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#1
Hey. Forgive me if this sounds weird.

For whatever reason I've been thinking a lot about death recently, more so afterlife, and I've deduced that I want to die. I'm not gonna kill myself cos quite frankly, everything in my life is fantastic right now, but I'd like to die just for a few minutes and then be pulled back, kinda like on the operating table.

I just want to see what I see. Logically, there would be nothing, the personality, spirit, soul is just a part of your brain, so would die with the rest of your body, but I don't wanna believe this, so I wanna see for myself. Prove myself right or wrong.

So yeah.

So this isn't a blog, discuss what you think, your views on afterlife or whatever.

Peace.
#2
What you want to believe is irrelevant. Get over it
Check out my band Disturbed
#5
Quote by homeless-john
Hey. Forgive me if this sounds weird.

For whatever reason I've been thinking a lot about death recently, more so afterlife, and I've deduced that I want to die. I'm not gonna kill myself cos quite frankly, everything in my life is fantastic right now, but I'd like to die just for a few minutes and then be pulled back, kinda like on the operating table.

I just want to see what I see. Logically, there would be nothing, the personality, spirit, soul is just a part of your brain, so would die with the rest of your body, but I don't wanna believe this, so I wanna see for myself. Prove myself right or wrong.

So yeah.

So this isn't a blog, discuss what you think, your views on afterlife or whatever.

Peace.



The conciosness and soul are not a physical part of the brain so they don't neccesarily die with the physical elements of the body.
We'll be washed and buried one day my friend
And the time we were given will be left for the world
The flesh that lived and loved will be eaten by plague
So let the memories be good for those who stay
#6
There probably isn't an afterlife dude. All you will experience if you were to die for a few minutes then come back would be somewhat like a dreamless sleep I imagine, much like before your conception. Nothing. No concept of space or time, because you would not exist to have such conceptions.

You would probably wake up and not remember anything about it (again like a dreamless sleep).

Be realistic I think; don't fool yourself into thinking there is an afterlife. There probably isn't.
What is mountains? A mountains has no special shapes or sound!



Epic Chill Broseph Of the Australia FTW! Club. PM Alter-Bridge or The_Random_Hero to join.

#8
Quote by Malakian=God
The conciosness and soul are not a physical part of the brain so they don't neccesarily die with the physical elements of the body.


There is no evidence to suggest there is even such a thing as a soul. And consciousness is indeed a physical part of the brain, a fact for which any neuro-scientist can vouch.
What is mountains? A mountains has no special shapes or sound!



Epic Chill Broseph Of the Australia FTW! Club. PM Alter-Bridge or The_Random_Hero to join.

#9
Quote by Athabasca
There probably isn't an afterlife dude. All you will experience if you were to die for a few minutes then come back would be somewhat like a dreamless sleep I imagine, much like before your conception. Nothing. No concept of space or time, because you would not exist to have such conceptions.

You would probably wake up and not remember anything about it (again like a dreamless sleep).

Be realistic I think; don't fool yourself into thinking there is an afterlife. There probably isn't.

I think I know this, just a wee bit of denial. I just want to KNOW.
#10
i sometimes give this some thought, after all, its one of our basic human functions to wonder about the unknown, and you dont get more unknown than "what comes after death".

some people are interested, others are scared, but its crossed most peoples minds at some point, and to be honest, i really dont have any theories or ideas about what goes on. my mum has a really weird theory that she said she dreamt, that angels took our spirit away, after we die (giving a reason for the lights some people see in near death expiriences), then reuse the spirit, in making new lives.

i think its BS, but shes adamant in her ideas.

but TS, i think it would be pretty interesting to see/feel what its like, and get pulled back to life, but i think it would have a huge impression on the way i lived my life after the expirience.
#11
Quote by Athabasca
There probably isn't an afterlife dude. All you will experience if you were to die for a few minutes then come back would be somewhat like a dreamless sleep I imagine, much like before your conception. Nothing. No concept of space or time, because you would not exist to have such conceptions.

