#1
Okay so last summer i created a monster basically. I wanted to create a band but i didnt know anyone who could play so i made a friend learn guitar. over time he has become a kind of stuck up bitch to put it nicely. Thinks he knows everything about guitar, things like Solidstate amps suck entirely, if its not a tube amp dont buy it.

I know its the person playing and whatever sound there looking for is what amp they should get.

But this kid has so many pedals and guitar stuff he doesnt need because honestly he doesnt know how to play guitar that well, i only taught him how to play one song and he has been trying to teach himself ever since and quite frankly has failed at it.

Now to the settling my argument. I have talked to my father and to other guitarists that have been playing for most of their life and are now in their 50's-80's.

Tone pots. This 15 year old kid says that tone pots do nothing, you wont be able to hear a change in whatever tone pots you get, they all sound the same. I want to put Gibson tone pots in my les paul copy guitar. I know from talking to other guitarists they do make the difference depending on the tone pot. I just want your opinion to prove this kid wrong.

Depending on the brand and making of the tone pot, they do sound different, right?
#2
Different pots sound very different. The difference in taper is often the most noticeable one, but the actual quality of the pot is important as well - better made pots will have better traces which will definitely effect your sound. Cheap pots bleed some signal, and not in a linear fashion, which usually equates to a harsher tone. It's not a huge difference, but there is no doubt that there is a difference.

For the record, don't bother with gibson pots. They're fine parts, but you're paying more than you should for them. Get some CTS pots with brass shafts - the RS guitarworks ones if you feel like spending a bit extra. Those are the good ones.
#3
He is also somewhat tone deaf, or he just cant sing one of the two but really im tried of him acting like he knows everything, he got like 10 people from the pit to IM me calling me a loser for saying i like the way solid state sounds and that if i wanted a tube boost id get a tube pedal.

and would the Gibson pots be worth it if they were free?
#4
It really depends on what you've got in there already, and which gibson parts they are. If they're from a relatively new instrument they should be Alpha pots (I think, don't remember for sure), which are better than what you'd typically get on an import/epi/agile. If they're from something 15+ years old, they're probably getting dirty and it's not worth putting them in.

It's going to be a pain installing them though, especially if there's a grounding plate on your instrument. I'm not sure it would be worth your time for that upgrade unless you've got really bad pots, or you're changing other electronics at the same time, or need the wiring practice.
#5
i think they are new gibson pots, a guy in my dads band would sell me them for cheap, and i have an agile and the guy has an agile and he put new gibsosn in there says it made a load of difference for tone for the agile. I need to get tone pots for my agile but then i have a Yamaha RGS 121 that needs a new tone pot, any idea what would sound good in there, maybe a Strat tone pot seeing as how the yamaha RGS 121 is basically a super strat esque guitar
#6
and im used to soldering stuff, i had to solder together the crap yamaha, i did some body work on it, basically destroying the body, its my throw away guitar, and i had to solder all the pickups and tone pots back on, but im missing the ground wire for my Single coil so it doesnt work and the two humbuckers get a buzz cause the single coil ground is missing
#7
There's not really such thing as a strat tone pot, the rule of thumb is 250K for single coils and 500K for humbuckers, then long shaft for les pauls and short for everything else.
Alpha, CTS, or CGE pots are the ones to get.
CTS are typically the best made, CGE turn very smoothly, and alpha are the industry standard - a little less expensive but good quality.
#8
There are significant differences among tone and volume pots. Some of them are intentional; some of them are unintentional. The unintentional differences result from poor quality. Everyone has probably played a guitar or bass where they turned the volume and tone knobs and saw little or no difference throughout most of the knob's range. All of the difference is found in the last 5% of the knob's radius. This is the result of poor quality pots. There should be discernible differences in volume and tone throughout the knob's turning range.

The intentional differences have to do with how much high end (treble) you get out of the tone pot. Gibson humbuckers are mainly midrange-oriented, so Gibson uses 500k pots to coax more high end out of the tone. Conversely, Fender single-coil pickups have an overabundance of high end, so Fender uses 250k pots to cut back on the high end. Some aftermarket manufacturers make 1 meg. pots to boost the highs even more.

