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#3
We'll probably just build 20 new nukes.....
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#6
obama will have a conniption. he's going to say some cool, persuasive words. then we're going to wind up blowing them all to kingdom come. yay america.

seriously guys....can i like, just move to one of your houses in europe?
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#7
Well, we don't have Bush anymore, so we don't have to worry about invading that shit.

On the other hand, with Obama, it'll probably end up something along the lines of:

"Oh hey, please stop making nukes and shiz, we aren't gonna bother you, but we'd like it if you'd do as we say please. If not, you can have fun blowing up the world, it's ok, we forgive you."


I lost respect for Obama within the first six months of him in office...
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#8
Quote by Dirge Humani
Who are we to say they aren't allowed nuclear energy, just because they might make weapons?

I do agree with you to a certain extent, then the cynical part of me kicks in.
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#9
Earlier on Sunday it was reported that the Iranian parliament had urged President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's government to reduce co-operation with the IAEA.


I read IKEA

But, yeah, we're screwed.
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#10
Quote by Scribbllez

I lost respect for Obama within the first six months of him in office...

Why? Because he didn't solve the economic crisis in under a year?
Well, nobody would be able to do that, Hitler did it in a couple of years, and that was because he made the government control the entire economy, and that's not what we want, isn't it?

Or is it because he's trying to make you pay taxes so everyone could be healthy... which is actually benificial for the economy?

I think he's doing what he can, and that is improving the living standards bit by bit, and so what if he's a little more invasive in the economy. You want the crisis solved, but not in the way Obama's doing it, which is actually the only way possible.

Sorry for the rant, but it was neccesary

OT: So what if Iran builds Nuclear enrichment plants? The US has done it too, and is still storing the nuclear devices everywhere in the world (as long as it's not on US territory), nobody's questioning that...
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Last edited by poipoi at Nov 29, 2009,
#11
Quote by Cal UK
I do agree with you to a certain extent, then the cynical part of me kicks in.

- Because all Arabs are out to nuke you.
#14
Quote by poipoi
I think he's doing what he can, and that is improving the living standards bit by bit, and so what if he's a little more invasive in the economy. You want the crisis solved, but not in the way Obama's doing it, which is actually the only way possible.


Really? Is it? A Laissez Faire approach would work well too and we wouldn't have to pay rediculous taxes. We'd have more money to spend and to pump into the economy, which in the long run will help us. The problem in the first place is that we have two different philosophies running our tax system, one which makes it easier on the rich and one that gives entitlements to the poor. These two together put the majority of the tax burden on the middle class, who happens to be the majority of the population. It'd be much wiser to spread that tax equal among all the social classes.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#15
Quote by poipoi
Why? Because he didn't solve the economic crisis in under a year?
Well, nobody would be able to do that, Hitler did it in a couple of years, and that was because he made the government control the entire economy, and that's not what we want, isn't it?

Or is it because he's trying to make you pay taxes so everyone could be healthy... which is actually benificial for the economy?

I think he's doing what he can, and that is improving the living standards bit by bit, and so what if he's a little more invasive in the economy. You want the crisis solved, but not in the way Obama's doing it, which is actually the only way possible.

Sorry for the rant, but it was neccesary

OT: So what if Iran builds Nuclear enrichment plants? The US has done it too, and is still storing the nuclear devices everywhere in the world (as long as it's not on US territory), nobody's questioning that...
Thank you. Someone with some sense in them.
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#16
I think it will be much more interesting to see what the Israelis do.
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#17
Quote by tayroar
Really? Is it? A Laissez Faire approach would work well too and we wouldn't have to pay rediculous taxes.


No, no it wouldn't. In a sane economically healthy system the total rate of spending would be equal to the amount of goods. That would keep unemployment levels low whilst preventing catastrophic rises in interest. Unfortunately that never quite happens so the government needs to step in. The role of taxes is to keep spending down so that interest rates don't rise.

Laissez-faire is usually a total disaster anyway. Just look at Chile and it's 'economic miracle' presided over by the free market chicago boys. Not really the way to get out of an economic disaster.

And really do you realise what a laissez-faire approach would entail? No minimum wages, none of the rights that working people have fought hard for over the past two hundred years to win, legalising the bringing in of scab workers making union action completely innefective.

The only people who advocate laissez-faire and actually know what they're talking about are corporate shills who like watching the working classes suffer and who write dubious studies about the effectiveness of laissez-faire systems whilst totally ignoring ethics, consumer welfare, environmental damage brought on by lack of legislation etc
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Last edited by Nietsche at Nov 29, 2009,
#18
Quote by Cal UK
I do agree with you to a certain extent, then the cynical part of me kicks in.


Same. It does seem often, that the first thing they'll do with nuclear weapons, if they gain them, will hurl half a dozen missiles at Israel.
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#19
Quote by Nietsche
No, not it wouldn't. In a sane economically healthy system the total rate of spending would be equal to the amount of goods. That would keep unemployment levels low whilst preventing catastrophic rises in interest. The role of taxes is to keep spending down so that interest rates don't rise.