You would probably wake up and not remember anything about it (again like a dreamless sleep).

Be realistic I think; don't fool yourself into thinking there is an afterlife. There probably isn't.

absolutly i mean do people even think when they say they cant comprehend death without afterlife but they dont acount for the billions of years of them not haveing concienc before birth
iron FUCKING maiden!!!
#12
Quote by Athabasca
There is no evidence to suggest there is even such a thing as a soul. And consciousness is indeed a physical part of the brain, a fact for which any neuro-scientist can vouch.



Scientists also vouched for the flat earth theory, and Newton was positive that alchemy was possible. Just because it is a strong possibility, or vouched for, does not make it fact. To be honest I dont believe that the soul does live on after death, I just think it is interesting to think about.
We'll be washed and buried one day my friend
And the time we were given will be left for the world
The flesh that lived and loved will be eaten by plague
So let the memories be good for those who stay
#13
Quote by Malakian=God
Scientists also vouched for the flat earth theory, and Newton was positive that alchemy was possible. Just because it is a strong possibility, or vouched for, does not make it fact. To be honest I dont believe that the soul does live on after death, I just think it is interesting to think about.


The flat earth theory was developed long before modern science was established as a way of thinking. People get the idea that any theory or observation of the universe automatically counts as science even if it does not follow the scientific method.

I had never heard of Newton being supportive of alchemy, and I am curious as to what source you obtained that from. But regardless it is important to remember that he was a physicist, not a chemist.
What is mountains? A mountains has no special shapes or sound!



Epic Chill Broseph Of the Australia FTW! Club. PM Alter-Bridge or The_Random_Hero to join.

#14
you sir, have alot to learn, trust me, stuff goes on.
Only certain parts are destroyed when you die, i believe there are seven sections if i remember correctly...
If I stay too quiet
I can hear her walking by
Death cold air is moving
Like the touch of her hand

ikuisesti hallussa surua,
pienentynyt enkeli, ottaa minuun,
johtaa minut tämän arvokkaan valoa,
ja ikuiseen pimeyteen.
#15
There is an afterlife.............IN your coffin @ the graveyard
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I got my sister pregnant once. Yeah, that was awkward, but mostly because she's 6 years younger than me.
#16
Just have an ego death by smoking Salvia.

You'll think you died. I'm dead serious.
Most of the important things


in the world have been accomplished


by people who have kept on


trying when there seemed to be no hope at all
#17
Quote by Blackritual0
you sir, have alot to learn, trust me, stuff goes on.
Only certain parts are destroyed when you die, i believe there are seven sections if i remember correctly...


What. Are. You. Talking. About.
What is mountains? A mountains has no special shapes or sound!



Epic Chill Broseph Of the Australia FTW! Club. PM Alter-Bridge or The_Random_Hero to join.

#19
Give it time. You'll eventually get there.
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#20
Quote by Athabasca
The flat earth theory was developed long before modern science was established as a way of thinking. People get the idea that any theory or observation of the universe automatically counts as science even if it does not follow the scientific method.

I had never heard of Newton being supportive of alchemy, and I am curious as to what source you obtained that from. But regardless it is important to remember that he was a physicist, not a chemist.



http://www.alchemylab.com/isaac_newton.htm
He devoted a large part of hi life to alchemy. Surely he can belong to more than one branch of science, its not that he had to either be a chemist or physicist.

Of course it is possible to argue that when these theories were put forward they did not have the same benefits that scientists of today have, but is that not a bit naive, as todays scientists don't yet have the facts that will have been discovered 20 years in the future.
Im sort of vague on the subject, but wasnt einstein's theory of relativity disproved for very small particles (I think maybe photons) when quantum physics discovered that thses particles could simaltaneously exist in 2 different places?
This leads on to the string theory, which is a whole new tin of worms, but oddly enough quite related to the thread topic as it also suggests the possibility of infinite life, even if this is not the main point in the theory.
Back to my point, just because the current theory at the minute is that the conciousness is a physical part of the brain does not make it a fact. Also, the conciousness does not require an energy source to function as all other physical parts of the body do, so is it really fair to label it a physical part?
We'll be washed and buried one day my friend
And the time we were given will be left for the world
The flesh that lived and loved will be eaten by plague
So let the memories be good for those who stay
#21
Quote by Nelsean
Just have an ego death by smoking Salvia.