So yes, the pots do make a noticeable difference in tone.
#9
it's not just the different pots (250k, 500k, 1 M) but maybe the manufacturer too? but bigger than that is the capacitor for each tone pot. different capacitors do different things (from making a HUGE difference in tone, to being extremely subtle).
Warmoth Telecaster Deluxe. Warmoth Strat. Seagull Artist Portrait Acoustic.

"Well good God damn and other such phrases, I haven't heard a beat like this in ages!"
-Dan Le Sac Vs The Scroobius Pip
#10
Thanks man for the insight on all of this, i mean its okay if the kid wants to think this to himself, but were in a guitar class at highschool and he goes around telling all the kids that tone pots dont do anything while im trying to teach my friend and rhythm guitarist for my band about guitar and stuff. This kid just disses everything, if its not anything he owns he doesnt like it. i mean im fine with people who know everything about guitars but when you dont know how to play guitar real well and you talk about guitar like you know everything its annoying. he is just one of those guys that thinks if he tries and knows everything and buys a bunch of stuff like pedals and amps and guitars he will sound better, I could have a 50 dollar first act from walmart and a 15 watt amp i found at a garage sale, i could still play circles around this kid
#11
I have a personal question about the wiring of my Agile 2500 Les Paul Double Cutaway copy. Its wired really well but its wired in a way that when im on the middle part of the toggle to get both pickups the pots just work for both pickups as a whole, like im not turning down the volume for one pick up or the changing the tone for one its doing it for both of them, and ive never had a les paul type guitar before so i dont know if this is standard or faulty wiring and i should have it fixed
#12
i definitely know the type if kid you're talking about haha my best advice is try to ignore him and everything he says, and one day he'll either actually teach himself how to play or somebody will put him in his place. can't stand those types of kids!

EDIT: and about your wiring, thats really strange... i've had a LP and an SG (wired really similarly) and neither did that. i'd have it checked out, should be an easy fix (the wiring on LP-style HH guitars is pretty easy to figure out).
Warmoth Telecaster Deluxe. Warmoth Strat. Seagull Artist Portrait Acoustic.

"Well good God damn and other such phrases, I haven't heard a beat like this in ages!"
-Dan Le Sac Vs The Scroobius Pip
Last edited by LifeIsABullet16 at Dec 3, 2009,
#13
the best way i can describe the kid is lets say im like the beatles and he is the jonas brothers, without me he wouldnt be playing guitar, but everyone thinks he is better because he is popular so everyone asks a kid who has only been playing guitar for a year questions he thinks he knows the answer to
#14
id take it to the sam ash up near me but the guy who does the set ups and everything there, is like a real hard ass or whatever, if your not famous or someone of importance, your guitars not really worth it to him so he does it halfassed, and im suprised the dude isnt fired
#15
hey zak, why dont you just tell this doofus to get lost?!! lol. seriously tho, I would probably not waste my time speaking to, or jamming with someone who is gonna behave like that.

peace

G
Cursed to one day crash and burn because we fly so god damn high.
#16
Man i haven't posted on here in a while .....

Hippy heaven is correct, id just tell the moron to get lost.
However i swapped out pots, capacitors, switches, input jacks, everything in my ibanez S520EX when i switched to bareknuckle pickups. Used CTS Pots and an expensive capacitor and well........ The guitar sounds absolutely amazing, the pots do of course make a difference, the quality of all the parts as a whole are what give you the sound afterall! So changing out any component will add to the sound.
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
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Stinnett M7 in the works
#17
Swapping Pots and Electronics can make a huge difference, no difference or make it sound worse it all depends on the pups. Everyone seems to push Gibson pots but they do not have to be Gibson electronics any good pot, cap or combination will work and do some research on what's recommended for the type of pups your using. FatalGear41 is correct choosing pots depends on what pups your using as well as the caps. I have swapped pups in some guitars that didn't sound good until I swapped the caps or the pots just didn't work well with the pups and ended up putting the old electronics back in. Sometimes a little experimenting is the way to go but getting info from the pup manufacturer can help. I know people who put Used EMGs in guitars and left the original Electronics in because the pups didn't come with the pots and the guitars failed miserably until they got the correct parts. What's good for one guitar might not necessarily work on another.

