#1
www.myspace.com/SamiPhiladelphia
It should be first track

I do plan on doing vocals later, so it won't be an instrumental for long.
I'd just like a rating on the mixing/mastering, solo, and of course the riffs.
I know myspace kinda dampens the quality (not to mention the files are mp3) but bare with me, I'm recording onboard, and am curious of how clear the toms,kicks,rides,snares, blah blah all that is.

C4C of course, and add me if you already haven't.
#2
The snare sounds like if I hit a big lump of sheet metal with a stick. The guitars sound like if I hit a wasp nest with a stick, the resulting sound of both combined is like if I hit my head with a stick.

Seriously man, it's a messy mess, even if your going for the brutalz chainsaw rape guitar then at least make it a bit distinguishable, that snare sounds like something I'd expect to hear at a blacksmiths, some of the riffs sound reasonably cool but its a bit hard to rate them when the production is detracting from your song so much.
#3
Lol, I'm not going for the brutal sound at all, thats the problem, I start off with the guitar, and then add the bass, but when it comes to the drums, they refuse to be distinguishable unless EQ'd and overdriven, any tips?
#4
What are you using for the drums and how are you recording the guitar?
#6
What impulses are you using on the amp sim?

If I were you I'd get a copy of DKFH, it sound's much more real.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#7
Meh, DKFH's samples are so easily recognizable and obviously geared toward Deathcoregrind****yourfaceoffbrutalz metal.

But I'll try it, perhaps I've just seen a few bad examples.

My EQ is set to...
125=50%
250=38%
500=45%
1k=30%
2k=62%
4k=67%
8k=61%
16=70%

Distortion Pedal=
Distortion=70%
Comb=50%
Glass=60%
Inferno=3.0
#8
Quote by Sami Philadelph
Line In, into Image-Lines "Hardcore" Digital Amp
and FL Studio 9 for the drums


That explain it, this is one of the worst setups I think you could hope to come up with.

DKFH is still infinitely more real than what you've got at the moment. I've been using standard Ezdrummer and sample replacing the kick and snare more recently though. The toms are less shite than DKFH, you just need to cut a bit of meat from them.

I've never heard of image-line but it sounds terrible, consider Gareths tutorial on free vst sims to get a good amp tone:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1131250

And consider replacing your use of a sound card with a proper interface if you can afford it.

If you need any justification for the above then this should help you along:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1231984
Last edited by Beefmo at Nov 21, 2009,
#10
Superior Drummer is the best of the three, its got a the largest sample library - somewhere around 30 gigs. It has the most professional sounding samples and most natural cymbals sound, its widely considered to be the best drum program you can get your hands on at the moment, although also the most expensive I think.

Drumkit from hell is the one everyone here uses, the toms, kick and snare all sound a bit flat, I sample replace most of it with samples I've collected from around then net cos the sounds aren't too good at all - you can tell them from a mile off, although Devin Townsend has used them on the Ziltoid album. Meshuggah have also used these samples, as they were recorded by the drummer from Meshuggah.

EZdrummer is the most basic of the three, I think the toms sound better, its really aimed more for rock than metal (which is what DKFH is geared at) but I think the sounds are a bit more refined and the toms have more meat (maybe a bit too much for metal application), it lacks things like a china and all those extra cymbals or toms, but I find the simplicity is a bit better. As I said earlier I'm also sample replacing the kick and the snare on this one and just using the natural toms and cymbal sounds.
#11
I was looking into SD but didn't want to invest the 16GB file size, I have a 320 GB HD but still, 16GB is a lot for samples I probably won't use. Is there anyway to obtain SD packs for EZDrummer?
#12
The basic installation of Superior drummer only takes up 2 gigs as far as I'm aware.

Theres no Superior Addon packs for EzDrummer as they are essentially different programs, just made by the same people.
#13
I'm with Beefmo on this one, your production detracts waaaaay too much from the actual song. The playing sounds solid but the sounds are just horrible.

If you don't want to spend the cash, nor the hard drive space, for Superior Drummer then I'd recommend the standard kit in EZ Drummer. The add-on DKFH is horribly compressed and EQ'd right off the bat so there's not much you can do with the sound. The other thing to remember is that the samples used on that are the original ones so they're really old (in sample set years) and have relatively poor velocity variation. With some good EQ/compression the standard EZ Drummer kit works well for metal though (although I could use an extra tom and cymbal or two).