You'll think you died. I'm dead serious.

this

it's incredible. i don't care if you're joking, it's quite possible
#22
Quote by Malakian=God
http://www.alchemylab.com/isaac_newton.htm
He devoted a large part of hi life to alchemy. Surely he can belong to more than one branch of science, its not that he had to either be a chemist or physicist.

Of course it is possible to argue that when these theories were put forward they did not have the same benefits that scientists of today have, but is that not a bit naive, as todays scientists don't yet have the facts that will have been discovered 20 years in the future.
Im sort of vague on the subject, but wasnt einstein's theory of relativity disproved for very small particles (I think maybe photons) when quantum physics discovered that thses particles could simaltaneously exist in 2 different places?
This leads on to the string theory, which is a whole new tin of worms, but oddly enough quite related to the thread topic as it also suggests the possibility of infinite life, even if this is not the main point in the theory.
Back to my point, just because the current theory at the minute is that the conciousness is a physical part of the brain does not make it a fact. Also, the conciousness does not require an energy source to function as all other physical parts of the body do, so is it really fair to label it a physical part?



Wrong. Consciousness is generated by neurons sending information across synapses in the brain. This requires energy.
Check out my band Disturbed
Last edited by StewieSwan at Nov 30, 2009,
#23
Well you could experience momentary euphoria caused by a sudden currently unexplicable burst of endorphines and other chemicals in your brain, which could make you hallucinate. You can buy drugs for a similar effect.
#24
I just can't understand why you bother yourself with it. We'll die some day anyway. Considering that the Universe is almost 14 bilion years old(and they passed somehow) , 120 years of your life isn't long to wait.
#25
Quote by Gh.
120 years of your life isn't long to wait.

Ambitious
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#26
Quote by StewieSwan
Wrong. Consciousness is generated by neurons sending information across synapses in the brain. This requires energy.



Apparently you didnt read the rest of my post other that what you highlighted, or else you just decided to throw your two cents in regardless.

Anyway, to take a different approach, I don't see how you can be as certain in your explanation of how concousness is formed, when conciousness is so intensley subjective and undefinable. For example, how can you say for certain that the colour that I call red isnt the same one you call green? Until you can be sure of these sorts of questions conciousness and reality will remain subjective and therefore evade any scientific explanation.
We'll be washed and buried one day my friend
And the time we were given will be left for the world
The flesh that lived and loved will be eaten by plague
So let the memories be good for those who stay
#27
You Cant just go to the after life and come back....that shits redundant.
Pink Floyd is Teh Best


Xbox Gamertag = Nick Schro

Lets blaze, put this in your sig if you want to get high
#28
Quote by Malakian=God
The conciosness and soul are not a physical part of the brain so they don't neccesarily die with the physical elements of the body.



Prove to me that there is such a thing as a soul.
#29
I like surprises. I don't need to know till I'm there.
Like punk the way it used to be? Deranged Youth Its like what Warped Tour should be!

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#30
I was dead for millions of years before I was born pretty boring stuff really.
When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you, but because in that brief moment, while the coin is in the air, you suddenly know what you're hoping for.
#31
Quote by Malakian=God
Anyway, to take a different approach, I don't see how you can be as certain in your explanation of how concousness is formed, when conciousness is so intensley subjective and undefinable. For example, how can you say for certain that the colour that I call red isnt the same one you call green?



