#1
So what i've been doing is using the Pentatonic Minor Scale, which everyone knows has 5 patterns, and starting off with the First pattern in the Key of A and doing that till I have it down. After that i'd been add in the missing notes around the 1st pattern and practice that till I have it down.

I have done this for the first and second pattern and i'm getting to the rest of the patterns.

So what I want to know is should I be doing this or doing it another way?

Also i know I shouldn't learn the patterns, but the notes in the scale. I'm getting to that. I've already started learning some theory. I'll get to it.
#2
Its not that you shouldn't use patterns - patterns are very useful. But you should understand whats behind the pattern too.

If you're filling in the missing notes for the major scale look at it in terms of intervals too, and look at it single string in terms of steps.

The idea is to be able to play the scale in any direction starting from anywhere on the neck, so you can find your way round it fluently when you want to use it. I don't think it really matters how you get to the point where you can use it comfortably, provided you do get there.
#3
Quote by zhilla
Its not that you shouldn't use patterns - patterns are very useful. But you should understand whats behind the pattern too.

If you're filling in the missing notes for the major scale look at it in terms of intervals too, and look at it single string in terms of steps.

The idea is to be able to play the scale in any direction starting from anywhere on the neck, so you can find your way round it fluently when you want to use it. I don't think it really matters how you get to the point where you can use it comfortably, provided you do get there.


Ok, i'm not quite sure what you mean by intervals.
#4
The spaces between notes.
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#6
Quote by zhilla
Take a look at freepower's theory vids:http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=58DA70A2123C71CD&search_query=freepower+theory

And the music theory FAQ sticky


Those vids didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. I will practice memorizing the fret board tho. That seemed like a good way of doing it.

I have also read that FAQ alot. I don;t understand all of it, but I understand most of it. I know the CoF's, but I can't recall all of it from memory.
#7
Quote by Blckspawn
Those vids didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. I will practice memorizing the fret board tho. That seemed like a good way of doing it.

I have also read that FAQ alot. I don;t understand all of it, but I understand most of it. I know the CoF's, but I can't recall all of it from memory.
Ah ok - I thought if you didn't know what intervals were Freepowers vids would help with that.

I never learnt the Co5 - I just use mnemonics - Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle for sharps, and Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father for flats
#8
Quote by zhilla
Ah ok - I thought if you didn't know what intervals were Freepowers vids would help with that.

I never learnt the Co5 - I just use mnemonics - Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle for sharps, and Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father for flats


That does make sense, but how would that help you with their relative minors?
#9
Quote by Blckspawn
That does make sense, but how would that help you with their relative minors?
The minor starts on the 6th of the relative major - so work out the major key and you can work out the relative minor
#10
Relative minor is 3 semitones down from the root note of the major. ie. C major, C D E F G A B, take C, down 3 semitones = B, A,sharp, A. A minor is A B C D E F G. Same notes, but A is minor
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#11
That's not really a great way of explaining it, it's the kind of thing that gets people overly fixated on patterns and thinking they have to move round to change scales - rather than looking at the scale as a whole and the notes it contains.

It's important to understand that what with the relative minor you basically have the same thing but in a different context, not two completely separate things.
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#12
Be honest, how many of our favourite guitarists have been learning 'scale patterns' and ''memorizing the fretboard'' when they were young . They played their ****ing guitar, If you want to learn how to play the guitar you should play with it not waste your time with pointless theory.
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#14
Arguments? I'm not saying learning theory is destructive; the way 99% of Ug is approaching it is. It's a waste of time and makes you a boring mechanical player
Quote by razorback91
Im sorry, I just don't see how you could argue that hardcore isn't metal. That just seems arrogant to me.

Yes, its its own kind of metal, but its still metal.
#15
Quote by 08L1V10N
Arguments? I'm not saying learning theory is destructive; the way 99% of Ug is approaching it is. It's a waste of time and makes you a boring mechanical player
Theory is just a way of describing and understanding music - Knowledge doesn't reduce your ability to be creative. The only way you'll become boring and mechanical is if you let yourself become boring and mechanical.
#16
Quote by Blckspawn
Ok, i'm not quite sure what you mean by intervals.


It is helpful to understand intervals if you want to understand scales. If Freepower's videos didn't help, maybe look at the Crusade (link in my sig) there is a lesson on intervals (Part II, I believe).

