#1
I always see guitarists doing this in solos, but I've never really understood how they do it (Although I may be completely overthinking it XD). I'm talking about when their picking hand is whipping up and down, picking like there's no tomorrow, and their fretting hand usually ascends or descends a simple scale.

The first example that came to mind is Petrucci's Under a Glass Moon solo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVmq2C5kLoM#t=0m50s

When doing this sort of thing, is it just simple, but extremely fast, alt picking as they go down the scale? I've been trying to get up to speed to be able to do something like this, but I can't stop thinking about every single note I pick.

When I'm practicing speed, it's like I have two picking speeds. There's the slower speed 1, where my mind thinks about and makes sure each and every note is picked cleanly and accurately. Then the faster speed 2, where I'm picking and I'm just hoping that it's clean.

Is there some sort of mental barrier I have to get across, to not dwell on every note and just let it fly? Until I can figure out the secret, I'll just keep slowly bumping up the BPM on my metronome (Or maybe that IS the secret... Well played, Guitar, well played )
#2
i think the good players don't use the "faster speed 2" that you mention.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#3
i know for a fact that John Petrucci does a lot of mixing of hammer ons and picking in his solos so that may be a factor in his ridiculous speed
#4
You have to play a given phrase or solo enough to develop some degree of muscle memory because it's impossible to think about what you're playing when you're shredding (or at least pushing your own speed barriers).
#5
What I do is get the patterns down in my head, so i can focus on the picking without worrying about my left hand.
PM me for newts
#6
There's not really any such thing as "faster speed 2" , all that boils down to is spazzing your hand at the strings and hoping for the best.

Good guitarists are in complete control at all times, they don't play any differently to you at slower speed 1, they're just better at it...they think about things just as much as you do, only much faster.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#7
so..the answer is "it takes time to develop speed" and there is no secret magic in it..?
tired of finger speed exercise and turned into slow blues improvisation lately
#8
yup, as with so many other things with the guitar.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#9
Speed, same as chord voicings, same as every other technique takes time, practice and muscle memory! the trick as people have say'd on so many threads is to start at a unconfortably slow tempo and make sure your timing is SPOT on, I mean dead on and then slowly speeding up, making sure timing and cleany'ness are still spot on every single note until you reach a point untill you have to sacrifice good timing and clean sound to play faster, slow down a bit and then try to go back up. Sometimes it helps to just go up like 10 bpm from that cant go farther point and then going back, but make sure you dont overdo it becasue if you develop muscle memory playing sloppily, you'll learn to do it all the time.
#10
Petrucci likes to add in a lot of hammer ons/pull offs. Below is a good lesson on how he plays as fast as he does. He explains his technique for fast scale runs and stuff like that. And the annotations are hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Mr9ZQdGAM

Other than that, it's just a matter of slowing it down and working on it. And if you're planning on learning that whole solo, good luck with the sweeping, hammer on, pull off, tapping lick.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#11
Quote by Junior#1
Petrucci likes to add in a lot of hammer ons/pull offs. Below is a good lesson on how he plays as fast as he does. He explains his technique for fast scale runs and stuff like that. And the annotations are hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Mr9ZQdGAM

Other than that, it's just a matter of slowing it down and working on it. And if you're planning on learning that whole solo, good luck with the sweeping, hammer on, pull off, tapping lick.


I'd say petrucci is still more famous for his almost metronomic picking consistency up until about 13-14 notes per second.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#14
>.<

Chris in that era is an example of how to do things exactly wrong (speed "method" number 2). He's since totally changed his technique since then and cleaned up his playing.

