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#1
Why is everyone in this forum always asking questions about modes and constantly starting new and pointless threads? Why can't you people pick up a book? They are these things with pages and bindings that have pages and within them are great resources of knowledge. No books, there is this building where there are large collections of books. It is called a LIBRARY!

For all of you lesser imps and demons:

The modes are used for movement within chords:

For example, if you are in the key of CM, you can use the G Lydian mode over the V Chord, which has all natural notes in it.

For something to remember about modes, what they are and the order:

I (Ionian, or the major mode) (WWHWWWH)
Don't (Dorian) (WHWWWHW)
Punch (Phrygian) (HWWWHWW)
Like (Lydian) (WWWHWWH)
Muhammad (Mixo-Lydian) (WWHWWHW)
A (Aeolian, or the minor mode) (WHWWHWW)
Li (Locrian) (HWWHWWW)

Notice a pattern?

Among that basic use, each mode has its own unique uses.
Ionian is happy, it is the major scale, Aeolian is sad, it is minor, the Lydian and Mixo add color. Locrian has a dark feeling and can also add a bluesy feel if you play it right. Dorian is also used commonly over a V chord, and i don't know much about Phrygian because i don't like it.

I hope this can end your pointless threads about modes

For the record, modes are diatonic scales, for whomever said that they weren't, by the way. Again, books are our friends.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#3
The concept of modes is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp. Some people don't understand that the same set of notes can create vastly different sounds. This explains how you make all the modes, but not necessarily how you use them. If you want to make a "Mode Thread to End All Mode Threads" show some examples next time. Also include if each mode is major, minor, or half diminished(is that what it's called?). I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii*.
#5
And if you're in the key of C Major, you would use G Mixolydian over the V chord. G Lydian is the IV chord in the key of B Major I believe.
#6
Quote by Bluesy...
Why is everyone in this forum always asking questions about modes and constantly starting new and pointless threads? Why can't you people pick up a book? They are these things with pages and bindings that have pages and within them are great resources of knowledge. No books, there is this building where there are large collections of books. It is called a LIBRARY!

For all of you lesser imps and demons:

The modes are used for movement within chords:

For example, if you are in the key of CM, you can use the G Lydian mode over the V Chord, which has all natural notes in it.

For something to remember about modes, what they are and the order:

I (Ionian, or the major mode) (WWHWWWH)
Don't (Dorian) (WHWWWHW)
Punch (Phrygian) (HWWWHWW)
Like (Lydian) (WWWHWWH)
Muhammad (Mixo-Lydian) (WWHWWHW)
A (Aeolian, or the minor mode) (WHWWHWW)
Li (Locrian) (HWWHWWW)

Notice a pattern?

Among that basic use, each mode has its own unique uses.
Ionian is happy, it is the major scale, Aeolian is sad, it is minor, the Lydian and Mixo add color. Locrian has a dark feeling and can also add a bluesy feel if you play it right. Dorian is also used commonly over a V chord, and i don't know much about Phrygian because i don't like it.

I hope this can end your pointless threads about modes

For the record, modes are diatonic scales, for whomever said that they weren't, by the way. Again, books are our friends.

lolnah.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#7
Quote by TatarSalad2
And if you're in the key of C Major, you would use G Mixolydian over the V chord. G Lydian is the IV chord in the key of B Major I believe.


Uh, no G A B C. When you count the chords, you include the I.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#8
Sure, but there are millions of other generic questions floating everywhere. I'm sorry to invade your forum to clarify if I got my answer right. Isn't this forum to help people
#9
Quote by Bluesy...

I hope this can end your pointless threads about modes


I applaud your efforts... But I believe you are going to die a very bitter man.
Quote by CrunchyRoll
So you would censor child porn.

This thread is so fukking fail.
#10
Quote by TatarSalad2
The concept of modes is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp. Some people don't understand that the same set of notes can create vastly different sounds. This explains how you make all the modes, but not necessarily how you use them. If you want to make a "Mode Thread to End All Mode Threads" show some examples next time. Also include if each mode is major, minor, or half diminished(is that what it's called?). I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii*.


You want examples, take a class, read a book, listen to some music. There are other resources other than a forum that constantly answers the same question over and over.

