#1
Creationism is usually regarded as the polar opposite of evolutionism. There is absolutely no reason for that to be so, as one does not necessarily contradict the other.
I personally do not believe in an omnipotent being, and see no reason to do so, but it still interests me.
Every piece of evidence I state here is taken from the original Old Testament, graciously translated by me (rather a literal translation, I fear), keeping as close to the original as possible, so as to stop any later additions in the translations from interfering.

1) In the beginning God created the earth and the sky:
2) And the earth was all chaos and darkness on the abyss and the spirit of God hovering above the waters:
3) And God said let there be light and there was light:
Pretty straightforward: Introduction (1), and then an explanation, how everything was chaotic and there was only darkness, an abyss, and some water (the only part I can't explain). Then there's the light. Explosions are known to give off light (3). Not much contradiction so far.
6) And God said there'll be sky in the water (I don't really understand what this means) and he separated water from water:
9) And God said let the waters under the sky be collected into one place and let the land be seen and so it was:
11) And God said let the land grass and grow fruit bearing trees and each fruit has seeds of its kind on the land and so it was:
Again, pertty easy. First there's the separation between the gasses on the planet and the creation of the atmosphere (6) and then the creation of land (at the time all the land was gathered in one clump, Pangea), which was then covered with trees, and explaining how the trees multiply (through fruit).
Then there's the fourth day (Sun and Moon), the only thing that may contradict the theories. But I have my theory, and that is that a sort of translucent gas/dust cloud was in the atmosphere/space, originating from the explosion, thus letting in light, but not making anything outside visible, which might explain both the late creation of them, and the slow evolution of the plants. Can you disprove it?
20) And God said let the waters spawn creatures (the original word can describe both insects and fish) and let birds fly above the land across the sky:
Now here's an often missed but very important sentence: 21) And God created the large crocodiles (could also mean lizards BTW) and all living things that insect/spawn in the water (that's the literal translation. Don't forget this is ancient Hebrew, and no one is really certain on how to translate it) and every bird of wing and God saw it was good:
Hardly needs any explanation. Sea dwelling creatures were created first, then the fish. Then there were flying creatures (birds doesn't necessarily mean birds as we know them today in the Bible). Then the large crocodiles. Anyone reminded of Dinosaurs?
24) And God said let the land give living souls cattle and Reptiles and all the animals and so it was:
27)And God made mankind in his image male and female he made them:

The land-locked creatures are created later on, and latest of all, the humans.
Also, there is the often quoted "evidence": God does not destroy something he creates!
Well (this is chapter 8):
7) And God said I will wipe mankind I created from the face of the earth from human to cattle to reptile to bird of the skies for I have regretted creating them.
Discuss.
#3
Long post, didn't read it, I can make up my own mind.

Go to the religion thread if you want to talk about it though.
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#6
I thought there already was a thread on this?
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#7
Quote by jimmyled
1)Explosions are known to give off light (3). Not much contradiction so far.

2)Then there's the fourth day (Sun and Moon), the only thing that may contradict the theories. But I have my theory, and that is that a sort of translucent gas/dust cloud was in the atmosphere/space, originating from the explosion, thus letting in light, but not making anything outside visible, which might explain both the late creation of them, and the slow evolution of the plants. Can you disprove it?
1) The Big Bang wasn't an actual explosion.

2) Your theory eh? Funny, it's the exact same weak-ass theory Denny used to posit, so I'll ask you exactly what I asked him, why is the narrative being told from the surface of the Earth if there was nobody there to see it?
#9
Quote by freedoms_stain
1) The Big Bang wasn't an actual explosion.

2) Your theory eh? Funny, it's the exact same weak-ass theory Denny used to posit, so I'll ask you exactly what I asked him, why is the narrative being told from the surface of the Earth if there was nobody there to see it?


Yeah later in some book i forget which one, it says all scripture is told, by God, to people, namely Paul, John, Luke, all those kids.

Schmedit: people believe it was relayed directly from God to Moses when they were having their ten commandments chat on Mt. Sinai
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#10
Quote by freedoms_stain
1) The Big Bang wasn't an actual explosion.

2) Your theory eh? Funny, it's the exact same weak-ass theory Denny used to posit, so I'll ask you exactly what I asked him, why is the narrative being told from the surface of the Earth if there was nobody there to see it?

OK. Relevant question. Just so you know, I don't believe in a God, as I stated before, and all I'm trying to do is try to stop the bullshit of misinformed theories against evolution. The Bible was supposedly made by God. I don't believe it, so I think it's all just a literary technique to get the reader to show more interest in the story. Completely objective, dry facts are pretty boring to the average Joe usually.
#11
The creation stories are not meant to be taken literally. They were written during the Babylonian Exile when the Israelites realized they had no creation story after hearing the Babylonian's. The Babylonian's was one of violence and humans being laves to their god. The Israelites wanted to make one that expressed their belief that God loved them and whatnot. None of the guys who wrote it/started the oral tradition really knew how the world or man was created. It was just an expression of belief

Also, I really don't get what creationists believe. There are actually two different creation stories in the bible, and you can't believe both are true. One has humans created first, the other, last. This, along with many other differences I won't bother to post, show religious beliefs, not historical facts.

Edit: ^ the bible was not written by God, but it is believed to be written through "divine inspiration"
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Last edited by cap'n curry at Dec 3, 2009,
#13
Quote by jimmyled
OK. Relevant question. Just so you know, I don't believe in a God, as I stated before, and all I'm trying to do is try to stop the bullshit of misinformed theories against evolution. The Bible was supposedly made by God. I don't believe it, so I think it's all just a literary technique to get the reader to show more interest in the story. Completely objective, dry facts are pretty boring to the average Joe usually.

You're trying to solve a false problem that doesn't exist. When I hear 'Christian' I don't hear 'creationist'. Most others don't either.
#14
The main reason I don't believe in any creator/god is because there is no evidence to suggest there is one, and it's therefor illogical to assume there is one.

While on the other hand, there is plenty of evidence for the Big Bang, Evolution, etc.

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#15
Quote by cap'n curry


Also, I really don't get what creationists believe. There are actually two different creation stories in the bible, and you can't believe both are true. One has humans created first, the other, last. This, along with many other differences I won't bother to post, show religious beliefs, not historical facts.

No. Two different human creation stories: One that the male and female were created together, and the other that the male was first and the female later.
#16
*reported*
Already a good thread full of knowledge about this. Use that one.
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#17
Quote by jimmyled
No. Two different human creation stories: One that the male and female were created together, and the other that the male was first and the female later.

No. There's a change in order of creation. You cannot get around it.
#18
You make some interesting points, but this particular argument is exactly why there is so much dispute over how long the seven "days" were that God took to make the universe.

Also, I think the thing about "the waters" would be more of a metaphor, like many of the things in the Bible are supposed to be.


Also,
Quote by freedoms_stain
1) The Big Bang wasn't an actual explosion.

...Then what in the world would you describe it as?
#19
preemptive *report*

your facts are hilariously misinformed on BOTH sides of the argument... which is quite rare, meaning this thread is just going to implode.
#20
Quote by archangels666
You make some interesting points, but this particular argument is exactly why there is so much dispute over how long the seven "days" were that God took to make the universe.

Also, I think the thing about "the waters" would be more of a metaphor, like many of the things in the Bible are supposed to be.


Also,

...Then what in the world would you describe it as?
Rapid expansion of matter.