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#1
I have never understood suicide. I cannot imagine what would pain someone so much that they could take their own life, or even consider it. I can't even comprehend how someone would have the will to go through with it. I don't even have the guts to poke myself with a needle...

Not meaning to be ofensive insensitive, but I've always thought of people who self harm, or commit suicide as mentally handicapped*. I reiterate: I'm not trying to offend. Just, whenever I've thought of this, I've always come to the conclusion that people like this are diseased or disabled. (And before anyone calls me out on the 'disease' bit, look up the definition. It's not just bacteria and viruses)

I've come up with this thread as a reaction to the other thread about sexting and bullying.

I seriously can't imagine how bullying, even in its most brutal and unrelenting forms, could lead someone to suicide.

*I can't think of a better way to put it, sorry

Feel free to respond to this how you like. Share your experiences, stories you've heard, anything that will help me, and others like me, to understand. I am not thrusting my opinion onto you all. I really don't have much of an opinion, as I don't have much of an understanding. That's right people, I'm admitting ignorance on this one. Educate me.
#2
Man, my lil' sister's friend's dad committed suicide. He was a policeman, took out his gun and shot himself. His daughter was starting high school, his son was starting college, and his other son was getting married in a few months.
It was horrible, but if you look at pictures of the family, you can see how the whole family "smiles for the camera", but the father just looks...dark.
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#4
well believe it or not, seriously depressed or mentally ill people don't always act according to rational thought processes.
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#5
I can see where you've got your ideas on suicide from. However, I feel I understand suicide, and those who are suicidal. I think that it isn't about bravery or attention, it isn't about a certain diseased mentality. To me, suicide is about being on the edge, being at the very end of your limit of tolerance. I mean, what seems like a very manageable problem to you might be completely destructive and crippling to somebody else. Some people are simply better equipped to deal with problems than others. Another side of suicide is simply not feeling like you belong or that you're wanted or desired. A strong enough sense of insecurity and self loathing combined with a persons inability to deal with these issues can easily push them over the edge. I've seen it before, and it doesn't strike me as being a disability, although I think it can be helped. Some people just don't have a strong will to live, or endure, and that can't be held against them. They're just not as connected to life on this planet as some others seem to be. Life to somebody like this isn't as precious as it is to you, it's disposable. I mean, everybody seems to think that life is extremely precious; for example, where I'm from, you can't even get out of a Taxi/cab unless your door opens out onto a footpath (incase of cars). These kinds of laws just don't make sense to suicidal people, they don't see their life as something of great value. I hope this helps.

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#6
Quote by Deep*Kick
well believe it or not, seriously depressed or mentally ill people don't always act according to rational thought processes.

Yeah, yeah. What I'm trying to understand is how people get to that stage.

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#9
Dunno what the politically correct term is atm but yes,

People that are suicidal or self-harm are mentally ill

That's not offensive or insensitive - it is truth
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#10
Quote by Butt Rayge
Yeah, yeah. What I'm trying to understand is how people get to that stage.


Everyone think's you're hilarious.

Life is to be enjoyed, when you can get no happiness from it but only suffering and you don't see it getting any better soon, you:
1- hold on until things change, or
2- put a halt to it.
#11
The problem with depression is that it's treated by everyone as a fault of character, as if it's something that can just be fixed by the person 'manning up' or whatever. The truth is, it actually is a serious condition caused by a traumatic event and maintained by an imbalance of neurotransmitters. The slightest thing can trigger a massive emotional reaction in someone suffering from depression. The key word there is suffering, it's not as if it's just some thing that they can control or bring themselves out of whenever they like. Unfortunately, the stigma surrounding depression and other mental illnesses is such that the depression alone can feel like it's too much, without an external trigger because people feel ashamed/secluded because of it. That's when suicide comes into it.
#12
Quote by A Lamp
Why on earth would you want to understand?

Good point.

I don't really have an answer. That other thread just got me thinking.

Quote by sam b
If im being completely honest, I've always thought they should get some balls

That's one of the things I thought aswell. There has to be more to it than that, though.
Quote by Dante53
Long answer

Thanks. Seems to reinforce what I was speculating though. You say they thinkk differently and they can't help it, I say thats a mental issue.
#13
Quote by Butt Rayge

Thanks. Seems to reinforce what I was speculating though. You say they thinkk differently and they can't help it, I say thats a mental issue.



