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#1
I've decided to ask for a guitar modeling amp for Christmas, but I've got to keep it under $300, and the more portable it is the better. Any recommendations?
#2
Are you gigging and do you want an *actual* amp?


Line6 POD range might be right up your street.
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#4
Quote by Antis0cial
Vox AD30VT or AD50VT

/thread


no not
/thread, i didnt like those amps.

maybe a peavey vyper
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#5
Roland cubes
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#7
vypyr. stay away from line 6. i had a line 6 but now that i have a vypyr...........wow. just wow.
#9
Quote by brad_1272
yeah another good one is Line 6 Spider III 15W

You're kidding right?
He could get any of the following:
Roland Cube 30X
Peavey Vypyr 30
Vox 30 watt modeller whos name I forgot

AND YOU SUGGESTED A SPIDER? WHY?
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#10
A Fender Vibro champ XD or Super Champ XD might be for you. but your OP was pretty vague.
What Styles do you play?
Is this amp for gigging or just for practice?
Where is your closest major city?
are you willing to go used?
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
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#11
Quote by VanTheKraut
You're kidding right?
He could get any of the following:
Roland Cube 30X
Peavey Vypyr 30
Vox 30 watt modeller whos name I forgot

AND YOU SUGGESTED A SPIDER? WHY?


This, but in reverse order. Peavey might have better effects & a few more versatile features, but tone, ergonomics, & general versatility go to VOX VT.

I'm a big Roland fan, but I believe their amps are overated & overpriced.

And just say no to Spiders...
#13
Quote by jetwash69
This, but in reverse order. Peavey might have better effects & a few more versatile features, but tone, ergonomics, & general versatility go to VOX VT.

I'm a big Roland fan, but I believe their amps are overated & overpriced.

And just say no to Spiders...

er⋅go⋅nom⋅ics /ˌɜrgəˈnɒmɪks/ ur-guh-nom-iks

1. Ergonomics is the science of designing the job, equipment, and workplace to fit the worker. Proper ergonomic design is necessary to prevent repetitive strain injuries, which can develop over time and can lead to long-term disability.

I've never heard of a guitarist getting repetitive stress injury from knob turning.
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
Leave it on the press, Depress Depress Taboot Taboot.
#14
I Have a Vox 50 watt. Its great, and I got it at clearance price, which makes it even better. But there are so many models to choose from, each with distinct features. I'd get a Vox if I was you.

I haven't had much to do with Spiders but apperently theyre crap. My mate just got one, so I spose soon I'll find out.
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#15
Used Line 6 Flextone
Peavey Vypyr
Roland Cube
Vox VT

If you're playing metal though, go with the Vypyr or Flextone.
Last edited by DIMEBAGLIVEDON at Nov 25, 2009,
#17
Quote by Jhachey22
er⋅go⋅nom⋅ics /ˌɜrgəˈnɒmɪks/ ur-guh-nom-iks

1. Ergonomics is the science of designing the job, equipment, and workplace to fit the worker. Proper ergonomic design is necessary to prevent repetitive strain injuries, which can develop over time and can lead to long-term disability.

I've never heard of a guitarist getting repetitive stress injury from knob turning.


Although the second sentence in your definition sheds some light on one application of ergonomics (_one_ [of many] reason why people care about ergonomics), it is far from the only application.

The other problem with taking this definition too literally is that it doesn't necessarily involve workers. The point of ergonomics is the interaction between a man-made object and the user. It doesn't magically cease to be ergonomics if the user is a consumer instead of a worker.

By ergonomics, I mean that the way the knobs function and are labeled is much more intuitive in the Vox, much simpler, logical, and easier to use without reading a manual than on the Vyper.

