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#1
What would you say contributes more to your tone with a stack? The head or the speaker cab(s)? Also, is the tone affected with the addition of a second cab, making a full stack, or just the volume?

Could you give me a rough percentage (eg head 90%/Cab 10%) or something like that?

Thanks for your help?
Gear:

Vintage VS6 (Wine Red)

Marshall VS100 Valvestate head with 4x12 angled cab

Squier Strat (Fiesta Red) 90's, Korean
#2
Quote by Eurozeppelin
What would you say contributes more to your tone with a stack? The head or the speaker cab(s)? Also, is the tone affected with the addition of a second cab, making a full stack, or just the volume?

Could you give me a rough percentage (eg head 90%/Cab 10%) or something like that?

Thanks for your help?

The head mostly but cabs and speakers help out a lot. I don't know a percentage.
#3
I'd say 90% head

5% cab

4% speakers

1% pickups.
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can't i just eat the fucking cactus?

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So, West...

I hear you'll suck my cat...

Ill suck your cat
PEACE LOVE PANCAKES
call me zach

chocolate chip pancakes!
#4
quick someone close this thread before it turns into another, "tone is is your fingers" thread.

thats being said, the head will have more of an impact on tone but cabinets to me make a massive difference. also having more speakers ie having a fullstack will also impact your tone, you will get a tighter low end. having gone from 4 to 1 speaker i can tell you the difference is pretty drastic.
#6
Quote by westdyolf
I'd say 90% head

5% cab

4% speakers

1% pickups.

Bigger percentage than that.
#7
Trying to build a model of what accounts for how much of your tone is a bit of a mug's game - no offense, but I think it's a tad silly to try. However, I would say with a good bit of certainty that while speakers are definitely a big part of sound, no change of speakers will have as big a result as changing the head.

Also, take note of the difference between speakers and speaker cabs. Two different things. Different speakers obviously sound different - Celestion V30s don't sound like Eminence Lady Lucks, etc. A speaker cab can affect it too - the way it's constructed, e.g. closed-back vs. open-back.

And to your last bit: the addition of a second cab can add some bass and projection capability.
#8
Quote by jamesfarr
Bigger percentage than that.


Unless your gonna throw out a number...

FUUUUUUU!
Quote by 23:50 inbleach
can't i just eat the fucking cactus?

Quote by WildChicken
Go suck a cat westdyolf!

Quote by Cat Of Pain
So, West...

I hear you'll suck my cat...

Ill suck your cat
PEACE LOVE PANCAKES
call me zach

chocolate chip pancakes!
#9
The main reason I want to know is because with Christmas coming up, I was thinking of either buying a new head or cab, although both would be too much, so it's one or the other.

I understand the "tone is in the fingers" thing, but when I said "tone" I meant ignoring the guitar and the person playing it, just the head and cab.

I don't know what you mean about pickups being only 1% - Do you mean to suggest that with the exact same amp as Jimmy Page, your single coil equipped strat could sound 99% like a 59' Les Paul?

I dunno, I think I can see where you're coming from that tone is far more the person who plays. I mean, it might just be my imagination, but when I play a strat, it seems to sound a bit more like humbuckers when I play it because most of the music I play was originally played on humbucking guitars? I dunno, maybe I'm wrong.
Gear:

Vintage VS6 (Wine Red)

Marshall VS100 Valvestate head with 4x12 angled cab

Squier Strat (Fiesta Red) 90's, Korean
#10
On the Page thing, no. It mean's that if you had a Les Paul with burstbuckers in it, if you changed them to BKPs or whatever, it wouldn't make a vastly noticeable difference neccesarily.

It's in the head fo' sure. I'd definitely get a new head if I were in your situation, and then pick up a better cab later on down the line.
#11
Quote by Eurozeppelin
I don't know what you mean about pickups being only 1% - Do you mean to suggest that with the exact same amp as Jimmy Page, your single coil equipped strat could sound 99% like a 59' Les Paul?