And i did give an example for each mode except Phrygian because i don't like that one and i don't use it, therefore i do not know the uses.

If you want to know the uses of modes, there is this thing called experimentation where one can play the notes in the mode over different chords and see what works best for the thought you are trying to convey.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
Last edited by Bluesy... at Dec 4, 2009,
#11
Quote by Erick vonZipper
I applaud your efforts... But I believe you are going to die a very bitter man.


No, i accept the fact that everyone is stupid, but i just enjoy pointing out the idiocies of life.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#12
Quote by Bluesy...
Uh, no G A B C. When you count the chords, you include the I.


Uh, no. In the Key of C Major, The I is C Major. The ii is D Dorian. The iii is E Phrygian. The IV is F Lydian. The V is G Mixolydian.
#13
Quote by Bluesy...
You want examples, take a class, read a book, listen to some music. There are other resources other than a forum that constantly answers the same question over and over.

And i did give an example for each mode except Phrygian because i don't like that one and i don't use it, therefore i do not know the uses.


well... to be fair... this forum is about helping others with music theory, among other things... one thing i have noticed about books is that unless you can find a book that is JUST what you want, then you will have questions because someone will not elaborate because they assume your present skill level. heck i just asked a question about modes a few moments ago. uncle tim's building blocks was the book i was referencing. so without access to a class (or a teachers time), access to a good music store with reliable books, or a credit card, there will be questions... and listening to music... well thats just silly XD
#14
Quote by Bluesy...

I hope this can end your pointless threads about modes



I just don't get how you think starting another one, would someone how end the practice.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Dec 4, 2009,
#15
For example, if you are in the key of CM, you can use the G Lydian mode over the V Chord, which has all natural notes in it.


No. Lydian of C is F lydian. You play G mixolydian over the dominant of C.
Or you play lydian dominant. Or altered dominant. Or phrygian major even, but probably not since it's the dominant of a major key.
These more complex aspects of modal theory are why it might be good to discuss modes rather than just read about them.
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#16
Quote by TatarSalad2
And if you're in the key of C Major, you would use G Mixolydian over the V chord. G Lydian is the IV chord in the key of B Major I believe.

if you were in C major, you would be playing C major, not mixolydian. already this thread is going down hill.

TS, why would you use G lydian in a Cm key song? if the song is in Cm, you play in C minor. G lydian doesnt even really work over a G minor chord anyway.

modes are use firstly for modal music. which actually came before diatonic playing. modal songs usually only have maybe a few or a couple of chords, or maybe a pedal tone. some people like to take a mode and put it over a song that doesnt imply that mode. like playing dorian over a minor key song to change the sound. but really, thats just using accidentals. they use modes to make it easier to think about. but for the most part, if the song is in C, you play in C. when you change the chord in the song, you are still playing in C. unless you stopped on that chord. the chord would act as a pedal tone and then yes, you could say you are playing modal i suppose.
#17
Quote by DragonFlame1990
well... to be fair... this forum is about helping others with music theory, among other things... one thing i have noticed about books is that unless you can find a book that is JUST what you want, then you will have questions because someone will not elaborate because they assume your present skill level. heck i just asked a question about modes a few moments ago. uncle tim's building blocks was the book i was referencing. so without access to a class (or a teachers time), access to a good music store with reliable books, or a credit card, there will be questions... and listening to music... well thats just silly XD


I take your point, but...

If you don't have that basic knowledge of theory, take a class, read a book, use the countless questions on basic theory and questions as a guide.

If you don't have access to any of those things, you probably shouldn't be on a forum. Libraries have better books than a music store because they sell, well, music at a music store. Libraries and book stores have books.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#18
Quote by TatarSalad2
And if you're in the key of C Major, you would use G Mixolydian over the V chord. G Lydian is the IV chord in the key of B Major I believe.

G is the IV of D.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#20
Quote by Bluesy...
I take your point, but...

If you don't have that basic knowledge of theory, take a class, read a book, use the countless questions on basic theory and questions as a guide.

