Poll: Read OP.
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View poll results: Read OP.
Mere existence
16 16%
Our world
84 84%
Voters: 100.
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#1
This is a spawn off from the other thread, but give credit to captaincrunk for the idea.

What would you choose? A world of mere existence or our world?

Mere existence is just enough food to live. Nothing more. You need to plan to make sure you've got enough to live on, but it's enough to do. There's no video games, TV or internet, but you can have two books of your choice. Entertainment is common socialising. Do not expect more than about eight pints of beer a year. Work life is ten hours six days a week with half an hour break. Education is average but few people are high academics - you're not one of them. You don't have too much of a say in the work place, but it's safe enough. You've got a life expectancy of about 60-65 years.

Why would you choose that? There's no second and third world suffering. There's no starvation, there's no medical panics, all of that stuff. Everyone gets by.

Or - our world.

Which one?

EDIT: Any mention of 'this is Communism' or 'capitalism vs. Socialism' is wrong. So so so wrong. So wrong and so idiotic I will boil your head in acid of PH1.

EDIT: I make no comment on Government for economics, other than there is a Government and there are business owners.

Mere existence is not a proposed utopia. I have no idea why you people would think so. Choose for yourself what's better.
Last edited by Craigo at Nov 24, 2009,
#2
Quote by Craigo
Education is average but few people are high academics - you're not one of them.

If that's the case then I choose suicide.
MATTERHORN
#3
I find our world satisfying enough; while alot of people suffer in our world, the majority aren't doing too badly.
#6
I went for mere existance. I have a pretty good life, but to give everyone in the world a good life would be a worthwhile sacrifice ... I think. Bloody tough one though.
#7
Quote by Craigo
Do not expect more than about eight pints of beer a year.

I'm out
FALKIRK

We'll win something someday

Quote by Minkaro
Falkirk is the home of runners up.

Check out my Tunes
#8
Quote by blue_strat
The first world is just 1984-lite.

No it's not. Ten hours six days a week used to be pretty common. It's just cutting down quality of life, I make no comment on the state and its acts.
#9
Quote by aaciseric
I went for mere existance. I have a pretty good life, but to give everyone in the world a good life would be a worthwhile sacrifice ... I think. Bloody tough one though.


+1

It's not the best but in the end it seems worth it.
#13
Quote by Craigo
No it's not. Ten hours six days a week used to be pretty common. It's just cutting down quality of life, I make no comment on the state and its acts.

Without intervention from the state, you wouldn't have people just drinking 8 pints a year etc. Your hypothetical life is impossible due to Alcoholics' Law!
#14
so basically, 1984 or 2009?

2009, clearly. I'll make myself a decent life thanx
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#15
Quote by blue_strat
Without intervention from the state, you wouldn't have people just drinking 8 pints a year etc. Your hypothetical life is impossible due to Alcoholics' Law!

You only have that much because of money restraints and other priorities.
#16
Would there be any incentive to do great things? Everything seems like it would be so mundane and average...and pointless.
#18
Quote by Craigo
You only have that much because of money restraints and other priorities.

Since when has that stopped people?
#19
Quote by RockInPeaceDime
Would there be any incentive to do great things?.

If you can do it in your own time and you're willing to cost into your beer money of 8 pints a year or eat less, and you have the motivation, sure. You can paint or draw or write or do sports. But remember there's key restraints.
#20
Quote by Tastytaco
I find our world satisfying enough; while alot of people suffer in our world, the majority aren't doing too badly.

since when?
You're using UG classic, congratulations.
You should be using UG classic.




E-Married to Guitar0Player

http://the llama forum because its gone forever which sucks and I hate it.
#23
Holy crap first world is dream, though no guitar would be hard. I don't really drink anyway, so I don't find that to be a problem (I would probably ration my pints out to people, if plausible in this world).

First book choice would for sure be The Brothers Karamazov. I'm not sure what the other choice would be, but as of now I'd choose Crime And Punishment.

I am NOT choosing it for saving people at all, I am choosing it because I am selfish and like that sort of thing; probably the most fun I had this year was doing 6-10 hour days at the Salvation Army. Last year I loved my 8-5 work day (really like 7-6 because of public transportation). I want a world like this.

I'd prefer just an 8 hour day, or do the 10 hour day with a bit more break (it would be like a 12 hour day, really, with breaks factored in). What did I do during my breaks? Walked. My brother and I would just walk around town either talking or just in complete silence. Sometimes I would sit in the park and people watch during break instead of walk, but usually it was walking.
Lord Gold feeds from your orifices and he wants to see you sweat.
Lord Gold probes you publicly and makes your pussy wet.
Now say his name.....
#24
Quote by Craigo
If you're willing to starve your family for beer, sure, go for it. The majority of people won't do it though.