This is what the first bit of my post was talking about - tone is not a puzzle, with some pieces being bigger than others, it's more like... well, I don't have an analogy.
Quote by Eurozeppelin
The main reason I want to know is because with Christmas coming up, I was thinking of either buying a new head or cab, although both would be too much, so it's one or the other.

What are your current head and cab? This isn't a suggestion thread - but it could help.
#12
Ok forget the thing I said about percentages then So a head would be the way to go? - alright

Is there a cheaper, similar head to the Marshall 1987X (Which I hear is the best head for Led Zep - esque tones)?

Thanks,
Gear:

Vintage VS6 (Wine Red)

Marshall VS100 Valvestate head with 4x12 angled cab

Squier Strat (Fiesta Red) 90's, Korean
#13
Cabs and speakers are important. Maybe not as important as the head or amp itself. But they definately shape your tone alot more then just a simple tweak.
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#14
Looking at your sig, I see you're using a VS100 - in that case, yeah, I'd say a new head is definitely the way to go. Getting a better cab will help later on, but that one should do for now.

There a probably dozens of plexi clones out there. Ceriatone leaps to mind, though I'm not sure that meets your criteria of "cheaper;" I don't remember how much those go for. Peavey Classic 30s can get some pretty sweet Zeppelin tones. (By "Zeppelin tone," I'm referring to the kind of crunch he had on How the West Was Won - there are so many different Zeppelin tones in their repertoire!) Loads of amps can do that plexi crunch.
#15
Quote by westdyolf
Unless your gonna throw out a number...

FUUUUUUU!

Ok. 15%. Happy?
#16
Quote by westdyolf
I'd say 90% head

5% cabe

4% speakers

1% pickups.


What? No. I guess if you're using high resistance HBs the whole time you won't notice a difference but the difference between a Tele bridge pickup and an EMG active pickup is bigger than the difference between an AC15 and AC30.
#20
Quote by CatharsisStudio
hahaha claude used the word re-amp


boy you've been talking to me way to much

its both really but lets take it a step further


Head 40
cab 40
pups 10
wood 9
room 1


Nah some guy named Kevin Saeel or something does that reamping mojo, i just remember a couple of things from the post he had somewhere on here.
#21
Lets not do the percantage thing on tone, it'll turn this thread into another big mess.
TS is in the UK, which means Valvepower!! £300 and then you'd probably be able to pick up a nice orange 212 without much more saving, perfect for those old plexi tones
#22
Everything matters, trying to put a percentage on it is trying to simplify somewhat complicated interactions between everything in your signal chain.

Amp matters, cab matters, speakers matter, guitar matters, pickups matter. They are all important. A bad head will not really sound that great, but the wrong speakers with a good head can still ruin your sound. My Marshall AVT through a set of G12H30s sounds about 10x better than my JTM45 through a cab with G12T75s. If you're trying to get a specific tone, then nothing is trivial. Everything is important and everything matters.
#23
Quote by Eurozeppelin
Ok forget the thing I said about percentages then So a head would be the way to go? - alright

Is there a cheaper, similar head to the Marshall 1987X (Which I hear is the best head for Led Zep - esque tones)?

Thanks,


i'm not sure how similar it is to the 1987x (i'm not too well up on vintage marshalls), but this does zeppelin really well:

http://www.valvepower.co.uk/index.htm

EDIT: beaten to it

Quote by al112987
Everything matters, trying to put a percentage on it is trying to simplify somewhat complicated interactions between everything in your signal chain.


agreed
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 30, 2009,
#25
Quote by Eurozeppelin
Ok forget the thing I said about percentages then So a head would be the way to go? - alright

Is there a cheaper, similar head to the Marshall 1987X (Which I hear is the best head for Led Zep - esque tones)?

Thanks,
I don't see why the 1987 would be the best for Led Zeppelin tones when Page used 1959s.

