#1
I was playing a George Harrison song called wah-wah earlier and I was trying to analyze the chord progression. The song basically goes like this:

E G#7 F#7

Fm Bm7

Fm Bm7

D E

The bridge is just A to E.

So I'm wondering, because of the flattened 7 th (D major), would this song be considered pure mixolydian? What's confusing me is the use of both F#7 and F#m. Can the ii chord be either major or minor in mixolydian?

Thanks in advance.

P. S. What confuses me about modal chord progressions is how you know what chords are major and which are minor.
#2
That progression is not modal.
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#3
Yeah, modal music doesn't really have chord progressions per se. It's usually a vamp over one or two chords.

As for finding "the chords of a mode," you would use the same principles one would use to harmonize the major or minor scale.
#4
most songs are in major or minor, dont worry about finding modal music unless youre looking at medievil music
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#5
Quote by shiner_man
So I'm wondering, because of the flattened 7 th (D major), would this song be considered pure mixolydian? What's confusing me is the use of both F#7 and F#m. Can the ii chord be either major or minor in mixolydian?

Thanks in advance.

P. S. What confuses me about modal chord progressions is how you know what chords are major and which are minor.


The ♭VII chord is very common in major keys, as a borrowed chord from the parallel minor. Chances are when you see a ♭VII chord, its not mixolydian, but it could be. If the iii is minor or the V is major, then the song definitely is major rather than mixolydian. When making modal progressions, the chords are found by stacking thirds as is done for the chords built from the major and minor scales. However, modal progressions are usually very simple, as the more complex progressions with those chords will naturally resolve to the relative major. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about modal progressions, as they come up so infrequently, and its much more important to understand diatonic (major and minor) harmony.
#6
The song is in the key of E major for the most part.

I don't really have an explanation for the G#7; if it led to C# it would be a secondary dominant (V-of-V-of-V-of-V), but it doesn't. I guess it just creates false expectations.

F#m is natural to the key of E. The F#7 is a secondary dominant.

I listened to the song and it sounds like a B7, not a Bm7.

The D is just borrowed from the relative minor.

The bridge modulates to the key of A.

Quote by Zinnie
most songs are in major or minor, dont worry about finding modal music unless youre looking at medievil music

I disagree. There's a fair amount of modality in popular music. Just not this song.
Last edited by werty22 at Dec 4, 2009,
#7
I don't know my modes thoroughly enough to give you a direct answer right off the bat, but I can explain to you how to figure it out yourself, which is better for you anyway.

First thing you should do is determine the key by looking at the chords or the notes in the chords and finding what key they fit into. Then just determine the tonal center (i.e. the emphasized note/chord/whatever).

For example, if you discover the key is C but the tonal center is D, that's dorian. E would be phrygian, etc...
#8
Quote by werty22
The song is in the key of E major for the most part.

I don't really have an explanation for the G#7; if it led to C# it would be a secondary dominant (V-of-V-of-V-of-V), but it doesn't. I guess it just creates false expectations.

F#m is natural to the key of E. The F#7 is a secondary dominant.

I listened to the song and it sounds like a B7, not a Bm7.

The D is just borrowed from the relative minor.

The bridge modulates to the key of A.


I disagree. There's a fair amount of modality in popular music. Just not this song.


You're right. It's B7 not Bm7. That was a typo.
#9
Quote by chrisweyers
I don't know my modes thoroughly enough to give you a direct answer right off the bat, but I can explain to you how to figure it out yourself, which is better for you anyway.

First thing you should do is determine the key by looking at the chords or the notes in the chords and finding what key they fit into. Then just determine the tonal center (i.e. the emphasized note/chord/whatever).

For example, if you discover the key is C but the tonal center is D, that's dorian. E would be phrygian, etc...


The key won't be C if the tonal center is D....

To find the key, first find the tonal center, and then figure out what intervals above that note are used. Typically it will be major or minor, but the odd time it will be modal.
#10
Quote by isaac_bandits
The key won't be C if the tonal center is D....

To find the key, first find the tonal center, and then figure out what intervals above that note are used. Typically it will be major or minor, but the odd time it will be modal.

By 'key' i think he ment if the notes are in C major. so he is going in reverse as what you do. He finds the notes based on the parent major, then finds the tonal center. i actaully do that too x.x haha
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#11
Quote by isaac_bandits
The key won't be C if the tonal center is D....

To find the key, first find the tonal center, and then figure out what intervals above that note are used. Typically it will be major or minor, but the odd time it will be modal.

I was wondering about this, if the song was in D Dorian would you say it was in the key of D minor, because Dorian is a minor mode, or D Dorian? Or would it not be in a key at all because modes and keys are two different systems?
#12
Quote by 12345abcd3
I was wondering about this, if the song was in D Dorian would you say it was in the key of D minor, because Dorian is a minor mode, or D Dorian? Or would it not be in a key at all because modes and keys are two different systems?

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#13
Are you sure about that? It's true for Gregorian chants and stuff, but I don't think modes and major/minor tonality are always mutually exclusive. Modal jazz has a key, doesn't it?
#14
Quote by Zinnie
By 'key' i think he ment if the notes are in C major. so he is going in reverse as what you do. He finds the notes based on the parent major, then finds the tonal center. i actaully do that too x.x haha


But that's not what key is. Key is the tonal center and whether it is major or minor. The amount of flats or sharps does not determine key.
#15
Quote by werty22
Are you sure about that? It's true for Gregorian chants and stuff, but I don't think modes and major/minor tonality are always mutually exclusive. Modal jazz has a key, doesn't it?


modal jazz ... hmmm...modes are not keys...they are scales within keys but not keys unto themselves..

D dorian is a mode within the key of C and is the second degree of that key...

play well

wolf
#16
Quote by isaac_bandits
But that's not what key is. Key is the tonal center and whether it is major or minor. The amount of flats or sharps does not determine key.

im well aware of that haha, was just tryin to clear it up
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