TS, in short, you practice making small efficient motions as relaxed as possible and your comfort zone for "speed 1" increases with practice. There's more detail in the sticky and everywhere else in this forum.
#15
Quote by revoh
Speed, same as chord voicings, same as every other technique takes time, practice and muscle memory! the trick as people have say'd on so many threads is to start at a unconfortably slow tempo and make sure your timing is SPOT on, I mean dead on and then slowly speeding up, making sure timing and cleany'ness are still spot on every single note until you reach a point untill you have to sacrifice good timing and clean sound to play faster, slow down a bit and then try to go back up. Sometimes it helps to just go up like 10 bpm from that cant go farther point and then going back, but make sure you dont overdo it becasue if you develop muscle memory playing sloppily, you'll learn to do it all the time.

i just gotta say that that is basically like, totally wrong, or at least missing the most important piece of advice. obviously, if you are sloppy, no one will want to hear you play anything, no matter how fast; however, this type of advice is why there are so many people who practice nonstop and sound great, but never increase their speed. i guess it isn't that bad of advice then, haha
#16
^ I don't see what's so bad about what he's suggesting. He's basically saying play everything dead on, and increase your speed gradually, and mix it with occasionally going a bit over max speed to mix things up a bit, then cautions you not to do that too often.

Occasionally pushing the speed a bit over what your comfortable with can be helpful, as long as, like revoh says, you don't do it so often as to start getting to used to being sloppy. The one downside to the slow deliberate practice, is that after a while, faster speeds can start seeming really fast just because you aren't used to them, and your brain will say "oh, sh*t this is really fast, tense up".
Going a bit over once in a while can get the higher speed to seem less fast, and reduce the tendency to automatically tense up.

But just to be absolutely clear here, I'm talking about once every 5-10 practice sessions or thereabouts. You definately don't want to do it too often.
#17
Speed is just a byproduct of learning to play cleanly and accurately with economy of motion. Read the sticky
#18
Quote by The_Toki
Check out Chris Impellitteri's fast runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK33ujmHfUs


You check out Chris's GOOD fast runs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3Kyd7iz440&feature=related

Edit: Dammit, I've just rememebred how much guys like Chris make me want a strat ¬_¬
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Nov 23, 2009,
#20
Quote by Freepower
Strats are strats, and there is no replacement unfortunately.

I love good strats but can't justify getting one for the rare times I'd pick it up.


Justification what now? The only reason I don't have one is because I haven't got the money
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#21
watch paul gilberts intense rock on alternate picking.
do all exercises. play riffs that involve triplets with alternate picking. examples that have helped me would be Painkiller by Judas Priest main riff, Battle Against Time by Wintersun main riff, Deadly Sinners by 3 Inches of blood main riff, and generally any song by Cynic, ive been working (slowly mind you, that ****ers alt picking technique is crazy) at space for this and evolutionary sleeper.

just do these and any misc exercises for alternate picking. i do highly recommend paul gilbert. alot of his runs and exercises invlove going to a higher string, but doing it with an upstroke, which is at first very awkward but after you get used to it, it feels very natural and it makes a ton of shit easier to play. do them slowly at first and yes you have it right just slowly keep increasing your bpm but only when you can play it at the previous speed for around a minute straight with no screw ups at all.
Gibson SG Special Faded(Super Distortion/PAF Pro)
Carvin V3M
Jet City JCA2112RC
Taylor 114e
Ibanez SR300e

Quote by Delanoir
In 60 years, there will still be Opeth.
You know why?
Death ain't got **** on Mikael.
#22
Quote by se012101
^ I don't see what's so bad about what he's suggesting. He's basically saying play everything dead on, and increase your speed gradually, and mix it with occasionally going a bit over max speed to mix things up a bit, then cautions you not to do that too often.

Occasionally pushing the speed a bit over what your comfortable with can be helpful, as long as, like revoh says, you don't do it so often as to start getting to used to being sloppy. The one downside to the slow deliberate practice, is that after a while, faster speeds can start seeming really fast just because you aren't used to them, and your brain will say "oh, sh*t this is really fast, tense up".
Going a bit over once in a while can get the higher speed to seem less fast, and reduce the tendency to automatically tense up.