Peavey gets lots of different functions out of the same knobs on that amp, but many of them aren't labled and there's no display to tell you what your doing (like you'd find on a high-end multi-effects pedal through a 10-character LED or an LCD display. All you get is generically labeled knobs that control multiple parameters of multiple effects and either red or green LEDs around those knobs to let you know what's going on if you have the decoder key. This extra complexity gives you more control of effects on the Vyper than you'd have on the VT, but there's a much more steep learning curve, and it doesn't come close to what you'd get out of a decent multi-effects pedal, even if you got a Sampera II control pedal for it. Also I'm not a fan of them claiming 24 amp models when it's really just 12 models with a clean and crunch channel on each. I don't see a need for that when you have a gain control. If this is all that Vox is really doing this with 11 positions x 2 banks, then at least they're more creative in their descriptions of the models.

That's why the Vyper has more versatile features--you get better control over the effects (if you have the manual handy, have great memory, or have time to futz around forever with trial & error), you can plug straight into a PC with USB, and you can get a pretty advanced foot controller (the Sampera pedals).

But since the VOX controls are simpler, more straightforward, and more intuitive, IMHO it represents better ergonomics.

This is subjective. Some folks like MACs & hate PCs, others the opposite. Same thing for cameras; I prefer Nikon ergonomics over Canon (both the tactile shape & feel, as well as the control layout and software interface), although for years the Nikons lagged in capability (smaller sensors, more noise at higher ISO levels, lower ISO range, etc). I don't have to be (and I'm not) a professional photographer for this to be a matter of ergonomics, and it has nothing to do with carpal tunnel syndrome or any other malady.

I hinted that the VOX is more versatile over all but didn't elaborate. I based that on the Vox's built-in attenuator. I didn't specify that before because a few of the higher wattage Vypers have a "power sponge" and because I don't have experience with those models. Plus that's not available in the listed price range. Bottom line-you can get whatever tone you want with the VOX at any volume.

BTW, the Fender modeling tube amps are nice, but I don't think you get the value for the money (lower wattage, less features, lower capabilities, and a lot more ambiguity about what the models represent). And if I were going with Fender, it'd have to have a real spring reverb.

Also, I don't own either of those amps or a cube, but I've been shopping around. GAS won out over AAS, though so no new amp for me for a long time. :-p
#18
Quote by Juadafi
Are you gigging and do you want an *actual* amp?


This amp would not be for gigging. It'd be for recording/practicing. I'm looking for something that can emulate as wide a variety of sounds as possible in a portable size.
#19
Used Flextone !
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#20
One of the cheaper PODs and a good set of headphones.
It comes with a cord to connect to your computer to record.
#22
Used Flextone, I just missed one for $200CAD. I'm kicking myself.
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#23
The Vox AD30VT-XL can do metal fine. The XL series was their high gain models and it can do lots of styles. I went to get a Vypyr 15 and got a used Vox AD30VT-XL for only 20 bucks more and its in perfect shape. It was used like 10 times and never again. I like the fact that it doesn't have a lot of models or effects but for what it does have, it does well. I was using guitar rig before and I got sucked into just finding preset for songs or artists, click on it and have no idea what was going in with effects, amps or anything. With the Vox, I've really been learning to use like 3 different models and how to tweak the knobs and use my guitar and playing to get different sounds and styles rather than having hundreds of presets to click on or select and say Metallica or Eric Clapton, ya go.

Just my two cents, but sometimes less is better and having too many presets and models, you don't learn how to understand how to get different sounds. Plus the Vox has direct out for recording, headphone jack and volume attenuator and the XL 30 watt model comes with a 12" speaker that blows any 8 or 10 inch cube or vypyr out of the water for sound or dynamic range. This thing is LOUD.
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#24
Well I tried the Vox VT30 at the store and I could get an 80s metal, Metallica sound but nothing heavier. I tried a Flextone too and I was thoroughly impressed by its versatility.
Fender 1996 Floyd Rose Standard Stratocaster
Epiphone SG G-400

Laney TT50-112

Ibanez Weeping Demon
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Visit my site for some FREE RE-AMPING! http://www.wix.com/reamps/reamp
#26
Quote by jetwash69
Although the second sentence in your definition sheds some light on one application of ergonomics (_one_ [of many] reason why people care about ergonomics), it is far from the only application.