It does sound like you created a monster though. I have played with a lot of guitarists that had that attitude they were great guitarists but were horrible people to get along with. Your better off finding someone who has a better personality. Some time these guys come around after being fired from several bands.


John
#18
TS your gonna run into these kind of people all thru life. You can let em get to you or just ignore them and move on. People like that thrive on the attention they get, yea he may be convincing many around him he is an authority. And many will listen, the morons, but many others just roll their eyes and do their own thing. He does sound like the typical poser tons of unused equipment and convinced they are the next EVH yet cant play very well at all. Maybe he will wise up, unlikely. Most people like that just get more full of it as they get older, eventually just becoming a running joke later in life.

If you are happy with your gear good for you. And asking questions vs spewing the same uninformed answers makes you the wiser man.
#19
Quote by Tackleberry
TS your gonna run into these kind of people all thru life. You can let em get to you or just ignore them and move on. People like that thrive on the attention they get, yea he may be convincing many around him he is an authority. And many will listen, the morons, but many others just roll their eyes and do their own thing. He does sound like the typical poser tons of unused equipment and convinced they are the next EVH yet cant play very well at all. Maybe he will wise up, unlikely. Most people like that just get more full of it as they get older, eventually just becoming a running joke later in life.

If you are happy with your gear good for you. And asking questions vs spewing the same uninformed answers makes you the wiser man.


good post tackleberry :-)

Its true, these losers innevitably find their way into your life, especially in the world of muso's, where dickheads tend to be rife and virilant! lol.

better to forget em and move on, dont waste your energy getting worked up by fools.

peace

G
Cursed to one day crash and burn because we fly so god damn high.
#20
Well, the situation you are in isn't that dramatic as you make it out. I mean, there's a kid who thinks tube amps sound better, so what? Yeah, he isn't right that solid state amps suck, but there aren't so many really good ones.

He's getting a bunch of guitars, amps and pedals to make things sound good, why shouldn't he do that? As far the amps/pedals/guitars sound good and are worth the money, why do you care?

Is it wrong to know about guitar gear even when you haven't played for a long time and didn't became good? Tone comes from the gear, not from your fingers and if he wants good sound let him do his thing.

I don't want to say you are jealous about his gear, but you sound a bit like that, sorry.


However, the tone pot influences the sound quite much, think of Eric Clapton's 'woman tone' which he gets setting the tone knob to 0.
Fender American Special HSS Stratocaster
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Yamaha THR10X
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#21
jesuscrisp, i think Zak is more bothered by the fact this guy isnt very knowlegable, yet seems to claim to know everything (we call em knowitalls round my neck of the woods) and the fact that he got 10 people out of the pit to gang up on him and call him a loser, which I would be a bit miffed about too.

if you read his post properly, he is talking about the difference swapping out tone pots can make to your sound, not the effect that different tone settings hav on your sound.

Also, tone DOES come from your fingers my friend - put jimmy page on any guitar/amp combo and he will sound like page.

peace

G
Cursed to one day crash and burn because we fly so god damn high.
#22
Quote by hippyheaven1
jesuscrisp, i think Zak is more bothered by the fact this guy isnt very knowlegable, yet seems to claim to know everything (we call em knowitalls round my neck of the woods) and the fact that he got 10 people out of the pit to gang up on him and call him a loser, which I would be a bit miffed about too.

if you read his post properly, he is talking about the difference swapping out tone pots can make to your sound, not the effect that different tone settings hav on your sound.

Also, tone DOES come from your fingers my friend - put jimmy page on any guitar/amp combo and he will sound like page.

peace

G

Yeah, the guy he is talking about is an ignorant know-it-all, and the fact that 10 people call TS a loser isn't fair.

In the posts I also read something like "he has so many pedals and guitar stuff though he can't play that well" and that's just nonsense because there's nothing wrong with that.

Also if you give Jimmy Page a Squier starter pack he will PLAYING will sound like Page, but his TONE won't be Page's tone.
Fender American Special HSS Stratocaster
Ibanez 1987 Roadstar II Deluxe
Yamaha THR10X
Marshall JCM900 SL-X
Ibanez WD-7 Weeping Demon Wah
TC Electronic Polytune
Seymour Duncan Tweakfuzz
#23
Quote by hippyheaven1
Also, tone DOES come from your fingers my friend - put jimmy page on any guitar/amp combo and he will sound like page.