But just to be absolutely clear here, I'm talking about once every 5-10 practice sessions or thereabouts. You definately don't want to do it too often.


i just think it is taking the long road. most people will never reach their goals by doing that. you have to already be 'good enough' for that kind of practicing to be useful.

some trumpet player at a brass workshop explained working on intervals like this. at first, the difference between partials seems huge, but after working on it for a while it's like they actually get closer.

the same thing will happen on guitar. how about instead of trying to perfect a specific riff at a specific speed, simply play two or four notes (muted, or open, the note doesn't matter) on one string, then play two or for on the string next to it. play it with perfrect rhythm. the distance between the last note of one string and the first note on the next means that you have to move slightly faster between those notes, and you have to bring that slight speed increase into perfect rhythm.

start with dudu on e and then a, then e and d, then e and g, then e and e. then use udud. then start doing it with just two note du, and ud. play with perfect rhythm. even when you're skipping four strings, don't let there be a pause between those notes.

eventually the strings will seem to 'get closer', and you'll be able to just play faster
#23
Hammer ons and pull offs between each pick. If you picked at 100 picks a minute, but hammered on between each pick, it would sound like 200 picks per minute, making it sound twice as fast as normal.
Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
The grandmother is having a baby with her grandson, so the grandson will be his own fathers father, the baby will be his own grandfather, and grandson, and the grandmother will be the mother, and great grandmother?

Quote by TheBurningFish
ಠ_ಠ
#24
Quote by eddievanzant
i just think it is taking the long road. most people will never reach their goals by doing that. you have to already be 'good enough' for that kind of practicing to be useful.

some trumpet player at a brass workshop explained working on intervals like this. at first, the difference between partials seems huge, but after working on it for a while it's like they actually get closer.

the same thing will happen on guitar. how about instead of trying to perfect a specific riff at a specific speed, simply play two or four notes (muted, or open, the note doesn't matter) on one string, then play two or for on the string next to it. play it with perfrect rhythm. the distance between the last note of one string and the first note on the next means that you have to move slightly faster between those notes, and you have to bring that slight speed increase into perfect rhythm.

start with dudu on e and then a, then e and d, then e and g, then e and e. then use udud. then start doing it with just two note du, and ud. play with perfect rhythm. even when you're skipping four strings, don't let there be a pause between those notes.

eventually the strings will seem to 'get closer', and you'll be able to just play faster

That's all fine and good but if you're playing something fast like at lets say 32nd notes at 150 bpm, you probably won't be able to just pick it up at full speed right away. You're going to have to slow it down to get it perfect. There's no point to practicing it if your not playing it right.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#25
Quote by smartalec007
Hammer ons and pull offs between each pick. If you picked at 100 picks a minute, but hammered on between each pick, it would sound like 200 picks per minute, making it sound twice as fast as normal.

then it wouldn't exactly be an alternate picking lick though.
^Note: Probably sarcastic
Gear
Schecter Blackjack C1-FR
Few Agile 8-strings
Ormsby Hypemachine 2014 otw!!

Carvin X-100B
axe-fx II

W.A musicians FTW
Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
#26
Quote by Deep*Kick
then it wouldn't exactly be an alternate picking lick though.


Is that really important?

Nearly everyone uses a few hammers and pulls to make life easier, it's a good idea and often sounds as good or better than picking every note anyway.
#27
Quote by smartalec007
Hammer ons and pull offs between each pick. If you picked at 100 picks a minute, but hammered on between each pick, it would sound like 200 picks per minute, making it sound twice as fast as normal.


You still can't go any fast than you can legato though.
#28
Quote by Freepower
Is that really important?

Nearly everyone uses a few hammers and pulls to make life easier, it's a good idea and often sounds as good or better than picking every note anyway.

well I mean the topic is on "super fast alt picking"
^Note: Probably sarcastic
Gear
Schecter Blackjack C1-FR
Few Agile 8-strings
Ormsby Hypemachine 2014 otw!!

Carvin X-100B
axe-fx II

W.A musicians FTW
Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.