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#1
Me and a friend of mine are thinking about setting up a small studio in town where we live. Maybe start a local record label for the bands more our age. We are thinking about getting a pro tools set up, but we know little about recording. Don't get me wrong, we aren't idiots and we've dicked around with pro tools. We were thinking about just getting the small m-powered mixer that m-audio offers, it has automated faders and what-not, but would that really work for live sound. We probably would not need to record more than 6-7 tracks maximum at a time, but we want to be able to have enough power to master it aftewards. What kind of equipment are we looking at on the actual DAW end of it. We know enough about acoustics to set the actual studio up, but all the equipment mess is stressing us out. Any help guys?
#3
If you need to ask an online forum, dont even start. Go and do a course in music production, or engineering or something. Its what Im doing and its really really helpful for a life down that path. Im looking just to work in the industry, not start my own, but the course really gives you an insight as to what to do
#4
you're way out of your depth lads

friendly advice: learn your shit before you even attempt to open a "studio" and market yourselves as professionals.
#5
Quote by TheDriller
you're way out of your depth lads

friendly advice: learn your shit before you even attempt to open a "studio" and market yourselves as professionals.


This.
#6
start off small. get a few pieces of gear and learn to engineer your own music. people aren't going to pay you for your work and studio if you can't offer them more than they can do themselves.
#7
Quote by mh.666
This.


+1

Get yourself a little multi track or something and mess about with that. Once you get some good results you can move on to bigger things. You'd still have a long way to go before becoming a professional and opening a full studio though...

Or like somebody else said, do a course in music production.
Top lel.
#8
If you're trying to do this professionaly, and you plan on using Pro Tools, you damn well better not be using that cheap M-Powered crap, you need at least a Pro Tools HD 1 system.
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#10
Quote by Kid_Thorazine
If you're trying to do this professionaly, and you plan on using Pro Tools, you damn well better not be using that cheap M-Powered crap, you need at least a Pro Tools HD 1 system.


You also have no idea what you are talking about.

This thread is full of fail.

The only good suggestions so far were telling him to go to school and to start out small.

I am currently running an M-Audio Profire 2626 and it works amazingly. People say that LE and M-Powered are worse than Cubase, which is simply not true. The only real advantage of HD are the AD/DA converters in the hardware, TDM Plugins (which are ridiculously expensive), zero latency, and infinite tracks. You tell me whether that is worth the $20k minimum to get setup at a small level. I really don't think so. M-Powered is GREAT to work with, and so is LE in fact.

My suggestion for you, along with the smart people that have posted so far, would be to start out small. Here is a basic list of pretty much everything you will need.

:4-8 input interface (depends on how you want to do drums)
:A bunch of XLR-XLR cables.
:A bunch of XLR-1/4" cables.
:A bunch of 1/4" - 1/4" cables.
:A fairly powerful computer that can handle running a lot of stuff. My suggestion is :2.4+GHz Dual or Quad Core Processor with 3+ GB's RAM.
:Pair of good quality studio monitors (do NOT use headphones for mixing or mastering) My suggestion would be with KRK Rockit 5's or 6's.
:A bunch of various GOOD microphone stands.
:A good dynamic mic for assorted things incl. guitar amps, snare, screaming vocals etc. (suggestion is for a Shure SM57)
:A good quality condenser microphone for clean vocals Suggestion is a good quality AKG.

I can't think of more right now...but if I do...I will come back and post.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#11
Quote by BlakeAlan
Guess you guys don't have any helpful information anyways.

That better have been sarcasm, the information we gave is honestly pretty helpful
Top lel.
#12
Quote by Brendan.Clace
You also have no idea what you are talking about.

This thread is full of fail.


Actually I do, why the hell would I pay to record in a studio that has equipment and software that's arguably worse than what I'm using at home? There's a reason why that stuff is aimed at the home recording market and not the professional market. And among those advantages that you severely downplayed are pretty important, like good A/D/A conversion and a high track count.
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Last edited by Kid_Thorazine at Dec 3, 2009,
#13
Quote by Kid_Thorazine
Actually I do, why the hell would I pay to record in a studio that has equipment and software that's arguably worse than what I'm using at home? There's a reason why that stuff is aimed at the home recording market and not the professional market. And among those advantages that you severely downplayed are pretty important, like good A/D/A conversion and a high track count.


I agree with good ADA conversion, however realistically, when I am tracking a full song, theres no way that I've gone over 48 stereo tracks.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#14
Quote by Brendan.Clace
I agree with good ADA conversion, however realistically, when I am tracking a full song, theres no way that I've gone over 48 stereo tracks.


That depends on the production style, how many overdubs you do, whether or nt you feel that a lot of track bouncing is acceptable etc. I've seen session go to something like 60 tracks in demo studios, for various reasons. My main thing is, M Powered Protools is adequate for a project studio or something, but it's not something that I would ever use in a studio that I would charge money for, since the general expectations are much higher.
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#15
Quote by Kid_Thorazine
That depends on the production style, how many overdubs you do, whether or nt you feel that a lot of track bouncing is acceptable etc. I've seen session go to something like 60 tracks in demo studios, for various reasons. My main thing is, M Powered Protools is adequate for a project studio or something, but it's not something that I would ever use in a studio that I would charge money for, since the general expectations are much higher.