Laissez-faire is usually a total disaster anyway. Just look at Chile and it's 'economic miracle' presided over by the free market chicago boys. Not really the way to get out of an economic disaster.

And really do you realise what a laissez-faire approach would entail? No minimum wages, none of the rights that working people have fought hard for over the past two hundred years to win, legalising the bringing in of scab workers making union action completely innefective.

The only people who advocate laissez-faire and actually know what they're talking about are corporate shills who like watching the working classes suffer and who write dubious studies about the effectiveness of laissez-faire systems whilst totally ignoring ethics, consumer welfare, environmental damage brought on by lack of legislation etc


Well, okay, obviously complete Laissez Faire wouldn't work because then you run into monopolies and the issues of the industrial revolutions. I just meant with the tax system. Our tax system gives break to the rich, and entitlements to the poor, and the burden falls on the middle class, and it's a big burden seeing as how we're a heavily taxed country. The burden needs to be evenly distributed along all three major classes, instead of heavily in the middle.
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#20
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Curse those f*cking Swedes.
Trying to Nuke us all...

Pfft, that's just a popular half-truth.
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#21
Quote by freddaahh
Same. It does seem often, that the first thing they'll do with nuclear weapons, if they gain them, will hurl half a dozen missiles at Israel.


I highly doubt that will happen, for one Israel has all their nukes aimed at Mecca at the first sign of something like that happening and if Iran pisses off Israel, Israel has a strong ally in the west. Iran would have to be half retarded to pull something like that because that would simply put them in a war that they could not win. I have my doubts that any country would back up a country that just fired nuclear weapons at another.
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#22
Quote by tayroar
I highly doubt that will happen, for one Israel has all their nukes aimed at Mecca at the first sign of something like that happening and if Iran pisses off Israel, Israel has a strong ally in the west. Iran would have to be half retarded to pull something like that because that would simply put them in a war that they could not win. I have my doubts that any country would back up a country that just fired nuclear weapons at another.


I see your point, but I've heard time and again that so many of the Islamic countries surrounding Israel urge for its destruction. I know they'd have to be extremely foolish to attack one of the most well connected and well armed countries around. Are there any nuclear powers in that area? Is Egypt one?
Quote by DrewsGotTheLife
yea man, who ever doesnt like pantera or think they suck doesnt like metal, end of discussion, they changed the freakin world n made history, so don't be sayin they suck, have respect, same goes for machine head n lamb of god cuz their good too
#23
Quote by tayroar
Well, okay, obviously complete Laissez Faire wouldn't work because then you run into monopolies and the issues of the industrial revolutions. I just meant with the tax system. Our tax system gives break to the rich, and entitlements to the poor, and the burden falls on the middle class, and it's a big burden seeing as how we're a heavily taxed country. The burden needs to be evenly distributed along all three major classes, instead of heavily in the middle.


No we need a progressive taxation system that increases the rate of tax the further up the income ladder you get.

I know a lot of people like to talk about how rich people don't need to be taxed because they worked to get where they are but that's bullshit. Social mobility levels in the US/UK are pathetically low. And from a broader historical perspective capitalism only arises after the producing classes have been forced off of their lands and bound into wage-slavery.

Anyway, this has very little to do with impending nuclear destruction
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Last edited by Nietsche at Nov 29, 2009,
#24
Quote by Cal UK
Quote by Dirge Humani

Who are we to say they aren't allowed nuclear energy, just because they might make weapons?
I do agree with you to a certain extent, then the cynical part of me kicks in.


Dirge has a good point though, after all, if America, via the UN, can tell Iran that they cannot have nuclear energy because they might make weapons from it, surely Iran has every right, via the UN, to tell America that they should also give up nuclear energy because they not only might make nuclear weapons, but they already have made nuclear weapons, are the only nation to ever use nuclear weapons in anger and have been involved in military action against another nation more recently than Iran.
#25
Quote by tayroar
I highly doubt that will happen, for one Israel has all their nukes aimed at Mecca at the first sign of something like that happening and if Iran pisses off Israel, Israel has a strong ally in the west. Iran would have to be half retarded to pull something like that because that would simply put them in a war that they could not win. I have my doubts that any country would back up a country that just fired nuclear weapons at another.

You are naive.
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#26
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Dirge has a good point though, after all, if America, via the UN, can tell Iran that they cannot have nuclear energy because they might make weapons from it, surely Iran has every right, via the UN, to tell America that they should also give up nuclear energy because they not only might make nuclear weapons, but they already have made nuclear weapons, are the only nation to ever use nuclear weapons in anger and have been involved in military action against another nation more recently than Iran.


