks are always closed, and nothing enters or leaves.

My friend actually managed to infect them, but Argentina (the second worst culprit) closed off everything. it was hilarious cuz he rejoiced at the Madagascar thing, but then noticed that Argentina had no chance of being infected haha
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#36
Quote by JAHellraiser
It's good to see this is what law enforcement is doing.

'Hey forget about all the rapists and murderers in our country, and terrorists around the world, lets catch a company using endangered woods!'

That's cute how you think law inforcement can just go and do what they need to with rapists and murderers. They kinda need information and such to bring them down.
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#37
Quote by JAHellraiser
It's good to see this is what law enforcement is doing.

'Hey forget about all the rapists and murderers in our country, and terrorists around the world, lets catch a company using endangered woods!'

Hopefully this will bring the price of gibson down, way down



Highly doubt it. Gibson pricing is what keeps the company afloat and what's make you think Gibson is quality in the back of your mind when you hear the name. Plus what legit American made guitar is cheap to begin with?
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#38
I would be very surprised if Gibson were shut down over this. Even if it turns out they knew that the wood in question was illegally imported, the most they could get is a fine. Companies don't shut down over a fine. Of course, they'll probably pass the cost of the fine on to the consumers.
#39
Quote by dougl126
But the fisheries and wildlife service deal with fisheries in and around the U.S. and wildlife in the U.S. Not abroad. This would be something for the EPA or some kind of agency dealing with trade, or even an international group. But not the fish and wildlife service.


F&W's mission also covers the enforcement of all Federal wildlife laws, including those regarding the importation of endangered species & their byproducts- which is what Gibson is being investigated for.

http://www.fws.gov/help/about_us.html
http://www.fws.gov/policy/npi99_01.html
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#40
Quote by necrosis1193
if they go down I have a valuable discontinued object, and if they stay afloat, I have something that had rosewood so good, that even without cocaine, the government wanted it.


This made me LOL
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Last edited by Biblico at Nov 17, 2009,
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