If you don't have access to any of those things, you probably shouldn't be on a forum. Libraries have better books than a music store because they sell, well, music at a music store. Libraries and book stores have books.

some people learn better from actual people. books are books. some explain better than others. sometimes, you can read something in a book 20 times and not get it. sometimes all it takes is one person to word it just right and then you get it. thats what forums are for. we can talk about things and ask questions and give answers and hopefully help someone. if you dont like that, leave. simple as that really. most people actually do read about the modes and still dont get it. so they come here to ask other musicians hoping to find an explaination that makes more sense.
#21
Quote by Bluesy...
I take your point, but...

If you don't have that basic knowledge of theory, take a class, read a book, use the countless questions on basic theory and questions as a guide.

If you don't have access to any of those things, you probably shouldn't be on a forum. Libraries have better books than a music store because they sell, well, music at a music store. Libraries and book stores have books.


you also have a good point, and that is what people should do for everything, try to find out yourself so you will get the entire story, then ask questions on the grey areas. but sadly people try to quick fix, either because they dont understand the vastness of the subject, or because they need to know now. and as we know, get a map and go from a to b, or go in blind and go from a, to a1, to a2, to a3... to a79234872384, to b

also, +1 on what blinded posted. i have travelled that same path many times
Last edited by DragonFlame1990 at Dec 4, 2009,
#22
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
if you were in C major, you would be playing C major, not mixolydian. already this thread is going down hill.

TS, why would you use G lydian in a Cm key song? if the song is in Cm, you play in C minor. G lydian doesnt even really work over a G minor chord anyway.

modes are use firstly for modal music. which actually came before diatonic playing. modal songs usually only have maybe a few or a couple of chords, or maybe a pedal tone. some people like to take a mode and put it over a song that doesnt imply that mode. like playing dorian over a minor key song to change the sound. but really, thats just using accidentals. they use modes to make it easier to think about. but for the most part, if the song is in C, you play in C. when you change the chord in the song, you are still playing in C. unless you stopped on that chord. the chord would act as a pedal tone and then yes, you could say you are playing modal i suppose.


Well, i don't know what TS means but

CM not cm.

MODES ARE DIFFERENT NOTE RELATIONSHIPS BASED AROUND A DIATONIC SCALE USING A TONAL SHIFT.

Quote by gwittersnamps
No. Lydian of C is F lydian. You play G mixolydian over the dominant of C.
Or you play lydian dominant. Or altered dominant. Or phrygian major even, but probably not since it's the dominant of a major key.
These more complex aspects of modal theory are why it might be good to discuss modes rather than just read about them.


The point was pointing out that the notes in G Lydian are the same notes in CM, or all of the natural notes if you will. It may not be the most practical use of the mode, but you can still use it. If you want to go into a debate about where you should use each mode, there are countless uses of each one. It all depends on what you want.

The of the thread was to end pointless Threads on modes. I have come across like eight threads with basic questions on modes in the past two days.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#23
TS = Thread Starter = You.

G Lydian does not have the same notes as C Major, because C# and F# aren't in C Major.
G Mixolydian (b7) does have the same notes though since it flattens the only accidental (F#) to a natural.
#24
Quote by Bluesy...
Well, i don't know what TS means but

CM not cm.

MODES ARE DIFFERENT NOTE RELATIONSHIPS BASED AROUND A DIATONIC SCALE USING A TONAL SHIFT.


The point was pointing out that the notes in G Lydian are the same notes in CM, or all of the natural notes if you will. It may not be the most practical use of the mode, but you can still use it. If you want to go into a debate about where you should use each mode, there are countless uses of each one. It all depends on what you want.

The of the thread was to end pointless Threads on modes. I have come across like eight threads with basic questions on modes in the past two days.


But the notes in G Lydian aren't the same notes as C Major.
#25
Quote by Bluesy...
Well, i don't know what TS means but

CM not cm.

MODES ARE DIFFERENT NOTE RELATIONSHIPS BASED AROUND A DIATONIC SCALE USING A TONAL SHIFT.


The point was pointing out that the notes in G Lydian are the same notes in CM, or all of the natural notes if you will. It may not be the most practical use of the mode, but you can still use it. If you want to go into a debate about where you should use each mode, there are countless uses of each one. It all depends on what you want.

The of the thread was to end pointless Threads on modes. I have come across like eight threads with basic questions on modes in the past two days.