I agree on that. If you go back and read my post, I was stating that for a small studio it is not worth shelling 20k on JUST your DAW and ADA stuff. THAT is what he is talking about.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#16
All I really wanted to know, is if I am recording underground indie/punk bands around my town to try to get our music out, would i really need to pay 20 grand for an HD system or would the basic LE with a little m-powered I/O work okay? I have never used an interface like the project mix I/O and I don't know how the latency is or if i could even use it for live recording. I only need to mic 2 guitars, bass, and vocal, and 2 overhead mics for drums. There is a small recording studio in town, and i believe that is all he is using, with a line 6 pod and all those neat tools, but he doesn't record live. One track a time is not the way i want to roll, because it takes the subtle nuance that IS the band out of the band imho. Sorry if my question made me sound like a complete idiot *rolls eyes*

I mean, I have made decent recordings one track a time using my stock computer sound card with a little vox practice amp running into the line in with a spliced quarter inch/headphone input. I don't see how HD could be THAT much more with LE significant if you know how to work with signal processing. I'm not trying to start a mainstream record label here guys, I just need a little input.
Last edited by BlakeAlan at Dec 3, 2009,
#17
Quote by BlakeAlan
All I really wanted to know, is if I am recording underground indie/punk bands around my town to try to get our music out, would i really need to pay 20 grand for an HD system or would the basic LE with a little m-powered I/O work okay? I have never used an interface like the project mix I/O and I don't know how the latency is or if i could even use it for live recording. I only need to mic 2 guitars, bass, and vocal, and 2 overhead mics for drums. There is a small recording studio in town, and i believe that is all he is using, with a line 6 pod and all those neat tools, but he doesn't record live. One track a time is not the way i want to roll, because it takes the subtle nuance that IS the band out of the band imho. Sorry if my question made me sound like a complete idiot *rolls eyes*


Hey man, I understand where you are coming from. Honestly though, I don't think that 2 overheads for drums would do the bands justice. At minimum 1 for the kick and 2 overheads would be better overall, even live recording.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#19
Quote by BlakeAlan
Well, the kick is a give-in, haha.


lol

But yeah, a simple Pro Tools setup will get you what you want. how much experience do you have tracking and mixing etc?
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#20
A ton, I've been using it for years to record songs on my own with adobe audition. I know my way around compressors and limiters and reverb and all that jive. I just want to take it a step up so I can actually record bands and get a decent sound without that little background buzz you get with line-in and crappy cables. I pretty much just want to run a set up where the band gets in a room, and jams while i record, and i want it all on seperate tracks so i can mix it and make it as good as it possibly can. I know I am going to have to do the soundproofing, and get screens and all that sound dampening stuff so there wont be as much bleeding sound on the other mics, but I am pretty sure I can handle that. Can the project mix I/O do this?
#21
Quote by BlakeAlan
A ton, I've been using it for years to record songs on my own with adobe audition. I know my way around compressors and limiters and reverb and all that jive. I just want to take it a step up so I can actually record bands and get a decent sound without that little background buzz you get with line-in and crappy cables. I pretty much just want to run a set up where the band gets in a room, and jams while i record, and i want it all on seperate tracks so i can mix it and make it as good as it possibly can. I know I am going to have to do the soundproofing, and get screens and all that sound dampening stuff so there wont be as much bleeding sound on the other mics, but I am pretty sure I can handle that. Can the project mix I/O do this?


I think that it can, yeah, however I am still gonna suggest the MBox over that, or the Profire 2626 above that.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#22
Is there a good autmated mixer that can run with the mbox so I can master later without having to do it with my mouse? haha

If so, We are looking at how much of a cost here?

And how much latency do you usually have to deal with on LE?
#23
Quote by BlakeAlan
Is there a good autmated mixer that can run with the mbox so I can master later without having to do it with my mouse? haha

If so, We are looking at how much of a cost here?

And how much latency do you usually have to deal with on LE?


You don't need a mixer to do that. You can automate all the levels in the edit window to your comfort. In mastering you are just finalinzing, boosting the overall level, limiting and som VERY SMALL EQ adjustments.