Dude, it is. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.
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#14
Take a look at the Shining vocalist, eh glorifies death and suicide and doesn't afraid of anything.
#15
Quote by sam b
If im being completely honest, I've always thought they should get some balls

Well you shouldn't think that, because it won't help anybody who finds themselves in a difficult emotional state.

Quote by A Lamp
Why on earth would you want to understand?

We should all make an effort to better understand mental illness, and through that understanding, hopefully diminish the stigma that surrounds it.
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#16
Suicide is a tricky subject. mu cousin was going through rough stuff with his then girlfriend and work. he was also binge drinking and doing drugs. one day he came home from work and hung himself, Absolutely Devastating! suicide isn't the pansy way out or any of that other bull. suicide is a last resort, when nothing else works. i myself have tried to kill my self on several occasions, because everything piles up and you cant breathe or think without thinking negative thoughts. When your in a 'vulnerable' state your mind acts as a radar and picks up on the bad things and 'amplifies' them. when you get more and more depressed the more you brain searches for the bad things. Suicide is not weak
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#17
I wouldn't say mentally handicapped persay ... most people call it mental illness. And being truly suicidal does conflict with the most basic, fundamental instinct of survival. so I can see what you mean.

as someone who has been suicidal before ... for me it was a combination of self-loathing and feeling I had no future. that I'd always be alone. but there is also something else, something I honestly can't describe, a sadness so deep words cannot convey. it goes beyond any cause from the physical world. an inexplicable emptiness. that probably sounds stupid, but that's what it feels like.

I can only speak from my own experience here... I would say in some cases suicide can be a rational reaction to outside circumstances, if they're really, really bad. But generally, I would say there is definitely an internal element that defies reason, which you could call a disease, I guess. because really, I don't know the future. I shouldn't assume it will only be bad. And I do have some valid reasons to not like myself, but when I'm in a more normal state of mind I realize that I exaggerate my faults, and I have plenty of family and friends who love me, so I'm not really alone. So in my case, yes, I would say any suicidal thoughts are a result of depression, which I consider a mental illness. Because when it really hits hard, there's not necessarily a cause I can point to, like something that happened to me. I just suddenly feel desolate, perhaps with some minor causes, but nothing that should lead to actually wanting to kill myself.

it's different for everyone. but in my experience, i suppose you could call it a handicap. because depression is quite debilitating. it has enough stigma as it is though...mental illness has a slightly less negative connotation, I think.
#18
Well, the same could also be said for life. Is the reason of our finite existence to continue existing? If we are all just atoms and elements amongst other elements, what is the point to anything?

/pseudo-philosophy
#19
To bonesofghosts, I've never had any doubt that depression is an ilness.

I've also experienced many of the feelings you described there, but not the 'inexplicable emptiness.' Even when reading the wikipedia article on depression and matching almost all of the symptoms to my own conditions, I have to admit i got a little worried. Obviously I can't diagnose myself, but it makes you think. Combined with pressure from school, and leaving school, finding a job, saying goodbye to everyone, it really makes you wonder.

Even with all this, I've never considered harming myself in any way.
Quote by denfilade
Well, the same could also be said for life. Is the reason of our finite existence to continue existing? If we are all just atoms and elements amongst other elements, what is the point to anything?

/pseudo-philosophy

This is the scary stuff right here. I've pondered these thoughts myself. It's quite... belittling.
#20
Quote by sam b
If im being completely honest, I've always thought they should get some balls


Don't ever join the samaritans will ya....

So far in my life I have known 2 people who have commited suicide so from personal experience I can say that the "getting some balls" and toughing it out way of thinking is dismissive and demonstrates that you have no real idea about this subject.

No offence intended.
[
Last edited by Skuzzmo at Dec 3, 2009,
#21
Quote by Butt Rayge
Yeah, yeah. What I'm trying to understand is how people get to that stage.

People don't just go "I think I'll commit suicide today" - I'm sure you knew that, but if you didn't, there you go - it's a huge downward spiral in which lots of "little things" are thrown together and blown out of proportion to the point that the person becomes overwhelmed by what is usually guilt, self-loathing, boredom, misanthropy, etc. I've always people say that "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem", and I'd say that most times, this is the case.