If you don't have enough money for beer, but enough for a family; then that suggests either that beer prices have illogically soared, or state/religious/moral intervention that would not be observed by most people unless it was enforced.
#25
I would go with our world anyday. In the world you describe, you say that there is not many decent educational prospects, thus not a single chance of social advancement. The thing is that most humans (me included) feel the need to "be better", improve their life, in regards to others. Which is partly why such a world could never come into existence. But also, I think that such a world devoid of "friction" and competition would kill human values such as creativity, critical thought etc...
#26
Quote by Tastytaco
the majority aren't doing too badly.


Sure, if you live in petit-bourgeois fantasy land.

I picked the first option.
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#27
I feel like i'm already part of the mere existence though,

would you be allowed hobbies in mere existence?
They made me do push ups in drag

I'm gonna have a really hard time if we're both cannibals and racists.

Don't dress as a whore, he'll thump you.

I'm a firework, primed to go off
#28
Quote by blue_strat
If you don't have enough money for beer, but enough for a family; then that suggests either that beer prices have illogically soared, or state/religious/moral intervention that would not be observed by most people unless it was enforced.

I'll remind you that this is a hypothetical scenario. Stop moaning. If you want to take everything so literally go to an autistic support group.


If anyone takes that too harshly, I'm aware of the struggle autisitic people have. I've done work with them, they're actually cool unique people a lot of the time.
#30
Although I'd love things to be equal. It never will be as there is always someone who wants the power.
#31
Quote by padgea7x
I feel like i'm already part of the mere existence though,

would you be allowed hobbies in mere existence?

Within time and money restrictions, sure. Take the beer money to do something else.
#32
Quote by Craigo
In a world where hierarchy suppresses the quality of one's existence?


Oh there's heirarchy? You didn't mention that, although it probably should've been obvious. Whatever, I picked the wrong option then

Quote by Greenie_777
Although I'd love things to be equal. It never will be as there is always someone who wants the power.


Just because someone wants power doesn't mean you have to give it to them.
.
#33
Quote by Greenie_777
Although I'd love things to be equal. It never will be as there is always someone who wants the power.

There isn't equality. I should of made this known.

This is the existence of the vast majority of people, the rest are better off. This includes statesman, factory owners, etc. This isn't some 'let's all be happy and equal land'.
#34
Our world.
On vacation from modding = don't pm me with your pish
#35
Quote by Craigo
I'll remind you that this is a hypothetical scenario. Stop moaning. If you want to take everything so literally go to an autistic support group.

So what, you created a thread to muse about the possibilities that could exist in a middle-class intellectual's idea of utopia, so that other middle-class intellectuals could agree with you that this impossible land is indeed better than what we actually have?

If you want to live like you idealise, how about starting a commune or something rather than talking on the Internet about it?
#36
I choose our world because I shouldn't care about starving people in Africa. I can't do anything to help them and there's no reason to leave behind all that I've gained to barely get by with barely any fun.
There will be zero tolerance
For the creator of hallowed intentions
There will be zero tolerance
Fate is your deciding God
#37
Well, the choice is given...but it is hypothetical, clearly. A person's choices are very likely to change under said circumstances..


...Frankly, I will take the mere existence. My life is above average, but there is no purpose to how I live, or why I live. With a mere existence, those whom do not have the chance to grow, are now given a chance. Better let the ones meant for living, have that chance.
#38
Quote by blue_strat
So what, you created a thread to muse about the possibilities that could exist in a middle-class intellectual's idea of utopia, so that other middle-class intellectuals could agree with you that this impossible land is indeed better than what we actually have?

If you want to live like you idealise, how about starting a commune or something rather than talking on the Internet about it?

He hasn't stated any views, only corrected misconceptions about the nature of the OP.
#39
Yeah, everyone gets by, but it's not all of the poor, starving people committing suicide all over the place, is it? Just because you blur the lines of social status and make sure that everybody is a nice little worker drone does not make it a better world. It makes it a Fascist wet dream with some twisted elements.

Suffering will find a way to prevail, because it is necessary, no matter what form it comes in. Be it poverty, depression, loss, or all of those things combined. Since I do not know any other world, I will take our world. Because the enemy you know is better than the one you don't know.
Catch me,
heal me,
Lift me back up to the Sun
I choose to live
#40
I hate to start involving politics in this but:

Quote by blue_strat
So what, you created a thread to muse about the possibilities that could exist in a middle-class intellectual's idea of utopia, so that other middle-class intellectuals could agree with you that this impossible land is indeed better than what we actually have?


Yeah all those peasants and factory workers that fought in Spain, Russia, Italy etc for equality and the end of the class system were totally middle class intellectuals.

And evaluating ideologies by the class background of those who espouse them is how Marxists think, not that you care, just found that amusing.

My dad works for the Royal Mail by the way.
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Last edited by Nietsche at Nov 24, 2009,
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