I'm currently recording some old metal songs using EZ Drummer (I tend to use BFD for the most part) and I can post a little something tomorrow so you can hear how it sounds. Keep in mind that this is more "classic", power/NWOBHM with progressive touches though so the sounds might not suit your tastes.

If you need better amp sims I suggest either looking into Amplitube or hardware versions.
"If money is the root of all evil, I'd like to be a bad, bad man."

- Huey Lewis & the News
#14
I love NWOBHM, From Raven To Diamondhead
It wasn't 'till now that I noticed I'd strayed that far away from my NWOBHM and Speed Metal influences, perhaps too much Slayer :P.

Does the standard EZDrummer have a double kick? i just need 2 kicks, 3 toms, 2 rides, a snare or two, and a crash :X
#15
EZ Drummer has a single kick, although you can choose from 3 different kicks, but with proper programming that won't matter since the difference between two kicks in a mix are small (unless the mixer has panned wider than natural). Toms are no problem, the standard kit has 4 of them (and they sound great IMO). Just the one ride though, can't really understand why you'd need two...?

I'll fire up my music computer and get an mp3 up here so you can hear how I've used EZ Drummer's standard kit for metal.
"If money is the root of all evil, I'd like to be a bad, bad man."

- Huey Lewis & the News
#16
When you're programming drums you dont need a double kick because theres no limitation to how fast a machine can go with one.

I'd totally agree with ebon00 up until the amplitube bit, I'm afraid that I can't really agree on.
#17
I've found no luck with Amplitube, infact, I dislike it quite alot. To each his own. I'm quite fine with Image-Lines "Hardcore", I rather like the sound, given its not shown very well here, it does sound quite authentic. I also have revalver which I like, but not as much as "Hardcore".

Would I be able to use EZDrummer as a VST effectively in FL Studio? I've seen youtube videos of people programming via piano roll, but that seems counter-intuitive toward FL's quite user-friendly sequencer. Could I possibly load the EZDrummer sounds into the library and simply use them as if they were stock FL sounds?
#18
Nah you'd need to use a proper sequencer I think, it's really not that hard to program drums quickly in Reaper or Cubase, point and click job, then set the frequencies, FL is only user friendly because you are accustomed to it.
#19
Perhaps, I surely don't have the means for Cubase, but I have Reaper. It seriously just didn't seem that amazing to me, but I didn't really give it a chance, admittedly, as I'd upgraded to FL9 on the same day, I found some of their newer features interesting enough.

Would I be programming via a piano roll on Reaper? I guess I'll see when I get there.
#20
If you're used to programming in FL Studio you can still do that, just export MIDI of whatever you've programmed into Reaper and run EZ Drummer as a VST there. Amplitube isn't the best option for an amp sim, hardware stuff is much better, but if you want to go the software route it's the best I've tried (keeping in mind that I haven't had the pleasure of working with Amp Room but that doesn't seem geared towards metal at all).
"If money is the root of all evil, I'd like to be a bad, bad man."

- Huey Lewis & the News
#21
OK, this is it. I haven't quite gotten the mix to my liking yet, it is a bit crowded in places, but it will give you a decent idea of how the standard kit in EZ Drummer works for metal. Bear in mind that this is the simplest of the simple ways of using EZ Drummer - I've just imported a MIDI file into ProTools and used the stereo out option, you can have 8 individual out for more control of the end result, and added a little bit of limiting, no compression or EQ what so ever.

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ebon00/music/all/play737191
"If money is the root of all evil, I'd like to be a bad, bad man."

- Huey Lewis & the News
#22
Quote by Beefmo
Nah you'd need to use a proper sequencer I think, it's really not that hard to program drums quickly in Reaper or Cubase, point and click job, then set the frequencies, FL is only user friendly because you are accustomed to it.


I use EZDrummer in Fruity Loops...

I import my Guitar Pro midi's and then run them through DKFH, then EQ and verb it in adobe audition
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#23
That misses out the glaring question of velocity programming, I bet your drums sound static as hell.
#24
1.Explain Velocity
2.I've got Reaper (Evaluation) and EZDrummer with the DKFH pack.