Suicidal people feel as if they're trapped and that death is the only escape. It's really the result of a huge emotional and mental breakdown as a result of these "little things", which in most cases really are little in the great scheme of things - stuff like rejection, bullying, etc. I'm not saying that these things are insignificant, but most people move on, and those who don't are those who start to experience this downward spiral where they begin to question the point of their existence or glorify death as an escape from the mental anguish.

Mental pain is a completely different kind of pain to physical pain - it doesn't heal naturally, and it usually gets much worse before it gets any better. Someone in mental pain really feels it in the pit of their soul, and it breaks them down.

That probably doesn't help nearly as much as you would've wanted it to, but it's a hard feeling for anyone to describe, and anyone who experiences it does so differently.

Quote by denfilade
Well, the same could also be said for life. Is the reason of our finite existence to continue existing? If we are all just atoms and elements amongst other elements, what is the point to anything?

/pseudo-philosophy

We as humans give our own lives meaning in our own ways, in spite of these apparent truths you mentioned and in spite of various obstacles in life.

That's my basic understanding of existentialism anyway.
#22
they get depressed and have no help, therefore they feel they have no choice, (N)
#23
It's basicaly a reaction that happens when everything has just become too much for someone and they would give anything for it all to just stop.
#24
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they get depressed and have no help, therefore they feel they have no choice, (N)


It's not that simple.
#25
I think it's about meaning within life. Some people in the depths of unhappiness cannot fathom any meaning about their own lives - there's a sense of emptiness, hollowness, no hope. There's a great lonliness in that, like the whole world is again you, or is ignoring you, or mocking you. Death is an escape from all this, whether they believe in an afterlife or oblivion, it can seem like a better option that dealing with all the shit life and the mind can throw at you.
#26
Well, as its been obviously stated, suicide is caused by depression. But I think the thing that most people don't understand is how depression impairs your ability.

Usually there's some nasty cause of depression. One of my closest friend's (now my gf) dad beat her mom constantly, and every single time her dad would force her to watch. So after a few years she decided to talk to her siblings about it and they decided that they're going to tell their dad to stop cuz they all hate it. When they did it, she was the only one that spoke up and the others remained silent. As a result she got beaten severely. On the side, in school, people would constantly backbite her. In 9th grade, she got an abusive boyfriend but didn't see him as abusive because she was used to that treatment. All of her highschool, seeing that this creep now has a boy, decided to call her a *****/slut/etc. And she got majorly depressed because there was no way out.

Her parents were abusive, her boyfriend was abusive, her own friends talked shit about her. She wanted an immediate escape before she became mad. And she almost committed suicide after her parents almost killed each other again but she heard her smaller brother crying in the distance and that's what stopped her. The fact that she had to be there for him.

She's better now because she's not around her parents or in that highschool anymore and she broke up with her abusive boyfriend but she has incredibly low self esteem and for the first year away from her parents, she had to constantly avoid the thought of suicide. Like she's be about to kill herself and she'd have to go like "wait, no I can't do this, its wrong" or "wait, can't do this because my brother and sister would be hurt" etc. Her self esteem is so incredibly low that I (being her guy now) have to constantly remind her that there are things in her to be loved and that she isn't the piece of shit that she believes she is.

As you can see, in this kind of situation, your emotionally tortured and you can't stand being alive anymore. There is no solution in sight. My gf managed to survive because by chance I came along and she went to uni, away from her parents and her high school. I assume that if she had stayed in that environment, she'd be long gone, regardless of me being with her.

It seems weird but believe me, if you put yourselves in the shoe of a person committing suicide, it becomes easy to understand (note, understand, not justify). Self-esteem has a lot to do with it too because if you see no worth in yourself, you'd be very inclined to take your life. However, if you know your worth as a person and believe in it, being in a shithole for a long time will lead you to suicidal thoughts, but never the action.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. I'm depressed and bipolar, my girlfriend is depressed, my sister is bipolar and my mom is depressed too. So if you have questions, feel free to ask what its like or anything else.
#27
K, first off: You mean mentally ill, not mentally handicapped. BIG difference, much more accurate, and you'll offend a lot less people if you say mentally ill.