The other problem with taking this definition too literally is that it doesn't necessarily involve workers. The point of ergonomics is the interaction between a man-made object and the user. It doesn't magically cease to be ergonomics if the user is a consumer instead of a worker.

By ergonomics, I mean that the way the knobs function and are labeled is much more intuitive in the Vox, much simpler, logical, and easier to use without reading a manual than on the Vyper.

Peavey gets lots of different functions out of the same knobs on that amp, but many of them aren't labled and there's no display to tell you what your doing (like you'd find on a high-end multi-effects pedal through a 10-character LED or an LCD display. All you get is generically labeled knobs that control multiple parameters of multiple effects and either red or green LEDs around those knobs to let you know what's going on if you have the decoder key. This extra complexity gives you more control of effects on the Vyper than you'd have on the VT, but there's a much more steep learning curve, and it doesn't come close to what you'd get out of a decent multi-effects pedal, even if you got a Sampera II control pedal for it. Also I'm not a fan of them claiming 24 amp models when it's really just 12 models with a clean and crunch channel on each. I don't see a need for that when you have a gain control. If this is all that Vox is really doing this with 11 positions x 2 banks, then at least they're more creative in their descriptions of the models.

That's why the Vyper has more versatile features--you get better control over the effects (if you have the manual handy, have great memory, or have time to futz around forever with trial & error), you can plug straight into a PC with USB, and you can get a pretty advanced foot controller (the Sampera pedals).

But since the VOX controls are simpler, more straightforward, and more intuitive, IMHO it represents better ergonomics.

This is subjective. Some folks like MACs & hate PCs, others the opposite. Same thing for cameras; I prefer Nikon ergonomics over Canon (both the tactile shape & feel, as well as the control layout and software interface), although for years the Nikons lagged in capability (smaller sensors, more noise at higher ISO levels, lower ISO range, etc). I don't have to be (and I'm not) a professional photographer for this to be a matter of ergonomics, and it has nothing to do with carpal tunnel syndrome or any other malady.

I hinted that the VOX is more versatile over all but didn't elaborate. I based that on the Vox's built-in attenuator. I didn't specify that before because a few of the higher wattage Vypers have a "power sponge" and because I don't have experience with those models. Plus that's not available in the listed price range. Bottom line-you can get whatever tone you want with the VOX at any volume.

BTW, the Fender modeling tube amps are nice, but I don't think you get the value for the money (lower wattage, less features, lower capabilities, and a lot more ambiguity about what the models represent). And if I were going with Fender, it'd have to have a real spring reverb.

Also, I don't own either of those amps or a cube, but I've been shopping around. GAS won out over AAS, though so no new amp for me for a long time. :-p



I didn't bother reading this whole thing because after the first few lines I couldn't stop laughing at how ignorant and flat out wrong you are about the meaning of ergonomics


TS: Look into a used Flextone - imo they are much better than a vypyr, cube, or valvetronix.
#27
Quote by i_am_metalhead
I didn't bother reading this whole thing because after the first few lines I couldn't stop laughing at how ignorant and flat out wrong you are about the meaning of ergonomics


TS: Look into a used Flextone - imo they are much better than a vypyr, cube, or valvetronix.


OK, Metalhead. I'm ready for you to teach me more than I learned in several Master's degree classes on human factors (ergonomics) and a number of years of applying that on the job for aerospace & IT, since I'm so wrong...

BTW, the International Ergonomics Association defines ergonomics as follows:

"Ergonomics (or human factors) is the scientific discipline concerned with the understanding of interactions among humans and other elements of a system, and the profession that applies theory, principles, data and methods to design in order to optimize human well-being and overall system performance."