+1

I love how americans are so scared of being nuked by brown people in the middle east. It's basically just propaganda so that their government will have an excuse for being imperialist warmongerers.
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#27
this is how I see it going down

Iran nukes Israel

Israel nukes Mecca

America Nukes them some more

Population in middle east dwindles to some 20 mutated people

North Korea nukes America with some shitty nukes just cus they feel left out

Followed with Russia, China, India, Pakistan, France and Great Britain joining the party, anyone up for some lovely nuclear winter?
#28
Quote by tayroar
I highly doubt that will happen, for one Israel has all their nukes aimed at Mecca at the first sign of something like that happening and if Iran pisses off Israel, Israel has a strong ally in the west. Iran would have to be half retarded to pull something like that because that would simply put them in a war that they could not win. I have my doubts that any country would back up a country that just fired nuclear weapons at another.


The thing is, there are plenty of islamic fundamentalists that really doesn't give a shit about what happens. Iran happens to be a theocracy.

They are so entangled in their religion that really their only "goal" lies in the afterlife... which they pursue through gods work, which according to them is bombing shit.

What may seem to us as absolutely batshit insane may seem very rational from their point of view.
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#29
Quote by Nietsche
+1

I love how americans are so scared of being nuked by brown people in the middle east. It's basically just propaganda so that their government will have an excuse for being imperialist warmongerers.

I have no fears of Iranian nukes raining down upon Mid Michigan. Camels can't swim that far. However you are dealing with a nation that has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel. Stop being an ignorant ass.
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#30
Quote by Toolshed#9
The thing is, there are plenty of islamic fundamentalists that really doesn't give a shit about what happens. Iran happens to be a theocracy.

They are so entangled in their religion that really their only "goal" lies in the afterlife... which they pursue through gods work, which according to them is bombing shit.

What may seem to us as absolutely batshit insane may seem very rational from their point of view.


A country run by fundamentalists who like to bomb things in Gods name? Now were have I heard about that before....

Quote by Jackal58
However you are dealing with a nation that has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel. Stop being an ignorant ass.


They're developing nuclear power, not nuclear weapons.
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Last edited by Nietsche at Nov 29, 2009,
#31
Quote by Nietsche
A country run by fundamentalists who like to bomb things in Gods name? Now were have I heard about that before....



as far as I know, America isn't an extremist theocracy.
#32
Quote by Myfirstpubes


as far as I know, America isn't an extremist theocracy.


Over 50% of americans wouldn't vote for an atheist no matter how good they were as a candidate. They may not be an extremist theocracy, but their government certainly isn't exactly free from religous influence.
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#33
Quote by Nietsche
They're developing nuclear power, not nuclear weapons.

Sure they are. So tell me Neville, what inside information would you like to share with us?
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#34
Quote by Jackal58
Sure they are. So tell me Neville, what inside information would you like to share with us?


The article was about uranium enrichment plants which the Iranians insist are peaceful and is for use in nuclear power plants.

Do I trust them? Not entirely. But I haven't seen any particular reason to start hypothesising about global nuclear catastrophe yet.
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#35
Quote by Nietsche
Over 50% of americans wouldn't vote for an atheist no matter how good they were as a candidate. They may not be an extremist theocracy, but their government certainly isn't exactly free from religous influence.

you can say that with pretty much any government in the world, america is no exception.
#36
Quote by Myfirstpubes
you can say that with pretty much any government in the world, america is no exception.


Yeah, but this dispute is mostly America vs Iran which is why I singled out america.
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#37
lol americas rocket shield> all

and if it doesnt work we can rely on cpt. price
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#38
Quote by Nietsche
The article was about uranium enrichment plants which the Iranians insist are peaceful and is for use in nuclear power plants.

Do I trust them? Not entirely. But I haven't seen any particular reason to start hypothesising about global nuclear catastrophe yet.

If you have a neighbor that is constantly calling for the destruction of your home and one day you see him collecting barrels of gas, wouldn't you be a bit suspicious of his intentions?
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#39
Quote by Jackal58
If you have a neighbor that is constantly calling for the destruction of your home and one day you see him collecting barrels of gas, wouldn't you be a bit suspicious of his intentions?


Maybe your 'neighbours' tired of all your bullshit sanctions you and your buddys enforce, and wants what everyone else already has.

Both the Supreme Leader and President of Iran have said nuclear weapons are for savages. Calling for the destruction of Israels just a bunch of rhetoric. I seem to remember nearly every US president calling for an end to Communism. The diffrence being the US had the weapons to destroy the world sevral times over, Iran doesnt.
#40
Quote by Jackal58
If you have a neighbor that is constantly calling for the destruction of your home and one day you see him collecting barrels of gas, wouldn't you be a bit suspicious of his intentions?

I think Iran is actualy trying to destroy Israel a different way. It actualy looks like Iran is trying to goad Isreal into a pre-emptive strike, making them look like the aggressors, which they will then use as an excuse to call for the removal of Isreal as a state by the UN.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Nov 29, 2009,
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