I've been told to simply drag a pre-existing groove into the recording window, and edit it via midi/piano roll. Is there any other way?
Also, can I get to the midi/piano roll without adding a pre-existing groove?

Thanks for you guys help so far.
#25
Quote by Sami Philadelph
1.Explain Velocity


Basically how loud a note/drum hit is, the dynamics of a performance. Unless you vary your velocity when programming drums most things will sound horribly wrong and very unnatural. I'd recommend looking into the topic called THE Drum Programs Thread in the main Recordings & Riffs forum. It used to be stickied but sadly it's not any more, find it here: . There is a lot of good information in the thread, if you bypass all the "what am I doing wrong" stuff. I've pasted my two contributions below, read them carefully.

WHY PROGRAM WITH VARIETY? HINTS AND TIPS.

1) No drummer hits the same way twice really. They vary how hard they hit and the strike zone, although small for most drummers, causes a natural variation in timbre. Straight eights on the hi-hat or the ride are almost always slightly accented on the important 4ths and the 8ths in between vary. For most programming this type of variation is most easily handled by velocity changes.

2) Drummers are not machines. Tempos will vary slightly even if they play to a click track so to make things sound decent you need to subtly alter the tempo throughout a song. As a basic rule choruses tend to be slightly faster than verses (assuming that there are no distinct tempo/meter changes between the two) and no tom fill is ever played straight, most drummers tend to rush a little at the beginning of fills (while inexperienced drummers tend to rush at the end of fills to make it in time for the next measure).

3) Drummers hardly ever hit two drums at the same time. Those tiny, tiny time differences between, say, striking the hi-hat and the snare is something that you don't really notice... unless they aren't there. Try to shift some "notes" around a little so that not everything lines up perfectly.

4) The groove. No drummer in the world play straight eights/sixteenths/whatever, they all vary the spaces between the notes to create that elusive thing called the groove. The easiest way to get at this is to have a number of beats that were recorded by a real drummer to a click track. Then you extract a groove template (or something similar depending on the software) and use that to help bring life to any programmed drum part (keeping number 3 in mind). If your program allows to vary the strength of the application of the quantizing this is an excellent way of doing things.

5) Don't try to be Mike Portnoy of the drum machine world. (This relates to what can actually be played by any one man.) Simple is almost always better and in the end God really is in the details. Small ghost notes added here and there in a groove might not seem audible once the full mix is up but they actually do make a world of difference and they add the requisite variation so that a simple part doesn't get dull.

PROGRAMMING VARIED MIDI DRUMS

Go here: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12229725&postcount=52

Quote by Sami Philadelph
2.I've got Reaper (Evaluation) and EZDrummer with the DKFH pack.

I've been told to simply drag a pre-existing groove into the recording window, and edit it via midi/piano roll. Is there any other way?
Also, can I get to the midi/piano roll without adding a pre-existing groove?


It depends on how you program your stuff. I prefer using Guitar Pro because it's an interface I'm very comfortable with. When I do that I program the basic velocity variation and any tempo variation in GP and then add the minor things, moving things a bit or groove quantizing, when I've imported it into my DAW. For most DAWs you need an existing MIDI region to be able to access the piano roll. Look at how you work today in FL and see if you can export MIDI from FL (like I suggested above, please take the time to read these posts). If you can then you can program like you used to in FL and then import that MIDI into Reaper where you can tweak velocities. You might also be able to import the MIDI into EZ Drummer, haven't tried to see if it works or not, and use the Humanize function in there to add variation.
"If money is the root of all evil, I'd like to be a bad, bad man."

- Huey Lewis & the News
#26
Thanks, this all is really helpful.
Sadly, I don't believe I can export the drums via FL, as I was using the sequencer and not the piano roll, which apparently is required for MIDI export.

I'll just have to get use to Reaper...

In doing so though, I'd like to ask a few things.
1. In the midi editor, expanding pass the number "1" simply repeats what you've just done. Upon trying to edit out the repeated drum sequence and replace it with a new, I saw that what ever I changed on the "2" measure affected the "1" measure. Is there any way I can expand beyond the first measure without it repeating?