I was focusing on the "system performance" aspect, where the amp's user is an integral part of the system. Heck without the user, the amp would never even see voltage, much less signal or control actuation.

What's your source, whatcha got to set me straight?
Last edited by jetwash69 at Nov 28, 2009,
#28
Quote by jetwash69
BTW, the Fender modeling tube amps are nice, but I don't think you get the value for the money (lower wattage, less features, lower capabilities, and a lot more ambiguity about what the models represent). And if I were going with Fender, it'd have to have a real spring reverb.

i think these amps (especially the Vibro Champ) are great value for the money. for $200, you get a real tube amp with great sounding effects that don't have the normal over-the-top sound of most built in effects, lots of different tonal options with the voicing control. and it get friggin' loud, too. Don't let the 5w fool you.

and BTW, the "Spring reverb" on the VCXD is fantastic. the only thing that it's missing is the ability to make those coll washed out sounds when you smack the amp.
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
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#29
Quote by brad_1272
yeah another good one is Line 6 Spider III 15W


No. Bad. Bad.

Roland 20W Cube
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all of the above
#30
Quote by Jhachey22
i think these amps (especially the Vibro Champ) are great value for the money. for $200, you get a real tube amp with great sounding effects that don't have the normal over-the-top sound of most built in effects, lots of different tonal options with the voicing control. and it get friggin' loud, too. Don't let the 5w fool you.

and BTW, the "Spring reverb" on the VCXD is fantastic. the only thing that it's missing is the ability to make those coll washed out sounds when you smack the amp.


I took a second look at these amps @ MF. I was thinking about the local music store prices where they want $300 for the VCXD and $400 for the SCXD, but at online prices, they are a closer match, value-wise, although it's still half the wattage at $40 more than the Vox. For home amps, wattage is more about headroom than shear volume. If I had a Vox, I'd probably attenuate it to where the speakers only receive around 2 watts most of the time. I try to keep it around 75 decibels.

As for the spring reverb, that coil wash-out sound from the springs bouncing around is the whole point of spring reverb, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, it's most dramatic when you kick it (like the beginning of Pipeline), but when it's going full tilt on a loud amp, you can also hear the amp's vibrations acting on the springs--especially on palm muted notes, like on that song's rhythm track. That could be simulated digitally, but the sensors it would take to do it realistically would cost a lot more than just doing it for real.

I'm tempted to buy the Danelectro Spring King 'cause it's $1,200 less than a Twin Reverb @ I already get close enough to that Fender tone through my current rig. It's also $450 cheaper than a Fender '63 reverb. I've seen mixed reviews on it, though, and haven't come across one in person yet.
#31
Quote by jetwash69
I took a second look at these amps @ MF. I was thinking about the local music store prices where they want $300 for the VCXD and $400 for the SCXD, but at online prices, they are a closer match, value-wise, although it's still half the wattage at $40 more than the Vox. For home amps, wattage is more about headroom than shear volume. If I had a Vox, I'd probably attenuate it to where the speakers only receive around 2 watts most of the time. I try to keep it around 75 decibels.

As for the spring reverb, that coil wash-out sound from the springs bouncing around is the whole point of spring reverb, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, it's most dramatic when you kick it (like the beginning of Pipeline), but when it's going full tilt on a loud amp, you can also hear the amp's vibrations acting on the springs--especially on palm muted notes, like on that song's rhythm track. That could be simulated digitally, but the sensors it would take to do it realistically would cost a lot more than just doing it for real.

I'm tempted to buy the Danelectro Spring King 'cause it's $1,200 less than a Twin Reverb @ I already get close enough to that Fender tone through my current rig. It's also $450 cheaper than a Fender '63 reverb. I've seen mixed reviews on it, though, and haven't come across one in person yet.