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

If you've never experienced that feeling yourself, directly or indirectly through a family member or close friend, then chances are, as a teenager, you're not going to understand. I'm not having a go at teens, I'm only 21 myself, but I'll say there's a huge difference between the way I understand things now and the way I did even three years ago. As you get older, you become better able to understand things, in some ways, so I really wouldn't expect you to be able to understand it.

As for poking yourself with a needle...firstly, suicides as a rule aren't seeking to hurt themselves. Self harm and suicide are very different things. Someone might OD to hurt themselves, or hurt themselves not caring if they die, but it's not technically a suicide attempt. Suicidal people want to END the pain. That's all. It's not even that they might not be scared of dying or of pain - they just can't cope any longer. Doesn't make them weak, just means that their coping resources aren't as good as they should be, or as good as those of a "happy" person.

Also, I've stuck needles into myself more than three times a day since I was 2 years old, in order to stay alive. You'd get over that fear pretty quickly if something important meant you HAD to do it. And that's sort of how it is for suicidal people - they feel as though they have no other choice. Often they do, but they're in such a bad place that they have real trouble seeing it, which is why doctors, counsellors, helplines, friends, family can be so important in helping them.

I dunno how well that all came out, I have swine flu and I'm feeling like death warmed up, so it probably didn't make as much sense as I'd have liked But maybe you understand a little more, I don't know.
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#28
It's something I think you can really only understand when everything really seems irreparably bad and it seems like a logical option. As someone who has attempted it, at the time I found a way for it to make sense, but now when I look back, I can't understand how my mind worked at the time. People who haven't attempted it will rarely understand, and even people who have won't understand it unless they're considering it. I'm 1 year into a Psychology degree also, if it makes any difference.

It's like a Pokemon using 'struggle'... they'll only use it when the rest of their PP is expired, and it's not even a consideration if there's other options. Even Magikarp will splash before it struggles.
#29
My Uncle and Grandpa have both attempted suicide.

My Uncle has just been depressed his entire life I guess and my Grandpa sexually molested two little girls and didn't want to go to jail.
#30
Quote by Butt Rayge
I have never understood suicide. I cannot imagine what would pain someone so much that they could take their own life, or even consider it. I can't even comprehend how someone would have the will to go through with it. I don't even have the guts to poke myself with a needle...



That is why it infuriates me when people call those who commit suicide cowards. To kill yourself requires a lot of courage and while I don't endorse or encourage it I think it's wrong to abuse those who are suffering but that's beside the point.


I believe suicide or depression is one's reaction to the environment. Since every human being reacts differently, it is next to impossible to accurately determine the causes of suicide and depression. While suicide is most commonly linked to depression, I believe the two are mutually exclusive. Take Jon Nodtviedt for example, he was at the peak of his career (not really, but he was quite famous at the time), was in a relationship, and fresh out of prison, yet he chose to commit suicide. I also find it interesting that in other cases, the trigger for suicide lies within the most trivial problems like getting stuck in a traffic jam etc.

Probably didn't help you in any way but it's 1 in the morning and it's the school holidays.
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Last edited by Cianyx at Dec 3, 2009,
#31
Suicide can only be understood when you reach the mental state of thinking about suicide yourself. You can never admit some people would rather die than trying to improve their lives until you experience something that makes you consider it.

Not saying that as a personal experience, though, I never wanted to commit suicide. When I feel down, I stop feeling down and be awesome instead... err, I mean I am sad but I never forget that things can always get better and people I love would be devastated if I was to disappear.

On a relatively less serious note though, my opinion has always been that suicide is for pussies. People who choose death over the curiosity of experiencing what life reserves you next are cowards that favor nothingness above the efforts needed in order to move forward and keep going. Of course, there are always special cases that contradict such a statement. I'm thinking about paralyzed people for example.
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#33
Quote by FreakAddiction
I don't know, I always thought of it as a cowards way out.