Don't listen to O8BLIV10N, he's obviously having a bad day.
#17
Quote by 08L1V10N
Arguments? I'm not saying learning theory is destructive; the way 99% of Ug is approaching it is. It's a waste of time and makes you a boring mechanical player


Honestly, learning theory can only help. If you don't believe me ask any successful musician today and they'll tell you.
#18
I'm talking about the way of approaching. I don't have a judgment on theory
Quote by razorback91
Im sorry, I just don't see how you could argue that hardcore isn't metal. That just seems arrogant to me.

Yes, its its own kind of metal, but its still metal.
#19
the thing with learning on the internet is you "CAN" take on a very passive role as a learner .
so here we are talking on a forum ,
the 1st thing id say is get a pen and paper .
and start writing down the patterns .

with the patterns you can have :
fret positions
left hand finger patterns
some times you can replace the "dots" with intervals .
if you go to davejonesguitar.co.uk you will find some really useful patterns for scales , but
my advice is you have to Rewrite them yourselves , its only by you DOING that you will truely understand .
its like cooking , you can watch a recipe on youtube or find one on google but YOU have to COOK the food .
learning is a verb , a doing word .
its the same with learning theory .

other areas you can look into , are aural awareness that is being able to recognise the notes in the patterns you have learnt .
sight reading will help too , thats a good call that you are looking into that.
oh yes one last "golden nugget " for you ,
perform your scales
if you take a music exam you would most likely have to perform your scales ,
here you should aim to not go back if you make a mistake but focus on your relationship with the listening , aim for a good tone and sense of phrasing to the scales .

best wishes
d
#20
Quote by 08L1V10N
I'm talking about the way of approaching. I don't have a judgment on theory


There's no 'only way' of learning theory. You're not one to talk if you don't have a judgement on theory, which this thread is about. There are many ways to approach theory and none of them are necessarily wrong. Everybody learns differently.

That being said, TS if that works for you then do it.
#22
Quote by Blckspawn


Also i know I shouldn't learn the patterns.


I would suggest rethinking this. You have to look beyond the advice of disgruntled people that learned patterns before they learned music, and now blame their mistake on the patterns themselves.

My advice, is that you SHOULD learn the patterns, and anything else that's relevant/helps you achieve your goal.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 27, 2009,
#23
^ Yeah, I don't see why not. Many people think if they learn the patterns it would limit what they play. I don't see how, it just teaches you the notes you can play in each position. Then you can build off that. It's also extremely helpful learning the notes on the fretboard.

Well that's just what I think
#24
Quote by Blckspawn
So what i've been doing is using the Pentatonic Minor Scale, which everyone knows has 5 patterns, and starting off with the First pattern in the Key of A and doing that till I have it down. After that i'd been add in the missing notes around the 1st pattern and practice that till I have it down.

I have done this for the first and second pattern and i'm getting to the rest of the patterns.

So what I want to know is should I be doing this or doing it another way?

Also i know I shouldn't learn the patterns, but the notes in the scale. I'm getting to that. I've already started learning some theory. I'll get to it.


Yes - simply learn all the patterns.
Then start in one pattern and go up through all of them by sliding up strings to the next note up or down. (Shifting through patterns up and down the neck)
You can do so straight up and down, or with melodic patterns. (Certain sequence of notes)

A great way to practice a scale is with a drum machine. Set the drum machine to a rock groove, and jam to it by playing the scale and trying to make good rhythmic phrases. You are practicing many things simultaneously this way: your rhythm, your scale knowledge, your fretting and picking technique, phrasing. Or use a backing track. I think - It's the best way to learn.
#25
Quote by 08L1V10N
Arguments? I'm not saying learning theory is destructive; the way 99% of Ug is approaching it is. It's a waste of time and makes you a boring mechanical player


99%? Where did that number come from? Your ass?

All theory does is tell you what to call what you're playing, and helps you remember certain sounds, so that when you hear something in your head you will be able to play it as you want it to sound. It never tells you what you can and can't play. All it does is provide a quantitative way to describe music to other musicians, and eliminate the barrier between what you hear in your mind and what your fingers play. It really just speeds up allowing you to do what you want to do. It never makes you boring or mechanical. Playing the same thing over and over again makes you boring and mechanical.