Dude, what the ****...seriously. The color red has a wavelength interval of about 700–635 nm and a frequency interval of about 430–480 THz. This is not subjective. It's a concrete fact. If you disagree, it doesn't mean you see it differently. It means you're an idiot.
Check out my band Disturbed
#32
I've been dead before...when ever I was born, I was born with a a hole in my heart. And when I was two I was dead for 20 min. I can still remember what I seen. Its funny though because I don't remember anything from before I was 5.
Pink Floyd is Teh Best


Xbox Gamertag = Nick Schro

Lets blaze, put this in your sig if you want to get high
#33
Quote by StewieSwan
Dude, what the ****...seriously. The color red has a wavelength interval of about 700–635 nm and a frequency interval of about 430–480 THz. This is not subjective. It's a concrete fact. If you disagree, it doesn't mean you see it differently. It means you're an idiot.



I hope all you colour blind people realise your all idiots.
We'll be washed and buried one day my friend
And the time we were given will be left for the world
The flesh that lived and loved will be eaten by plague
So let the memories be good for those who stay
#34
Quote by Malakian=God
http://www.alchemylab.com/isaac_newton.htm
He devoted a large part of hi life to alchemy. Surely he can belong to more than one branch of science, its not that he had to either be a chemist or physicist.

Of course it is possible to argue that when these theories were put forward they did not have the same benefits that scientists of today have, but is that not a bit naive, as todays scientists don't yet have the facts that will have been discovered 20 years in the future.
Im sort of vague on the subject, but wasnt einstein's theory of relativity disproved for very small particles (I think maybe photons) when quantum physics discovered that thses particles could simaltaneously exist in 2 different places?
This leads on to the string theory, which is a whole new tin of worms, but oddly enough quite related to the thread topic as it also suggests the possibility of infinite life, even if this is not the main point in the theory.
Back to my point, just because the current theory at the minute is that the conciousness is a physical part of the brain does not make it a fact. Also, the conciousness does not require an energy source to function as all other physical parts of the body do, so is it really fair to label it a physical part?


Thanks for the link bro. You learn something new every day.

I think your analogy falls apart though because unlike Einstein's theory of Relativity and Quantum Physics (which are both scientific theories), the flat earth theory was not scientific. The flat earth theory was just an approximation made by people looking over the Earth and seeing it flat, due to it's size and hence apparently negligible curvature. Einstein's theory or Relativity (I'm assuming you're referring to Special Relativity), hasn't been disproven to the best of my knowledge. The whole theory works on the concept that photons travel at constant speed, leading to apparent variations in time and space depending on one's motion relative to an observed object.

The only one of Einstein's theories which was "disproven" as far as I know was to do with gravity. I'm pretty sure Einstein's theory of how gravity works in was "disproven" (or at least doesn't work) on very small scales. That's why they're trying to find gravitons or Higgs Boson or something to come up with a universal theory of gravity. I know extremely little about String Theory and quantum physics so I'll just take your word for it.

In any case, your main argument seems to be that ideas change over time. Yes, they do. But for there to be an extra-physical component of consciousness, science wouldn't be able to detect it anyway because every paradigm within it is based on physical evidence. All you are left with is assumptions. In other words, you can speculate endlessly on whether or not this extra-physical consciousness actually exists, but it will get you nowhere until you actually find evidence to say otherwise.

Consciousness is the transmission of energy through the brain. So of course there has to be a power source, lest there be no energy available to do work in thinking and acting as consciousness. That energy, as with all energy in living things on Earth, comes ultimately from the sun, albeit mostly indirectly through our consumption of organic matter for food. So yes, it is reasonable to conclude it is a physical component of the body.

This is a very interesting discussion.
What is mountains? A mountains has no special shapes or sound!



Epic Chill Broseph Of the Australia FTW! Club. PM Alter-Bridge or The_Random_Hero to join.