I have very little latency with my mbox actually as long as the buffer is under 1024.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#24
I see what you are saying, but it is always nice to have that kind of stuff at your fingertips, and the latching I have read about on the project mix would be stellar, because there are always those parts when you want the vocal to come down a little, or come up a little, or the guitar to cut out, and if you can record that automation in real time, it makes things a lot quicker, plus it looks sexy to have that mixer in front of you, haha.
#25
Quote by BlakeAlan
I see what you are saying, but it is always nice to have that kind of stuff at your fingertips, and the latching I have read about on the project mix would be stellar, because there are always those parts when you want the vocal to come down a little, or come up a little, or the guitar to cut out, and if you can record that automation in real time, it makes things a lot quicker, plus it looks sexy to have that mixer in front of you, haha.


haha, I hear you, but not many pros do it via mixer anymore. It's just way too touchy.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#26
I guess, haha. I will be debating this in my mind. It seems like the profire 2626 has more ins and probably better latency, but, like i said, being able to record 8 tracks at the same time is all i'm looking for. Any suggestions on how to get a band in the same room and keep the bleeding down so i can get it all on seperate tracks for processing later?
#27
Quote by BlakeAlan
I guess, haha. I will be debating this in my mind. It seems like the profire 2626 has more ins and probably better latency, but, like i said, being able to record 8 tracks at the same time is all i'm looking for. Any suggestions on how to get a band in the same room and keep the bleeding down so i can get it all on seperate tracks for processing later?


Well, there are a ton of techniques for keeping bleed down, but I mean, with drums thats going to be extremely difficult.... With dynamics, you can just wrap them in space age bed foam or something
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#28
Yeah.. I mean, there has to be a better way, haha, maybe stick him in the next room and give him a headphone mix? haha
#29
Quote by Brendan.Clace
I agree on that. If you go back and read my post, I was stating that for a small studio it is not worth shelling 20k on JUST your DAW and ADA stuff. THAT is what he is talking about.


Sure, but if I wanted somehting pro level and cheap I wouldn't use protools, I would get a couple of nice MOTU interfaces and a Cubase/Nuendo setup (you can skip on Nuendo if you don't want to handle mastering in house) it's not exactly cheap, but it's less than half of what an HD setup costs, and I actually prefer Cubase/Nuendo over Protools HD anyway.
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#30
Quote by BlakeAlan
Yeah.. I mean, there has to be a better way, haha, maybe stick him in the next room and give him a headphone mix? haha


A headphone mix is essential for every person while recording live, because without that, there is no click, and no other monitors. Another room should work, but you may still worry about bleed from around the door etc from the guitar amps. I would just make sure that you soundproof the room once the drummer is in it haha.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#31
Nuendo eh? I heard about that. It just seems everyone is stuck on pro tools, I guess thinking outside the ****in' box wouldn't be a bad idea though. I personally think this pro tools thing may be over rated, I've heard recordings out of the studio here in town. Pretty dry sounds like 1's and 0's. I figure it will be the same with any digital recording interface though. I think he uses the digi 02 mixer, it is just a little project studio, but it is all we have here, and he charges out the ass, it is unreal. I am just going to record bands for free and run him out of business. Anyway.. enough of that. Thanks for the cubase suggestion. Deffinently will give that a look.
#32
For multitracking you would use Cubase over Nuendo generally, and if you have a good computer Cubase can go pretty much toe to toe with Pro Tools (and it's actually far far better at handling MIDI)
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#34
Quote by CatharsisStudio
whats really awesome is that native is more powerfull and better then TDM now thanks to super fast computaz


well that depends, if you're running 20 tracks and each one has it's own compression and reverb it can get pretty unstable, although UAD is a lot cheaper than protools and basically does the same thing when it comes to running plugins.
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#35
Sorry guys, but I am relatively new at using recording interfaces. It seems like Cubase, Protools, and all those other ones can all get the job done if you have the right plugins and a good interface to get a good sharp sound into them. I guess that is the important thing right? Not that I am "Using the industry standard" Because if I was doing industry standard music right now I wouldn't even need to know how to play an instrument. Hahaha. I am going to look into some cheaper software alternatives and just look for a good interface that gets the job done. I guess it is all one big experiment from here on.. haha

But, being a hands-on guy that really wants to use a interface with a control board, what options are there for a board that intigrates with steinberg softwares?

edit again* haha

http://www.zzounds.com/item--TASDM4800 <--How would this do in a nuendo set up? And what extra hardware would I need to get the sound into seperate tracks on the daw?
Last edited by BlakeAlan at Dec 3, 2009,
#36
pretty much any MIDI control surface will work with Steinberg stuff, you have tons of options there.
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#37
And I still have the option on this board here with the firewire card to record live on separate tracks into nuendo or cubase as well, with the ability to use it as a control interface to mix and master aftewards?
#38
I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but with that sort of setup the control surface is totally independent of the interface (unless you set it to control the interface), but basically anything you can control from the software you can use the control surface to manipulate.
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#39
okay bro try this


get the project mix
then grab another 8 pre for going in adat (a used digimax)

instead of micing everyone in the same room, have them jam out live. and monitor using ampsims then re-amp the guitars and bass after they are done jamming so go ahead and buy a re-amp box
#40
All I am asking is can I plug in 8 mics on this board, mic everyone up, and use the board to get the tracks independently into the daw from the mics. using it like an interface instead of just controlling the interface.

Like, Can I output each of the 24 outs to the daw on separate tracks via the firewire card.
Last edited by BlakeAlan at Dec 3, 2009,
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