Are you slow? Read the responses, please. G Mixolydian has the same notes at C major. It is the V of C, not the IV.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#26
Quote by TatarSalad2
Uh, no. In the Key of C Major, The I is C Major. The ii is D Dorian. The iii is E Phrygian. The IV is F Lydian. The V is G Mixolydian.


You right. Sorry, I'm dyslexic and a am poor at arithmetic. I can't count. That is why I am a musician. I am thinking in my head and used the C Lydian for the key of GM which has all of the notes of GM. C and G look alike kinda in my head. I am a nut. But my point is still valid. If you want, you can use the G Lydian mode (notes in DM) in the key of CM if you want to modulate and use secondary dominants and such.

Really, you shouldn't be thinking when you are playing anyway.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#27
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
Are you slow? Read the responses, please. G Mixolydian has the same notes at C major. It is the V of C, not the IV.


Yes. Yes I am. See above.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#28
Quote by Bluesy...
Well, i don't know what TS means but

it means thread starter.

CM not cm.

sorry bout that. but even then, you wouldnt use G lydian in a C major song. i mean, you could i suppose. it doesnt sound too bad. but if you are in the key of C major, you are not using G lydian. you are playing the C major scale with accidentals.

MODES ARE DIFFERENT NOTE RELATIONSHIPS BASED AROUND A DIATONIC SCALE USING A TONAL SHIFT.

you would have to change the key of the song in order to be playing modally. going from a C chord to a D chord doesnt mean you are playing C ionian and D dorian scales. you are playing the C major scale and thats it. you would have to change the song to have a dorian progression in order to be playing D dorian and not C ionian.


The point was pointing out that the notes in G Lydian are the same notes in CM, or all of the natural notes if you will. It may not be the most practical use of the mode, but you can still use it. If you want to go into a debate about where you should use each mode, there are countless uses of each one. It all depends on what you want.

i think you are thinking of G mixolydian because G lydian does not have the same nots as C major.
#29
Quote by Bluesy...
You right. Sorry, I'm dyslexic and a am poor at arithmetic. I can't count. That is why I am a musician. I am thinking in my head and used the C Lydian for the key of GM which has all of the notes of GM. C and G look alike kinda in my head. I am a nut. But my point is still valid. If you want, you can use the G Lydian mode (notes in DM) in the key of CM if you want to modulate and use secondary dominants and such.

Really, you shouldn't be thinking when you are playing anyway.

That's silly. Try telling that to a jazz player. John Coltrane wrote Giant Steps as an exercise to work his playing of the changes. Was a bad musician because he thought about what he was doing? No, he was genius because he thought about what he was doing.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#30
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
That's silly. Try telling that to a jazz player. John Coltrane wrote Giant Steps as an exercise to work his playing of the changes. Was a bad musician because he thought about what he was doing? No, he was genius because he thought about what he was doing.


I agree you should be thinking the whole time. That is, until you reach the point where you can play those things effortlessly without thinking, as the notes will come out as naturally as speech. But that requires decades of practice.
#31
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
That's silly. Try telling that to a jazz player. John Coltrane wrote Giant Steps as an exercise to work his playing of the changes. Was a bad musician because he thought about what he was doing? No, he was genius because he thought about what he was doing.


A jazz player is your example? Really? I would understand if you said a concert musician but a jazz musician? Jazz is built off of improvisation. Do you know how to play jazz? Or do you just play jazzy chords and add a melody? That is not playing jazz, there is a whole process of doing so. Coltrane probably heard something he liked while practicing and worked around it. Furthermore, you have no source. Were you there? And even if he did think about it, practicing and playing are two different things. You are supposed to think when you practice and when you compose, but when you play, just play. Any music teacher with any sense will tell you to not think when you play.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#32
Quote by timeconsumer09
I agree you should be thinking the whole time. That is, until you reach the point where you can play those things effortlessly without thinking, as the notes will come out as naturally as speech. But that requires decades of practice.


