#1
I have a Schecter C-1 Hellraiser, and I try my best to take care of my guitar, checking it every time I put on new strings, cleaning it often, etc. Recently I've noticed a weird problem with my guitar being slightly out of tune on various parts of the neck.

Its only off by maybe a slight bit but its enough to bug me. The first 5 frets start off a tiny bit sharp, and even out at the 5th fret, but going further up it starts to go flat a tiny bit. By Sharp and Flat I mean difference in pitch.

So, I can't figure out what to do. I'm determined to figure it out on my own, cause I'm a strong believer its important to know how to maintain your instrument on your own. Also, I'd rather not spend $30 to get it set-up when it might be something I can easily fix.

Anyway, I'm sorry I can't really give anymore details, but my guitar is basically set-up just fine. My neck is straight, with a tiny bit of relief (I heard its not good to be dead-straight). I often like my action between low and high, so right in the middle.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
#2
You need to intonate your guitar! Do it right after changing strings and performing any other adjustments (heigth of strings (ie Action) and neck relief).
Two generally accepted methods involve either.....
a) Fretting the twelth fret note and natural harmonic and adjust the bridge till they match exactly or
b) Playing the open string note and then fretting at the twelth fret and adjusting till they match.
I personally refer B as it's supposed to compensate for the different string length that occurs when a string is depressed. This method is also recommended by many Luthiers, Dan Erlewine of Steward MacDonald being a prominent one.
As for how to match the tow pitches regardless of A or B method chosen, JJ1565 has some good info on the process.
Moving on.....
Last edited by KenG at Nov 20, 2009,
#3
Quote by KenG
You need to intonate your guitar! Do it right after changing strings and performing any other adjustments (heigth of strings (ie Action) and neck relief).
Two generally accepted methods involve either.....
a) Fretting the twelth fret note and natural harmonic and adjust the bridge till they match exactly or
b) Playing the open string note and then fretting at the twelth fret and adjusting till they match.
I personally refer B as it's supposed to compensate for the different string length that occurs when a string is depressed. This method is also recommended by many Luthiers, Dan Erlewine of Steward MacDonald being a prominent one.
As for how to match the tow pitches regardless of A or B method chosen, JJ1565 has some good info on the process.

I've already matched the 12th fret harmonic with the 12 fret pitch. I've done all of that already, its just...I don't know, somethings not right. I've gone through the entire 'set-up' process, but I'm kinda stuck because I can't figure where to go from here. I don't want to make any adjustments until I know what I'm aiming for.
#4
if you've intonated then it might just be a high fret causing a small section of the neck to be sharp
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
#5
try adjusting the truss rod or adjusting the action of the guitar so the 12th fret harmonic is the same pitch as open fret harmonic.
#6
Quote by malmsteensolo
try adjusting the truss rod or adjusting the action of the guitar so the 12th fret harmonic is the same pitch as open fret harmonic.


he's already intonated.

edit: know know what. i read the first post again.

it's not going to be that he needs to adjust the truss rod or action, but i do think now that he hasnt intonated properly.

TS you compared the fretted 12th to the harmonic,

have you tried comparing the open string note to the fretted 12th?

amd how old are those strings?
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
Last edited by jj1565 at Nov 20, 2009,
#7
My open strings are good with the 12th fret and the 12th fret harmonic. I don't know whats going on. Its probably from me not setting it up properly or something, but I can't figure out where I went wrong.

Edit: My strings are new, but just broken in. I've had this issue since my last set, so I don't think its the strings.
Last edited by Jartny at Nov 20, 2009,
#8
ok, but did you try checking the intonation with the open string note compared to the fretted 12th?
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
#9
Quote by jj1565
ok, but did you try checking the intonation with the open string note compared to the fretted 12th?

The 12th is a tiny bit flat. But what I don't understand is why the first 5 frets are a tiny bit sharp, and even out on the 5th fret. Then from the 5th fret on it gets a little sharp.
#10
Because of the way a guitar scale is tempered it'll never be perfectly in-tune everywhere.
However, intonation needs to be as accurate as possible to get all the notes as close as well. Because your twelth fret is flat you are incorrectly tuning the guitar because the string length is too long. This causes you to tune higher at the fifth fret and results in the difference you're hearng. The good news is you have a decent ear becuase you're noticing. Some players never do....
Moving on.....
#11
Quote by KenG
Because of the way a guitar scale is tempered it'll never be perfectly in-tune everywhere.
However, intonation needs to be as accurate as possible to get all the notes as close as well. Because your twelth fret is flat you are incorrectly tuning the guitar because the string length is too long. This causes you to tune higher at the fifth fret and results in the difference you're hearng. The good news is you have a decent ear becuase you're noticing. Some players never do....

Alright, thats good to know. But what can I do to fix it, shorten the string length at the bridge?
#12
well what ken's saying is that, even if you adjust the string length to tune the string at the 12th, other frets might still be slightly off.

so you get it at a place where you can live wt the tuning, and if you still have some frets that are way off to the point where you're hearing it (not noting it wt a tuner) then maybe you could have those frets worked on.

for example, a slightly high fret, might ring sharp. that sort of thing.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
#13
Quote by jj1565
well what ken's saying is that, even if you adjust the string length to tune the string at the 12th, other frets might still be slightly off.

so you get it at a place where you can live wt the tuning, and if you still have some frets that are way off to the point where you're hearing it (not noting it wt a tuner) then maybe you could have those frets worked on.

for example, a slightly high fret, might ring sharp. that sort of thing.

Okay, but that doesn't answer if I should be adjusting the string length to make it a tiny bit shorter, than make minor adjustments with frets and such. I understand it'll never be perfectly in tune, but I have a good ear for those kind of things, and the tiny bit its flat here or sharp there is enough to catch my ear, but not the casual listener. Its just a case of me being very critical of my guitar, making sure its in 110% condition.
#14
Use/borrow a good tuner and go ahead and adjust your intonation perfectly first (not by ear). Make sure you do it holding the guitar in the playing position and never touch the tuners while strking & checking the note. If it still sounds out to you, you may want to consider a tempered tuning system like the Buzz Feiten. It needs to be installed by a qualified pro and then requires a special tuner setting for it (Korg, Peterson have them). It basically is a nut that tweeks the strings lengths individually by providing some overhang and then by slightly different tuning balances out the off areas on the guitar fretboard. This system has been used & endorsed by many pros.
Moving on.....
#15
^that or a compensated earvana nut.

whichever is more practical.


Quote by Jartny
Okay, but that doesn't answer if I should be adjusting the string length to make it a tiny bit shorter,



well i'm not what else you're asking. intonate it at the 12th.

by any means necessary, so that it sounds good to you ear.

then go back and work on individual frets and / or buy a nut or bridge system.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
Last edited by jj1565 at Nov 21, 2009,