+1

Also, you give a kid a nice guitar and amp, but can't play for crap, he's still gonna sound like crap.
#24
Quote by JesusCrisp
Well, the situation you are in isn't that dramatic as you make it out. I mean, there's a kid who thinks tube amps sound better, so what? Yeah, he isn't right that solid state amps suck, but there aren't so many really good ones.

He's getting a bunch of guitars, amps and pedals to make things sound good, why shouldn't he do that? As far the amps/pedals/guitars sound good and are worth the money, why do you care?

Is it wrong to know about guitar gear even when you haven't played for a long time and didn't became good? Tone comes from the gear, not from your fingers and if he wants good sound let him do his thing.

I don't want to say you are jealous about his gear, but you sound a bit like that, sorry.


However, the tone pot influences the sound quite much, think of Eric Clapton's 'woman tone' which he gets setting the tone knob to 0.



I didnt mean to make it sound so dramatic, and its not wrong for him to know about the stuff, its like i said the kid cant tell that tone pots make a difference, Its good for him to know about guitar if he knows the right stuff, but he thinks going into the pit to get all of his info is the best thing for him, and honestly i couldnt handle having as much shit that i wouldnt use as he does, Im happy with my Behringer Tube amp and my Agile. i just wish the kid wouldnt go spewing all of his misled information to the other kids i try to teach, he wants to teach them cause he thinks he could do better, and i honestly dont want a bunch of kids at my school that play quarter assed guitar
#25
Quote by Saminator
+1

Also, you give a kid a nice guitar and amp, but can't play for crap, he's still gonna sound like crap.



thats what im talking about, you give a shitty guitarist a nice ass guitar, he will still sound like shit, and honestly if he thinks that all of his pedals and guitars are gonna make him sound good he is dead ****ing wrong
#26
You could do it the UG Forum way and lyk hav lyk a gitar badle wif dis gguy at skool infrnt of lyk evry1 and shou him up and lyk sweep so mach it blows hiz face off and he walkz away krying and evry1 lyk laffs @ him.....jaaa dat wuld be so kool!! cuz lyk i did dat once at a muzik stor and evry1 clapd & i told hym 2 get lost!!!!!!!!!11111one

*snaps out of it*
sh#t....sorry, been reading too many thread on here. Anyways just ignore him, like everyone said before he'll soon realize he's acting like a moron. Seems like he's seeking attention by pretending to be a know it all, no worries man just go with the flow you have no idea how many idiots you'll come across in your life the numbers are baffling. Besides, its not your fault that you created a monster as you say. Seems like he's probably been like this his whole life, you just didn't see it yet.
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#27
Quote by DSOTM80
You could do it the UG Forum way and lyk hav lyk a gitar badle wif dis gguy at skool infrnt of lyk evry1 and shou him up and lyk sweep so mach it blows hiz face off and he walkz away krying and evry1 lyk laffs @ him.....jaaa dat wuld be so kool!! cuz lyk i did dat once at a muzik stor and evry1 clapd & i told hym 2 get lost!!!!!!!!!11111one

*snaps out of it*
sh#t....sorry, been reading too many thread on here. Anyways just ignore him, like everyone said before he'll soon realize he's acting like a moron. Seems like he's seeking attention by pretending to be a know it all, no worries man just go with the flow you have no idea how many idiots you'll come across in your life the numbers are baffling. Besides, its not your fault that you created a monster as you say. Seems like he's probably been like this his whole life, you just didn't see it yet.


your probably right, and jesus christ a guitar battle would be awesome, i could kick his ass. Thing is im good, and i know im good, but i know im not great, like playing guitar for like 7 years i could be better, ive spent most of the time just screwing around and im just now starting to learn my scales, like ive known the patterns for a while just now learning the note names and how to read sheet music, but ive got a great sense for playing and have the ear of an audiophile
#28
So then don't worry about it. Its simple, an argument with an idiot is the worst kind. First they dragged you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Write that down.....
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#29
*writes down Idiots drag you down to their level and then mind **** you with the level of idiocracy"