Not necessarily. I don't think when i play, i play my emotion. However i do think when i want to experiment with something and explore greater avenues toward my playing and supplement and augment my skills.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#33
Quote by Bluesy...
A jazz player is your example? Really? I would understand if you said a concert musician but a jazz musician? Jazz is built off of improvisation. Do you know how to play jazz? Or do you just play jazzy chords and add a melody? That is not playing jazz, there is a whole process of doing so. Coltrane probably heard something he liked while practicing and worked around it. Furthermore, you have no source. Were you there? And even if he did think about it, practicing and playing are two different things. You are supposed to think when you practice and when you compose, but when you play, just play. Any music teacher with any sense will tell you to not think when you play.

I'm a jazz studies major at Western Michigan University, which has one of the largest jazz programs in the United States. Yeah, I know some of my shit, thanks. I had an entire lecture about Coltrane today and the professor spent quite a while on the topic of Giant Steps. I can even link you to the notes outline if you'd like.

Coltrane was absolutely obsessed with chord progressions. He wanted to do every single melody manipulation he could over them.

I don't know why you seem to think that improvisation and thinking are mutually exclusive activities. It's dead wrong.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#34
Quote by Bluesy...
A jazz player is your example? Really? I would understand if you said a concert musician but a jazz musician? Jazz is built off of improvisation. Do you know how to play jazz? Or do you just play jazzy chords and add a melody? That is not playing jazz, there is a whole process of doing so. Coltrane probably heard something he liked while practicing and worked around it. Furthermore, you have no source. Were you there? And even if he did think about it, practicing and playing are two different things. You are supposed to think when you practice and when you compose, but when you play, just play. Any music teacher with any sense will tell you to not think when you play.

lol you cant just stop thinking. i know what you mean, but you are always thinking. yes, the idea is to "just play" and in practice you think and come up with things. but again, you are always thinking. thinking can help too. you cant practice everything. sometimes you are playing in a jam with songs you heard a couple of times, maybe never. just because you are thinking doesnt mean you cant play music or improvise. sometimes ill be jamming and think "well i know this chord is comming and i know this lick would sound nice over it" and then i do it. obviously it happens a lot faster than that. no one actually thinks things out like that.

when you hear improv, thats really what they are doing. they are piecing together little phrases and licks in a way that sounds good. there is a thought process there even still. another example, sometimes i might hit a wrong note. oops! now what? well now i have to think dont i? do i blend it in by maybe bending up to a right note? or maybe just keep playing as if nothing happened? anyways, you can still "just play" and think at the same time.
Last edited by Blind In 1 Ear at Dec 4, 2009,
#35
Japanese concept of Tzu jan. State of accepting nature in it's form and using spontaneity te enter a state of No-Mind, where the mind and the body are uninhibited by worldly evils.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

Crank the Mids
#36
Quote by Bluesy...
A jazz player is your example? Really? I would understand if you said a concert musician but a jazz musician? Jazz is built off of improvisation. Do you know how to play jazz? Or do you just play jazzy chords and add a melody? That is not playing jazz, there is a whole process of doing so. Coltrane probably heard something he liked while practicing and worked around it. Furthermore, you have no source. Were you there? And even if he did think about it, practicing and playing are two different things. You are supposed to think when you practice and when you compose, but when you play, just play. Any music teacher with any sense will tell you to not think when you play.


Go read a John Coltrane biography, that's exactly why he wrote the song. Improvisation takes practice, you don't just make stuff up. At least, that's how the jazz greats (read: masters of improvisation) did it. Read below for more info.

Quote by Bluesy...
Not necessarily. I don't think when i play, i play my emotion. However i do think when i want to experiment with something and explore greater avenues toward my playing and supplement and augment my skills.


You don't think when you play because:

1. You probably aren't very good and think that playing 'with emotion' makes you better.
2. You have have mastered the guitar.

I'm not going to say which one I think is true here... But you must build a vocabulary before you can really play without thinking. A musical vocabulary, that is. You can't just play what you hear in your head without ingraining those sounds into your muscle memory. Sure, you might feel a certain emotion, but you can only express it with the guitar if you know what you're doing. If you could just play 'with emotion', anyone could pick up a guitar and play a great improv solo.
#37
Quote by Bluesy...
Japanese concept of Tzu jan. State of accepting nature in it's form and using spontaneity te enter a state of No-Mind, where the mind and the body are uninhibited by worldly evils.

so? i thought we were talking about playing music?
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