The 100 watter and 50 watter differ in much more than just volume.
#26
Quote by forsaknazrael
^It's pretty similar. They remove the TMB tonestack, and simplify the multiple inputs thing.


thanks. i'm guessing that it's as close as you're going to get for around that price, but i could be wrong.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
I also recommend ValvePower, great for Zeppelin.
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#28
I reckon...

Head: Seventy-five percent.
Cab (inc. speakers): 20%
Guitar: 5%
Wait.



Roger Waters - 12th May!
#29
I like this explanation, though any explanation will by default be an over-simplification, you hear whatever the lowest quality part of your chain is, the most...

So kind of a 'weakest link' type of thing.
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#30
whats more my tone, head or cab? i'd say that its mostly how much beer the audience drinks.
#31
Short form: a good head will sound ok through bad speakers, but amazing speakers will not make up for a sh*ty head.
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#32
I say its pertty equal. The tone part with the amp its about 50-50. Since if you have nice speaker and a crappy amp, you dont sound good, and if you have a nice amp and crappy speaker, you still dont sound good. They really have to work together to creat a good tone. You cant just say its one or the other, because without each other you will have shit tone. Thats the facts.

Pickups make up alot of tone, wood, when it comes to electric, not so much, and beleive it or not but cables do affect your tone very slightly.

So it prolly goes like this without the eletist crap clogging it up.

Your tone consists of:

Amp head=30%
Speaker Cab=30%
Pickups=20%
Wood=15%
Cables=5%
#33
I guess you could do some high quality recordings of a note (different notes, chords too), replacing desired components one at a time, and analyzing the waveforms produced. I think you could at least somewhat quantify the amount of tone change by looking at the power spectrum from a fourier transform, and looking at how different frequencies are changed with different speakers, cabs, etc. Time domain analysis wouldn't be as useful I imagine since the ear isnt very sensitive to the phase of the harmonic frequencies present.

You'd also have to consider the frequency response of the human ear, since large changes in the power spectrum might not characterize large tonal differences at frequencies that the ear doesn't respond well to.

Im not sure how exactly you would convert the differences in the power spectrum etc into a percentage, still this would be an interesting experiment to do
#34
I'm not gonna go that far! analysing notes and all that stuff! I'm just looking for a rough idea!

There've been some great responses to this, but I think the one about how much beer the audience drank has to take the cake

Thanks for all this - now I have one more question, and it's probably not worth wasting another thread on:

Ok, so I want to buy this Squier of Ebay (To convert to a HSS/Fat strat)

This Squier is red, and it's got the old 60's style headstock, so my guess it's one of the Korean strats (YN Serial number)

But I asked for the serial number, and they said all it says on the neck plate is "2"? Anyone know what this is?

This is the Squier I've got a good price on it,

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140363500306&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
Gear:

Vintage VS6 (Wine Red)

Marshall VS100 Valvestate head with 4x12 angled cab

Squier Strat (Fiesta Red) 90's, Korean
#36
No I don't know if it's a Korean, I'm guessing, cause I have a friend who has one with the same headstock, looks the same, and I've never seen one with that headstock on any other squier except the classic vibe 60's one, and it's not that one for sure
Gear:

Vintage VS6 (Wine Red)

Marshall VS100 Valvestate head with 4x12 angled cab

Squier Strat (Fiesta Red) 90's, Korean
#38
i definitely get a new head if i was in your situation cuz VS cab is decent
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#39
Quote by tubetime86
I like this explanation, though any explanation will by default be an over-simplification, you hear whatever the lowest quality part of your chain is, the most...

So kind of a 'weakest link' type of thing.
best way put thus far. +1
#40
yeah, i subscribe to the "weakest link" philosophy, too. It's a bit of a simplification/generalisation, as tubetime himself admitted, but it's actually a lot more accurate than a lot of the generalisations I've seen. You won't go too far wrong if you go by it, in other words, which can't be said for a lot of the generalisations I see around here.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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