I like the Fenders more than Vox's amps because Vos just uses a preamp tube, whereas Fender's modeling amps are actual tube amps with modeling built in. just sounds better to me. Plus, the lower wattage helps you push the power tube without getting rediculously loud (although it does get pretty loud anywyas).
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
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#32
Quote by Jhachey22
I like the Fenders more than Vox's amps because Vos just uses a preamp tube, whereas Fender's modeling amps are actual tube amps with modeling built in. just sounds better to me. Plus, the lower wattage helps you push the power tube without getting rediculously loud (although it does get pretty loud anywyas).


Good to know. I've been around the Vox more than the others, but that was just jamming with a much more experienced friend back when I was just getting into all this. I checked it out again really quickly recently and it made a great impression on me compared to all the other amps in this class.

I need to sit down with them for a couple of hours and do some side-by side comparrisons. Thanks for the info, Jhachey22
#33
I'm very happy with the Fender Super Champ XD; great amp for low budget; you got 16 modeling voices (I think, correct me if I'm wrong )
Control your destiny.
#34
I did some research on the Vypyr, and unfortunately the 15 and 30w models don't come with the USB connection for recording (and the 15w doesn't come with stompbox effects). They're also not as portable as I'm looking for. Would it be possible to connect an amp to a PC without the USB connection?
#35
Quote by RabidWookie
I did some research on the Vypyr, and unfortunately the 15 and 30w models don't come with the USB connection for recording (and the 15w doesn't come with stompbox effects). They're also not as portable as I'm looking for. Would it be possible to connect an amp to a PC without the USB connection?



Yes you can use the line-in. But don't expect quality that way
#36
yeah, i'd reccomend the fender ones. I have a first run vox valvetronix. I really....really...dislike the new ones. All the gain just sucks, effects are weird. Maybe it's just me, but I can't stand the new ones. If you can get a used Vox AD50VT Valvetronix. Jump for it, they have extremely tube-like tones on cleans. And OK distortions, but they go fantastic with pedals, which is what I use for my Overdriven tones.
#37
Quote by jetwash69
words

You just wrote a multi-paragraph post on the ergonomics of amplifier knobs. Congratulations.
Quote by Spitz13
**** you, i live in uruguay.
#38
Quote by Uranutan
You just wrote a multi-paragraph post on the ergonomics of amplifier knobs. Congratulations.


Urantan, perhaps English isn't your first language. But if it is, then try "hooked on phonics". Then read it again and see the difference between amp knobs and comparisons of amps' human interfaces. A couple of paragraphs is very concise compared to the books you'd have to read on it if you were to study ergonomics at the post-graduate level and/or deal with it effectively professionally.


Quote by RabidWookie
I did some research on the Vypyr, and unfortunately the 15 and 30w models don't come with the USB connection for recording (and the 15w doesn't come with stompbox effects). They're also not as portable as I'm looking for. Would it be possible to connect an amp to a PC without the USB connection?


If recording is the priority, then you might want to consider a POD XT Live. The GNX4 with the Supermodels isn't bad either and it can record 8 tracks per song direct to a compact flash card so you don't need a computer right there.

Lots of cheaper pedals have USB recording, too, and if your computer speakers are good enough, you don't even need a real amp. Be sure to test first, so you don't buy something with latency issues.
#40
Peavey Vypyr Tube 60. It's by far the best tone I've ever heard out of a modeling amp. Amazing, especially the hi-gain models like the Diezel, JSX, and 6505 models. There was a user on here a while ago that did a test between the 6505 model on the Vypyr and the actual 6505 head. He said they sounded very similar.

Also, don't expect the best quality when recording directly out. I saw the Gearwire review and they said it was a bit dodgy. In my opinion, you can't really beat an SM57 and a quality interface.

EDIT: Sorry didn't see where you said the 15-30W were too bulky. What exactly ARE you looking for sizewise then? If you want true tube tone, maybe a Vox AC4TV?
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Last edited by soul.power at Nov 27, 2009,
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