I'm not having a go at you, but I really hate that expression. It's a total oversimplification, and in most cases, completely incorrect.
People who kill themselves don't do it, simply because the going got tough.
Hell, some suicide cases are people with nice enough lives, but their rational is so badly affected by mental troubles, that suicide becomes the logical choice.
They're not cowardly, not at all, and that sort of attitude is holding us back when it comes to helping people get past their problems.

EDIT:
Quote by Zeebraa
You never will "understand" suicide. No one will... stop trying...

Perhaps not, but you can try to empathise with people who experience suicidal emotions, and that's a worthwhile endeavour.
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#34
You never will "understand" suicide. No one will... stop trying...
RAWR...
#35
People with mental illnesses that lead to suicide have severe defects in reasoning that leads to a condition called learned helplessness. Often they are in so much mental anguish and this defect in reasoning tells them they will never, ever get out of it, so they just end up killing themselves.

It was exemplified using dogs a while back. The dog would be shocked repeatedly and completely unable to escape the situation they were in so they just laid there and let themselves continue to be shocked.

Cheers to you, TS, for trying to understand something rather than calling them cowards. Mental illness has a lot of stigma around it and as someone who suffers from a number of them,(in fact, 1/4 of the population in Canada does), it's nice to see people who actually want to understand it.
Last edited by Inimical at Dec 3, 2009,
#36
I though I was depressed for 4 years, but it was really bipolar disorder. It starts of with a lack of self worth, feeling insignificant, and alone. Suicide sound pretty good when these are combined with a decreased sense of rational. Also its not one thing that set me off, it was many thing through out my life which I couldnt stop thinking about due to racing thoughs. I didnt care about hurting others or the consequences, I just wanted it to stop.

Im on Lithium now and all the suicidal thoughts are gone(which is a relief because at a points its all I would think about), I can think clearly, the racing thought have slowed down but not completely. I believe out of all the drugs I have taken, this is the only one that has worked.
#37
Quote by sam b
If im being completely honest, I've always thought they should get some balls

That's what I think too. But it's a bit rude to tell that to people who had a loved one that commited suicide.
#38
I don't understand it, but it's something that I've experienced. Suicidal thoughts were a side effect of the antidepression medication my doctor put me on, and I've attempted (not well enough, obviously) to off myself 4 times over the last year and a half, which I have spent on and off the meds, and abusing alcohol and drugs. I have a few friends who are in the same position as me, all of whom are being treated for psychological illnesses, the common denominator being either a unipolar or bipolar mood disorder.

Depression seems to always end up in a vicious cycle that's impossible to get out of, every attempt to make yourself feel better leading to another problem. It's not possible to understand what it feels like unless you have been through it yourself, as you will probably see from the replies the serious posts in this thread will spawn.
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#39
I understand suicide. Its hard to explain it unless you've seriously contemplated it. Sometimes you can feel so alone in this world that there really doesn't even seem like a point to existing anymore.

You could take some happy pills so you can be more like society wants you to be, which can be happy, but also just numb enough to stay alive(cue nursing home footage). Maybe both.
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#40
Quote by Butt Rayge
Not meaning to be ofensive insensitive, but I've always thought of people who self harm, or commit suicide as mentally handicapped.
The majority of suicides are from people who are mentally ill.

Depression is an illness, a "state of low mood", caused by many different things. For me, it was both a shitty upbringing and a chemical imbalance I inherited from my father and his mother, and her grandmother and her mother.

But suicide was never really enough of an option for me to actually accomplish it. I attempted to do it on a few occasions, but I'm not like the more serious depressives out there. I have made plans of suicide, but not to the detail and willingness that others have. And I certainly don't meditate on it like I used to - Years of medication and therapy has helped with that.
The few times that I have hurt myself was in the heat of the moment. Losing a girlfriend for instance - I jumped out of a moving car on the way home.

Understanding suicide is not easy. If you don't understand it, teaching the theory behind it is almost like teaching a colour-blind person what the colour green looks like. It's nigh on impossible. You either understand it, or you don't.

But don't feel like you're a bad person for not being able to reason on it or to feel sympathy for those who do suffer from suicidal thoughts and actions. In fact, be grateful.

You don't need to fathom suicide, just hope it never affects your life and your loved ones. But also be respectful of it. My mother looks after me, but she cannot understand depression. She has lived with it for years now, but still doesn't understand it.
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