#35
My dad told me a story once. He knew a guy who was a bit of an asshole, worked alot of long hours. On night the guy was talking to their boss about something and the fucker died on the spot. Heart attack. Properly, technically dead. They took they guy to the hospital and defiblirated him, and the guy came to, alive again. He didn't bother to thank anyone, but he complained 'cause they singed his nipples.
YOU WILL LOVE EACH OTHER
YOU WILL LOVE EACH OTHER
YOU WILL LOVE EACH OTHER
YOU WILL LOVE EACH OTHER
YOU WILL LOVE EACH OTHER
YOU WILL LOVE EACH OTHER
YOU WILL LOVE EACH OTHER
//////////////////////////////////////HEALTH
#37
Quote by Malakian=God
I hope all you colour blind people realise your all idiots.



Check out my band Disturbed
#38
Quote by Athabasca
Thanks for the link bro. You learn something new every day.

I think your analogy falls apart though because unlike Einstein's theory of Relativity and Quantum Physics (which are both scientific theories), the flat earth theory was not scientific. The flat earth theory was just an approximation made by people looking over the Earth and seeing it flat, due to it's size and hence apparently negligible curvature. Einstein's theory or Relativity (I'm assuming you're referring to Special Relativity), hasn't been disproven to the best of my knowledge. The whole theory works on the concept that photons travel at constant speed, leading to apparent variations in time and space depending on one's motion relative to an observed object.

The only one of Einstein's theories which was "disproven" as far as I know was to do with gravity. I'm pretty sure Einstein's theory of how gravity works in was "disproven" (or at least doesn't work) on very small scales. That's why they're trying to find gravitons or Higgs Boson or something to come up with a universal theory of gravity. I know extremely little about String Theory and quantum physics so I'll just take your word for it.

In any case, your main argument seems to be that ideas change over time. Yes, they do. But for there to be an extra-physical component of consciousness, science wouldn't be able to detect it anyway because every paradigm within it is based on physical evidence. All you are left with is assumptions. In other words, you can speculate endlessly on whether or not this extra-physical consciousness actually exists, but it will get you nowhere until you actually find evidence to say otherwise.

Consciousness is the transmission of energy through the brain. So of course there has to be a power source, lest there be no energy available to do work in thinking and acting as consciousness. That energy, as with all energy in living things on Earth, comes ultimately from the sun, albeit mostly indirectly through our consumption of organic matter for food. So yes, it is reasonable to conclude it is a physical component of the body.

This is a very interesting discussion.



Well at the minute atoms can not be seen, we base all our theories on how they affect their surroundings. Im not saying atoms (and of course their components) do not exist, Im saying that there is no PHYSICAL evidence of them, and that they are still just a theory. I obviously strongly believe in this theory, but if we follow your logic then we would be saying that the assumptions we are making about atoms are getting us nowhere, which is obviously false.

To answer the part of gravity being "disproven", surely the theory of relativity arguement I put forward earlier can be used here, but with gravity rather than theory of relitivity, hence still making it relevant?
We'll be washed and buried one day my friend
And the time we were given will be left for the world
The flesh that lived and loved will be eaten by plague
So let the memories be good for those who stay
Last edited by Malakian=God at Nov 30, 2009,
#39
Quote by Malakian=God
Well at the minute atoms can not be seen, we base all our theories on how they affect their surroundings. Im not saying atoms (and of course their components) do not exist, Im saying that there is no PHYSICAL evidence of them, and that they are still just a theory. I obviously strongly believe in this theory, but if we follow your logic then we would be saying that the assumptions we are making about atoms are getting us nowhere, which is obviously false.

To answer the part of gravity being "disproven", surely the theory of relativity arguement I put forward earlier can be used here, but with gravity rather than theory of relitivity, hence still making it relevant?



There absolutely is physical evidence for the existence of atoms...
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#40
Quote by Athabasca
There probably isn't an afterlife dude. All you will experience if you were to die for a few minutes then come back would be somewhat like a dreamless sleep I imagine, much like before your conception. Nothing. No concept of space or time, because you would not exist to have such conceptions.

You would probably wake up and not remember anything about it (again like a dreamless sleep).

Be realistic I think; don't fool yourself into thinking there is an afterlife. There probably isn't.


hero
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